The price of retro hardware

[TCD]

We recently had a discussion about inflated Amiga game prices on eBay and one of the worst offenders just lowered pretty much all of their offers: https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/retropixelss

I know this isn't about hardware (and there seems to be a bit of a 'get it while you can' mentality right now), but there just might be an indication that things aren't going to sell if prices are just nuts.

[Flimbo]

Originally Posted by TCD

We recently had a discussion about inflated Amiga game prices on eBay and one of the worst offenders just lowered pretty much all of their offers: https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/retropixelss

I know this isn't about hardware (and there seems to be a bit of a 'get it while you can' mentality right now), but there just might be an indication that things aren't going to sell if prices are just nuts.

Obviously demand is a key driver for prices but many of these bigger ebay traders have artificially driven up the prices in my opinion. I have gotten to know some of these people, mainly in the Sega Game Gear market, and their prices are hugely inflated on ebay compared to the prices they offer me privately. Some of this is due to the ebay charges etc but I reckon in most instances they are just hoping to inflate the market. This is especially true for rarer items, where they have gathered multiple copies and control most of that market. Guess it is just business for them (and maybe some of you) but it is brutal for collectors. I have every retro device wired up and ready to play, they are not display items and they are not a commodity I plan to sell whilst I am alive. But each to their own.

[Anubis]

Is SuperFrog really worth 85 pounds??

I have not noticed much of price drop here for either hardware or software.

Local Play and Trade actually got even more expensive, but I think it is just BS from owner.... They even sell C64 MAXI now for $200, while you can still get one from Amazon for $130?!

[RetroPassionUK]

Originally Posted by Leon Besson

Unfortunately Bromigos! It’s NOT the old guard which are demanding the high prices these days. It’s the resellers who have cottoned on that anything with a Commodore or Amiga badge slapped on it demands a high price.
Have heard a certain one who donates on here has tried it on in the past with EBay sellers by
Tempting to buy peoples Amiga stuff really low and then flogging it high!
The only way to get prices lowered is not to pay the prices. Also with the cost of living crisis kicking in around the world. I don’t think people will have the spare monies to spend on such luxuries soon. So the prices may have to come down for those who sell to make a living.

You have a PM ;-)

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Anubis

Is SuperFrog really worth 85 pounds??

Superfrog is worth 4 bucks, because that's what the ROMs cost you. The rest you can get for free and even Team 17 won't sue you. If you need a physical thingy though things get way more compicated

[Leon Besson]

Originally Posted by RetroPassionUK

You have a PM ;-)

Have read it Mang! Too paranoid Bromigo!

[Leon Besson]

Originally Posted by Flimbo

Obviously demand is a key driver for prices but many of these bigger ebay traders have artificially driven up the prices in my opinion. I have gotten to know some of these people, mainly in the Sega Game Gear market, and their prices are hugely inflated on ebay compared to the prices they offer me privately. Some of this is due to the ebay charges etc but I reckon in most instances they are just hoping to inflate the market. This is especially true for rarer items, where they have gathered multiple copies and control most of that market. Guess it is just business for them (and maybe some of you) but it is brutal for collectors. I have every retro device wired up and ready to play, they are not display items and they are not a commodity I plan to sell whilst I am alive. But each to their own.

Too true Bromigo! I remember you could buy a A1200 Motherboard recapped on EBay for roughly £100. Thanks to the likes of Analogic who keep selling boards and then inflate the prices for the next lot they sell. Last time I looked they wanted £400! For a so called recapped A1200 board!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165522976...mis&media=COPY

No wonder prices are what they are

[Havie]

Gone are the days of finding an A1200 for £20 at a boot sale.

[RetroPassionUK]

Originally Posted by Leon Besson

Have read it Mang! Too paranoid Bromigo!

That's is what people say when they have been caught out. As I say if you have any questions on how the business works or have suggestions just ask us/let us know directly rather listening to hearsay, people just see the shop front and not aware of what actually goes on in the background and that's because people don't and then make assumptions or inflate something that actually if you look at the facts it was something small or non existent, simply some people like a drama and yes the the retro community is full of them.

What I will say generally about the cost of retro gear having been involved with the community for around 20 years, a community that has shot up in numbers I must say and still growing, it's simple, it's supply and demand. I purchased 2 x A1200 with blizzards 030 back in 2001 for £100 for both, sold them I think for £100 each, no recapping, no ultrasonic cleaning, no soak testing and no warranty and not even cleaned. An A500 for £10 sold for £20 and so on.

Now let's compare this to classic cars, a Ford XR3i for example, in 2001 they ranged from a few hundred to low thousands for a low milage well looked after example, today your talking low thousands for one that needs work or 10k plus for one that has been serviced and in good condition.
also take into account inflation, £100 in 2001 was £149 in 2021, 2022 it's now £163. let's not talk about wages and disposable income or the recession (2007).

So people have a choice, buy a unit to do up and pay for it to be recapped, serviced or buy one that has had a full service from top to bottom, with a warranty and a business not going anywhere. it's no different to buying a car privately or one from a car dealer, people are paying for company time and expertise, like I do when I need someone to fix the boiler or a car.

Also to point out, registered UK companies pay UK corporation tax and the HMRC (VAT) also gets a cut every 3 months, that unfortunately comes with running a company and the same for other commercial entities in the retro business and that's only 2 of the costs of running a business!

There are benefits of being a company and there are benefits of not being one, however it is far to easy for HMRC to look at transactions via payment gateways (of which one we all know and is widely used does actively monitor transactions and i'm sure we have seen a limit put in place and the limit is not lifted until to explain what the account is being used for) this can be fed back to HMRC if they request it. So it's best to be a company with no worries or get a letter a few years down the line asking for a tax payment on items you sold in forums, ebay and facebook as there is always a trail left no matter how many years have passed.


Anyway, supply and demand is the core of commerce and has been for hundreds of years and affects every single thing we purchase from houses to tap washers :-)

And I know for a fact this same conversation is happening in every other hobby or interest groups people have and will do forever :-)

[dreadnought]

Originally Posted by RetroPassionUK

Anyway, supply and demand is the core of commerce and has been for hundreds of years and affects every single thing we purchase from houses to tap washers :-)

Sorry, but this tired trope is a huge oversimplification, and you, of all people should know better. "The commerce" has changed hugely since the arrival of online marketplaces, and also the collectors markets are somewhat peculiar and the supply and demand doesn't work entirely the same for them as in the traditional sectors.

So, now anybody with a web connection can be a speculector from the comfort of their home and try whatever they can to manipulate the market to their advantage. It's super easy, and greed is in human nature, so people do just that. It costs you nothing to pump up your BIN prices and see maybe somebody bites, then drop them a little, oh, now it's a discount! Still didn't sell? Why not throw in some mangy manual, old joystick, a few floppies to accompany your lone A500 because now you can say L@@K AN AMAZING BUNDLE! with 200% the price of what you'd ask for it separately.

This style preys on the collector mentality because it's a little bit like drug addiction and a lot of people will pay silly prices just to get that particular item they've been lusting after or just add more to their hoard. Others get caught in the crossfire: I was lucky to get my A500 3 years ago for about 80E, before the prices skyrocketed. Now I'd have to cough up multiples of that probably, and it's not like one can say "I'm not gonna pay!" because what are you going to do? Build one?

[jbenam]

Originally Posted by Havie

Gone are the days of finding an A1200 for £20 at a boot sale.

Mainly because of some people that scoured every boot sale / flea market in the hope of reselling some other people's trash with a huge markup.

I remember being able to go to flea markets at around 10-11am with some friends and still being able to find some retro deals. Then we couldn't, but we could see people with bags full of retro leaving while we were just arriving. So we thought we could beat them and started going at 7am, and that way, for a short while we could still find some good retro deals.

Then we started seeing people leaving at 7 FREAKING AM with bags full of retro. After a short walk, it was clear that they had sweeped the place clean. Everything that they thought could be resold, was gone. So we just stopped going. It was clear that whoever was doing this was willing to go to lengths we couldn't be bothered to keep up with. We were just doing this for fun, and had other, more pressing things to do with our lives than wake up at 4am just to hope to score a few retro deals.

These people ruined the fun of retro computing for me and my friends. We loved going together every Sunday and see what rare or weird retro stuff we could find.

Before this happened we could have a very niche hobby that didn't cost us a lung and half. We could go every Sunday knowing that we could find something cool or nice for peanuts to bring home and play with and brighten up our weekend.

Then the scalpers came and ruined everything. Just because a handful of people wanted to turn this into a "job", they ruined the fun for everyone else.

[LeCaravage]

I have no idea how is the market worldwide going, but in France the prices for Amigas hardware are growing insanely big : 250 euros for an untested Amiga 500 found buyers (1 year back it was 130-150 euros).
Not helped by the youtube videos of famous french repair man, who comment clas. ads in their live video as "250 euros amiga" as "normal prices". Crazy.
I'm no specialist, but I suspect the prizes will continue to inflate. The coming economic crisis will not help.

In all, if you count the price of purchase, shipping fees, sending the Amiga via postageand to repair man, price of repair, pieces replacement, it becomes high, very high.

[jbenam]

Originally Posted by LeCaravage

Not helped by the youtube videos of famous french repair man, who comment clas. ads in their live video as "250 euros amiga" as "normal prices". Crazy.

These people have interest in letting the public think that a broken Amiga goes for that much. They can then resell Amigas repaired by them at double the price. They are killing the Amiga hobby for the rest of us and they don't care one single bit as long as they can turn a profit.

[Flimbo]

Nothing beats the thrill of finding that retro item dirt cheap out there in the wild. That said, you can't deny that the likes of ebay etc provide a function for collectors. We would never find that sought after item without it. These retro businesses also provide a function. A few years ago you could buy nothing for a Sega Game Gear and these days you can modify every aspect of it at increasingly cheaper prices.

[jbenam]

Originally Posted by Flimbo

These retro businesses also provide a function. A few years ago you could buy nothing for a Sega Game Gear and these days you can modify every aspect of it at increasingly cheaper prices.

Offering services and getting paid for your time? Perfectly fine.
Creating new products and getting paid for your knowledge? Absolutely fine.

Finding something for $20 and putting it on eBay for $400? What has this guy/gal done to warrant 380$ for his/her time? Nothing. Did he/she have to sail seven seas, climb the highest mountain and fight lions to get this Amiga? Absolutely not. He/she probably found someone somewhere selling it on the cheap and thought "let's make a quick buck by putting this on eBay at an absurdly high price, some fool will most certainly part with his/her money".

And that's what is killing this market. The horribly high and unwarranted "finder's fees".

[acidbottle]

Its a roller coaster ride of a hobby to get into, retro gaming.

Thankfully, gear like the Terrible Fire cards and Vampires do drive original hardware prices down, though with no 3rd party Amiga about (unless you count the mini) the base unit will still demand high prices. Games are hit and miss, all dependant on current trends and who is about at the time of auction! Had some utter bargains in recent times, only to find the same item a week or 2 later to be twice or thrice the price all of a suddenly.

Have a number of items that I have been watching on ebay for several years, no offers allowed and they are sat there waiting to be sold. I guess some folk never bother to valuate and pick the first price they see as their benchmark, or they actually promised their other half to sell and secretly do not want to part with said items

The cost of living will dent pockets considerably, so can see a general trend of prices remaining as they are. There will always be someone with a bottomless pocket to dig funds from sadly.

[Leon Besson]

Originally Posted by RetroPassionUK

That's is what people say when they have been caught out.

What that you are Paranoid Bromigo?! Just remember that you are the one who has just outed themselves on here. I didn’t mention you by name.

Originally Posted by RetroPassionUK

having been involved with the community for around 20 years

Have you now Bromigo?! Not seen much in terms of contribution in helping others on here? Seen a lot of I’ve got this for sale etc… But no actual technical help (free) to be given. Do you know what you are doing with Amigas? I’m Interested in your electronics credentials as well. Professional electronics major? Degree in electronics? Etc…? people I’ve use for recapping/repair work have these.

One primary example is this thread; http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=111308&page=3

And nooooo I won’t be using the 5% off for doing the customer support work for you

Seen a lot of YouTube influencers being given loads of Bucks to shout out how great you are as well as you donate on here. So either you are just trying to help the community out with throwing money at it, or you are paranoid that there are other resellers out there which can also provide the same services as you do albeit cheaper? Also when I used to lurk on here in the past, have seen plenty of disgruntled people talking about you. Funnily enough these have disappeared? I take it being a Donator on here gives you special privileges with the Mods then?

Remember Bromigos! There are more than just one Amiga reseller out there which everyone has a chance to use. This maybe why things get out of hand in the resale market as well?

Note, I’m not trying to flame RetropassionUK here, but I’m very suspect of why this company keeps coming up time and time again as the best thing out there and doesn’t make mistakes?
Is this company a Bot?

[Jope]

Nah, there is no conspiracy, at least here on EAB. I have seen some critics get banned after replying time and time again with the same anecdotes and not listening when moderators asked to let it go.

That doesn't imply that criticism is denied, it just means that sometimes it goes far enough to no longer be constructive, and people need to understand when they're told that enough is enough.

[Leon Besson]

Originally Posted by Jope

Nah, there is no conspiracy, at least here on EAB. I have seen some critics get banned after replying time and time again with the same anecdotes and not listening when moderators asked to let it go.

That doesn't imply that criticism is denied, it just means that sometimes it goes far enough to no longer be constructive, and people need to understand when they're told that enough is enough.

Now that is what a conformist would say

I am being constructive Bromigo! Remember the truth is out there! And maybe some cheap Amiga parts as well

[jbenam]

Originally Posted by Leon Besson

I’m Interested in your electronics credentials as well. Professional electronics major? Degree in electronics? Etc…?

Having a degree doesn't imply that you're good with a soldering iron Sure, you can read the schematics and know what an inductance is, but what good comes from that, if you lift tracks and/or do horrible cold joints everywhere?

Practice and experience goes a long way when it comes to retro repairs. Building new hardware, well, that's where a degree/major comes in handy... And even so, I have seen hobbyists build amazing things starting from literally nothing.