An idea to finally decide the best Amiga game?

11 March 2004, 08:07

Yes...it's another long Jim post....

Intro......

Nobody's ever going to agree on what the best Amiga game ever made was, and most people have a hard time thinking what their favourite game is. What is "Our" (the active EAB community's) favourite game????? I dunno....maybe Sensible Soccer.......but has it ever been really decided?

The usual "vote for you fave game" or "choose your best 10 games" polls don't seem to satisfy the majority of us with their results. And they're pretty dull most of the time. You click a button and then several weeks later see a chart. ZZZzzzZZZzzz

Now with the usual polls people are only voting for one game and if their interest is towards a game that others don't find that hot then their "vote" is effectively wasted. If they don't like football games they have no say in who is the best out of Sensible Soccer or Kick Off as they won't vote for either of them.

However if they were polled with only 2 choices....If they have to choose between 2 games they both hate they will probably choose the better one, not to hard a task. But when it comes to 2 games you love you will also have to pick your favourite. A slightly more taxing thought.

Now onto the idea......

I was thinking maybe organsing a kind of knock-out competition to decide the best game. Kind of like how the Football (Soccer) World Cup works with scores, groups, quarter finals etc..... When you vote for you 1 game (out of 2) that scores a "goal", and these votes get collated so you could have a result like Lemmings 30 - Shadow Of The Beast II 25, and thus the league position would be:

Code:

                P  W  D  L  F   A   GD
Lemmings        1  1  0  0  30  25  5
ShadowBeastII   1  0  0  1  25  30 -5

Obviously there would be many groups and many games (teams) in each group.

This sort of thing could probably run for months if there are many "matches" to be played as we'd need to allow a certain amount of time for each match (maybe a week) so all people interested could get a chance to participate. This would also allow new members/infrequent visitors to contribute as and when they want as there'd always be some matches being played.

Obviously in the early group stages matches could run concurrently.

The initial task would be getting people to shortlist/nominate games - kind of like a qualification stage if you like.

A method I thought of would be to allow every member to nominate 10 games. And then after all nominations are recieved allow every member to nominate another 10 games (this is to avoid the "Oh I forgot to nominate X game") when they see others have nominated it.

Obviously the more popular of games (in the nominations) would need to be seeded so they don't play off against each other in the early stages and some good method of collating the nominations would need to be done.

I see this as fair a way of deciding "our" favourite game, and also a good chance for people to fire up 2 old games they probably have never player (or played a long time ago) to decide which is the best.

For some there will be dissapointments when their game is "elmininated" but then the key element is they will still be able to help decide the eventual winner.

Some ruthless folks could even try staging upsets to knock out a big contender early - it would all be part of the fun, and I am sure that we would all be able to agree that the eventual winner was worthy of the crown, even if we can't all agree that it is the best.

Don't list/nominate anything now, I just want to get a measure of the level of interest as to if this is a good idea or any other suggestions.

CodyJarrett · 11 March 2004, 11:19

It'd be fun, but I reckon it will be seen more as a opportunity for game zealots to fix the voting and get their favourite to win than as something which is done for the competition itself.

The title of the thread doesn't help matters much - "An idea to finally decide the best Amiga game?". Playing the game is the thing, not the end result!

the wolf · 11 March 2004, 13:14

I think it's quite impossible to declare THE BEST Amiga game(s), as the best game for me, can be the worst for hundreds people out there... and there are plenty games worthing the mention of "The Best" or "One of The Best".
Could be interesting, yes, but IMHO it's only a waste of time.

BippyM · 11 March 2004, 16:42

I think he means as a "group" consensus.. not what MY fave game is but what the EABs fave game is

the wolf · 11 March 2004, 17:50

Quote:

Originally posted by bippym
I think he means as a "group" consensus.. not what MY fave game is but what the EABs fave game is

Of course, I know this... but let me say the result could be only approximate, and involves a part of EAB members, not the totality...
However, doesn't matter what I think, the poll can starts and I'll vote anyway... but only for curiosity...

Dizzy · 11 March 2004, 18:17

I would say it would be a big job Jim.

Members of EAB: 1,211

If 1/2 of them nominate 20 game (10 + 10) it would mean you would have to look through 12110 entries.

If 3/4 of them are the same you'll end up with 3027 diff games.

Put up against each other meaning

Round 1 : 1513 votes

Round 2 : 756 votes

Round 3: 378 votes

Round 4: 189 votes

round 5: 94 votes

Round 6: 47 votes

Round 7: 23 votes

Round 8: 11 votes

Round 9: 5 votes

Round 10: 2 votes

Round 11: 1 votes and now you'll have the winner

It will give you 3019 votes....

A better idea would be to let people give scores the the games in HOL, then the game with the highest score is the best game

Enverex · 11 March 2004, 18:56

Actually it wont as only about 30 of that 1.2k people are active.

13 March 2004, 03:26

The polls say 4-3 against the idea at the moment. So part of me thinks "Yes, the idea was crap - scrap the thread". But it still is pretty even. So if the next person votes against I won´t bother otherwise I will wait for a moe convincing score against.

Djay · 13 March 2004, 03:53

ok, how about this.....

each member must 10 games as their favourites, then post the said 10, however they must NOT change their mind (this may encourage against choosing 10 very quickly)...

you must respond with a certain time frame, i.e. you must post your top 10 within 2 weeks of the thread opening...

each game gets 1 point each time it is mentioned, members must select 10 different games

so...

you would have by the end of two weeks a list of games... total up the points you would then have a top list

i hope that sounds simple

13 March 2004, 04:01

Too late!

It´s 3 for a good idea, 5 for a crap idea....

So I go with the crap idea..

Oh well !

Freakyweakywoo · 12 November 2004, 12:34

I might have the fix to the nominations problem. I still have a list of all the games that were nominated for each of my Hall of fame threads, and so does the forum come to think of it. If you were to do it and you needed help I'd be happy to lend a hand. Its a huge task though. Someone said it was a waste of time, of course it is but I like wasting time.

12 November 2004, 13:51

I don't think it is a good idea to decide the best amiga game. We in fact are not choosing the best games, just the most popular ones amongst eabers. Of course majority's decision matters but many times we've seen on polls that not always the best game wins against a more popular one. If I give an example many will not agree but I'm sure everyone had a least favourite poll result.

12 November 2004, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freakyweakywoo

I might have the fix to the nominations problem. I still have a list of all the games that were nominated for each of my Hall of fame threads, and so does the forum come to think of it. If you were to do it and you needed help I'd be happy to lend a hand. Its a huge task though. Someone said it was a waste of time, of course it is but I like wasting time.

I'm sure working together something could be done. I can organise the initial thing, provide the technical stuff such as league sorting, fixture sorting etc... and we both work on logging the results/nominations.

I agree the best place to start would be with the nominations from your poll, and maybe the top 5 in each year would be the seeded games. And to simplify selection of further contendors we ask for say 20 volunteers, and ask them to list x number of additional games each.

We would need to speak to RCK about a temporary forum section maybe, as with a poll for each match things would get crowded.

I know there is no fix-all solution for deciding the best game(s), it's impossible but this way to me seems fairer for 1 main reason.

For example with the most recent FreakyWeakyWoo poll there is a lot of Turrican 2 fans, but that is all we know. It is largely the Turrican 2 fans VS The Rest Of The Board (who could be people who hate T2, have never played it, or rank it highly but not as high as say...Lemmings). The T2 fans all vote for Turrican 2, the other folks all spread their votes across many games. The result is that T2 wins. I don't think it should be that easy to win. If T2 had to beat head-on several other popular games then it would be a far more prestigious & meaningful accolade to be declared "Best game".

I did notice that the poll has now adjusted 1 in this ideas faviour !

spiff · 12 November 2004, 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burseg

I don't think it is a good idea to decide the best amiga game. We in fact are not choosing the best games, just the most popular ones amongst eabers.

yup.. I agree.
And the fact that it's almost always a game from around 91-93 when most ppl used their a500. Games from around that time has had the biggest exposure, while say Battlesquadron was missed out by a lot of folks.
Then there’s the best VS the first argument. Superskidmarks was the best version, but I just played the a500 skidmarks so that’s what I would vote for.

And besides, any game going up against speedball2, turrican2 and SWOS would get a worse start then those who didnt.

Freakyweakywoo · 18 November 2004, 14:29

Ok Jim, once the Hall of Fame's for each of the amiga years are done we should have a nice big list of nominations. Its a big project, but I thinks its worth a shot.

18 November 2004, 14:51

Yes, a classic "match" would be Secret Of Monkey Island vs Turrican 2. Notice how now the poll has quitened down, maybe everybody who wanted to vote has voted now - or people realise it's a race between these two and are not intereseted ?

In this example I would have voted Monkey Island over Turrican 2 - maybe others would too? My vote for Lemmings in your 1991 poll is now irrelevant and is effictevely wasted now these 2 have a commanding lead. With it working like my idea in this thread it would save this from happening.

Yes - it is a lot of work, but still think it is the fairest/best(?) way.

Hillsy_ · 18 November 2004, 23:02

Jim, Secret of Monkey Islands & Turrican II can never be compared because they are completely different games.

Super Skidmarks, Skidmarks or anything Skidmarks related was just diabolical.
Buggy rubbish that should never have been released.

Game preferences are so varied between people, nobody can say which is the best Amiga game. I suppose the only real way would be to have access to the Amiga sales figures for each game sold, but does that even warrant the best game? No...because it is the best selling Amiga game. Are they the same? No...because sometimes word of mouth passes around and people buy utter rubbish. Hype!! Yes, gaming hype. Such as Doom 3, Half-Life, Black & white and Fable - not commenting about these..

Game Series....Yes, Turrican was great, Turrican II was great too, Turrican III was ok too, would I include all of them...No... Would I include a game which set the standard for the genre - Turrican....or go with what some people consider the superior sequel.

There's passionate and too passionate. Jim m8, you have too much time on your hands!!

All formats had great games, let them be...

As a EAB member, I wouldn't want to vote for my best Amiga game because I feel it is impossible. What would be interesting is, what the new generation of gaming people thought of the Amiga games. Why? Hmmm...because if a game is good then it should stand the test of time....

Now where have I heard that before?

Gameplay over Graphics....becoming more of an issue everyday!!

Take it easy,

- Hillsy.

PS: I know I went off subject alittle....and I understand that it is only suppose to be open to the EAB community...

Shatterhand · 19 November 2004, 05:07

If this is really going to be done...

In msx.org they did something similar sometime ago, but instead of choosing between 2 games, you had 3 points do distribute between the games

So, say, if you had Turrican 2 x Monkey Island, and you love both games, but think Monkey Island is a little better, you could vote T2=1 x 2=Monkey Island

Now, if it was a contend between, say, Akira and Speedball 2, everyone would be voting Speedball 2=3 x 0=Akira

It could be even 5 points instead of 3....

killergorilla · 19 November 2004, 05:20

So what exactly is wrong with the "best of xxxx" year polls that FreakyWeakyWoo does every now and then? Surely they are perfect for leading up to "THE BEST AMIGA GAME"?

If not then, no, it's not worth it. I will vote for Freaky's because it's damn fun but another all you can vote for poll is tripe.

killergorilla · 19 November 2004, 05:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hillsy_

Jim, Secret of Monkey Islands & Turrican II can never be compared because they are completely different games.

Sorry to double post but I'm a little drunk so can't figure out how to add this to the last message! maybe tomorrow!

Anyway... it's entirely reasonable to compare the two. Yeah they may be entirely different but it's what you prefer not how similar they are to compare.

It's in no way irrational. I've never understood why people can say that in the circumstances such as voting for a fave game, it's not fair to compare x to y. It's all about faves! When it comes to reviews then maybe you can't compare x to y but that's not what we are lookin at.

View Poll Results: Is this a good idea, do you want to see this?
Good idea - let's see it happen!	8	53.33%
What a crap idea. Who needs another poll?	7	46.67%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

11 March 2004, 08:07	#1
Jim Posts: n/a	An idea to finally decide the best Amiga game? Yes...it's another long Jim post.... Intro...... Nobody's ever going to agree on what the best Amiga game ever made was, and most people have a hard time thinking what their favourite game is. What is "Our" (the active EAB community's) favourite game????? I dunno....maybe Sensible Soccer.......but has it ever been really decided? The usual "vote for you fave game" or "choose your best 10 games" polls don't seem to satisfy the majority of us with their results. And they're pretty dull most of the time. You click a button and then several weeks later see a chart. ZZZzzzZZZzzz Now with the usual polls people are only voting for one game and if their interest is towards a game that others don't find that hot then their "vote" is effectively wasted. If they don't like football games they have no say in who is the best out of Sensible Soccer or Kick Off as they won't vote for either of them. However if they were polled with only 2 choices....If they have to choose between 2 games they both hate they will probably choose the better one, not to hard a task. But when it comes to 2 games you love you will also have to pick your favourite. A slightly more taxing thought. Now onto the idea...... I was thinking maybe organsing a kind of knock-out competition to decide the best game. Kind of like how the Football (Soccer) World Cup works with scores, groups, quarter finals etc..... When you vote for you 1 game (out of 2) that scores a "goal", and these votes get collated so you could have a result like Lemmings 30 - Shadow Of The Beast II 25, and thus the league position would be: Code: P W D L F A GD Lemmings 1 1 0 0 30 25 5 ShadowBeastII 1 0 0 1 25 30 -5 Obviously there would be many groups and many games (teams) in each group. This sort of thing could probably run for months if there are many "matches" to be played as we'd need to allow a certain amount of time for each match (maybe a week) so all people interested could get a chance to participate. This would also allow new members/infrequent visitors to contribute as and when they want as there'd always be some matches being played. Obviously in the early group stages matches could run concurrently. The initial task would be getting people to shortlist/nominate games - kind of like a qualification stage if you like. A method I thought of would be to allow every member to nominate 10 games. And then after all nominations are recieved allow every member to nominate another 10 games (this is to avoid the "Oh I forgot to nominate X game") when they see others have nominated it. Obviously the more popular of games (in the nominations) would need to be seeded so they don't play off against each other in the early stages and some good method of collating the nominations would need to be done. I see this as fair a way of deciding "our" favourite game, and also a good chance for people to fire up 2 old games they probably have never player (or played a long time ago) to decide which is the best. For some there will be dissapointments when their game is "elmininated" but then the key element is they will still be able to help decide the eventual winner. Some ruthless folks could even try staging upsets to knock out a big contender early - it would all be part of the fun, and I am sure that we would all be able to agree that the eventual winner was worthy of the crown, even if we can't all agree that it is the best. Don't list/nominate anything now, I just want to get a measure of the level of interest as to if this is a good idea or any other suggestions.

18 November 2004, 23:02	#17
Hillsy_ Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: West Yorkshire, UK Age: 51 Posts: 257	Jim, Secret of Monkey Islands & Turrican II can never be compared because they are completely different games. Super Skidmarks, Skidmarks or anything Skidmarks related was just diabolical. Buggy rubbish that should never have been released. Game preferences are so varied between people, nobody can say which is the best Amiga game. I suppose the only real way would be to have access to the Amiga sales figures for each game sold, but does that even warrant the best game? No...because it is the best selling Amiga game. Are they the same? No...because sometimes word of mouth passes around and people buy utter rubbish. Hype!! Yes, gaming hype. Such as Doom 3, Half-Life, Black & white and Fable - not commenting about these.. Game Series....Yes, Turrican was great, Turrican II was great too, Turrican III was ok too, would I include all of them...No... Would I include a game which set the standard for the genre - Turrican....or go with what some people consider the superior sequel. There's passionate and too passionate. Jim m8, you have too much time on your hands!! All formats had great games, let them be... As a EAB member, I wouldn't want to vote for my best Amiga game because I feel it is impossible. What would be interesting is, what the new generation of gaming people thought of the Amiga games. Why? Hmmm...because if a game is good then it should stand the test of time.... Now where have I heard that before? Gameplay over Graphics....becoming more of an issue everyday!! Take it easy, - Hillsy. PS: I know I went off subject alittle....and I understand that it is only suppose to be open to the EAB community... Last edited by Hillsy_; 20 November 2004 at 02:22.

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11 March 2004, 11:19	#2
CodyJarrett Global Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: UK Age: 46 Posts: 6,160	It'd be fun, but I reckon it will be seen more as a opportunity for game zealots to fix the voting and get their favourite to win than as something which is done for the competition itself. The title of the thread doesn't help matters much - "An idea to finally decide the best Amiga game?". Playing the game is the thing, not the end result!

11 March 2004, 13:14	#3
the wolf Just Leeching Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Italy Age: 52 Posts: 416	I think it's quite impossible to declare THE BEST Amiga game(s), as the best game for me, can be the worst for hundreds people out there... and there are plenty games worthing the mention of "The Best" or "One of The Best". Could be interesting, yes, but IMHO it's only a waste of time.

11 March 2004, 16:42	#4
BippyM Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 48 Posts: 9,355	I think he means as a "group" consensus.. not what MY fave game is but what the EABs fave game is

11 March 2004, 18:17	#6
Dizzy Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 3,395	I would say it would be a big job Jim. Members of EAB: 1,211 If 1/2 of them nominate 20 game (10 + 10) it would mean you would have to look through 12110 entries. If 3/4 of them are the same you'll end up with 3027 diff games. Put up against each other meaning Round 1 : 1513 votes Round 2 : 756 votes Round 3: 378 votes Round 4: 189 votes round 5: 94 votes Round 6: 47 votes Round 7: 23 votes Round 8: 11 votes Round 9: 5 votes Round 10: 2 votes Round 11: 1 votes and now you'll have the winner It will give you 3019 votes.... A better idea would be to let people give scores the the games in HOL, then the game with the highest score is the best game

11 March 2004, 18:56	#7
Enverex Fantasy Man! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,353	Actually it wont as only about 30 of that 1.2k people are active.

13 March 2004, 03:26	#8
Jim Posts: n/a	The polls say 4-3 against the idea at the moment. So part of me thinks "Yes, the idea was crap - scrap the thread". But it still is pretty even. So if the next person votes against I won´t bother otherwise I will wait for a moe convincing score against.

13 March 2004, 03:53	#9
Djay 95th User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Brighton/UK Age: 48 Posts: 3,120	ok, how about this..... each member must 10 games as their favourites, then post the said 10, however they must NOT change their mind (this may encourage against choosing 10 very quickly)... you must respond with a certain time frame, i.e. you must post your top 10 within 2 weeks of the thread opening... each game gets 1 point each time it is mentioned, members must select 10 different games so... you would have by the end of two weeks a list of games... total up the points you would then have a top list i hope that sounds simple

13 March 2004, 04:01	#10
Jim Posts: n/a	Too late! It´s 3 for a good idea, 5 for a crap idea.... So I go with the crap idea.. Oh well !

12 November 2004, 12:34	#11
Freakyweakywoo (c) killergorilla 2007 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: United States Posts: 276	I might have the fix to the nominations problem. I still have a list of all the games that were nominated for each of my Hall of fame threads, and so does the forum come to think of it. If you were to do it and you needed help I'd be happy to lend a hand. Its a huge task though. Someone said it was a waste of time, of course it is but I like wasting time.

12 November 2004, 13:51	#12
oldpx Posts: n/a	I don't think it is a good idea to decide the best amiga game. We in fact are not choosing the best games, just the most popular ones amongst eabers. Of course majority's decision matters but many times we've seen on polls that not always the best game wins against a more popular one. If I give an example many will not agree but I'm sure everyone had a least favourite poll result.

18 November 2004, 14:29	#15
Freakyweakywoo (c) killergorilla 2007 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: United States Posts: 276	Ok Jim, once the Hall of Fame's for each of the amiga years are done we should have a nice big list of nominations. Its a big project, but I thinks its worth a shot.

18 November 2004, 14:51	#16
Jim Posts: n/a	Yes, a classic "match" would be Secret Of Monkey Island vs Turrican 2. Notice how now the poll has quitened down, maybe everybody who wanted to vote has voted now - or people realise it's a race between these two and are not intereseted ? In this example I would have voted Monkey Island over Turrican 2 - maybe others would too? My vote for Lemmings in your 1991 poll is now irrelevant and is effictevely wasted now these 2 have a commanding lead. With it working like my idea in this thread it would save this from happening. Yes - it is a lot of work, but still think it is the fairest/best(?) way.

19 November 2004, 05:07	#18
Shatterhand Warhasneverbeensomuchfun Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Rio de Janeiro / Brazil Age: 41 Posts: 3,450	If this is really going to be done... In msx.org they did something similar sometime ago, but instead of choosing between 2 games, you had 3 points do distribute between the games So, say, if you had Turrican 2 x Monkey Island, and you love both games, but think Monkey Island is a little better, you could vote T2=1 x 2=Monkey Island Now, if it was a contend between, say, Akira and Speedball 2, everyone would be voting Speedball 2=3 x 0=Akira It could be even 5 points instead of 3....

19 November 2004, 05:20	#19
killergorilla Lesser Talent Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 7,957	So what exactly is wrong with the "best of xxxx" year polls that FreakyWeakyWoo does every now and then? Surely they are perfect for leading up to "THE BEST AMIGA GAME"? If not then, no, it's not worth it. I will vote for Freaky's because it's damn fun but another all you can vote for poll is tripe.

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