AmigaOS: Why is the Installer not copied during install?

[slaapliedje]

I've always wondered why I'm always needing to copy the Installer from the install disk after a fresh install of AmigaOS? Would have been nice if they fixed this during the upgrade to 3.2.

One of the main reasons I think this would be nice, is older installers have a bug in them where if the hard disk partition size is too big, it complains there isn't enough space to install.

Try installing AsimCDFS on a larger partition, and it'll complain there is -#### disk space. The work around is to change the install-english script to point to 'Installer' on the hard drive, as then it can use the newer one... assuming you've copied it over from the Install disk, which the installation method doesn't do.

It's also basically required for anything you download online, as most of them don't include 'c/Installer'.

Anyhow, just wondering if there is an historical reason for this?

[Daedalus]

It is copied; it ends up in SYS:System, just like in 3.1.4. Which is slightly confusing and could potentially cause issues with multiple different versions on upgraded installations because in 3.5, 3.9 and 4.1 it's stored in SYS:Utilities.

Prior to 3.5 it wasn't copied over at all, and the reason for that was that it was expected that software developers would include a copy of Installer on their installation media. It was free to do that, but officially required a licence from Commodore IIRC, which meant not everyone did it (and obtaining a licence was made more difficult when Commodore went under). Including the Installer meant that you were guaranteed that the script had the required version of the installer utility, since many features were added over the different releases, and many scripts use these features.

And this is where the c/Installer path comes from - it matches the installation media the software was originally distributed on, and wasn't intended to be used in any other way. The problem you have is that it doesn't make sense from a hard drive because for that path to work, you would need to unpack the archive on the sys: partition. Even if you had Installer in C:, if you tried to run that script from Work: or RAM:, it wouldn't find the Installer tool.

For software intended to be unpacked and installed from the Amiga's hard drive, the script default tool should be set to "Installer". Not "C:Installer", not ":c/Installer", not "c/Installer", just "Installer".

[Minuous]

@slaapliedje:

You are right, it should be in SYS:Utilities. I have added an issue in the bug tracker so we don't forget to fix it for the next update.

[slaapliedje]

Originally Posted by Minuous

@slaapliedje:

You are right, it should be in SYS:Utilities. I have added an issue in the bug tracker so we don't forget to fix it for the next update.

Awesome. Well, not awesome, but on the one hand it is nice to be right, on the other hand, sucks that I found a bug.

It's funny, when I got 3.1.4 I started building step by step thing to make sure I had everything in place to make a fresh install easy... then BetterWB came along, so I didn't actually need to finish that.

But now I'm hurting as I'm missing lha, which should very well be default by now (or unarc), and that makes installing certain things a lot more difficult...

Ha, install Poseidon... then crashes... swap out Cyberstorm memory to get the system to even boot again... now I remember that Poseidon's Trident requires MUI...

[Daedalus]

If the Tooltype is set to just "Installer", it won't matter where the Installer executable is stored - C:, Utilities, System... it will just work. Issues may arise when you upgrade a 3.9 system to 3.2, for example. You'll get the 3.9 Installer in Utilities and the 3.2 on in System instead of replacing the 3.9 one with the newer version.

Changing the location that the OS uses won't fix the problem with the default tool set to c/Installer - that still won't work...

[slaapliedje]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

If the Tooltype is set to just "Installer", it won't matter where the Installer executable is stored - C:, Utilities, System... it will just work. Issues may arise when you upgrade a 3.9 system to 3.2, for example. You'll get the 3.9 Installer in Utilities and the 3.2 on in System instead of replacing the 3.9 one with the newer version.

Changing the location that the OS uses won't fix the problem with the default tool set to c/Installer - that still won't work...

The fun thing in the particular use case for what I was doing, AsimCDFS's installer is 60k~ and the Installer from 3.2 is 107k~ so I didn't even have enough space to just copy over the old one. So changing the Tooltype to just Installer worked I tend to copy things into C: as that's where it makes the most sense to me from a Linux background :P

[outlawal2]

Originally Posted by slaapliedje

Try installing AsimCDFS on a larger partition, and it'll complain there is -#### disk space. The work around is to change the install-english script to point to 'Installer' on the hard drive, as then it can use the newer one... assuming you've copied it over from the Install disk, which the installation method doesn't do.

OK sorry to resurrect this old thread but exactly how do you get this to work? What are the steps to allow me to install Asimcdfs 9.3 on my 3.1.4 system?
And maybe I don't need it at all, I don't know. What I am trying to do is get a 5 disk Nakamichi CDROM changer to work so that it mounts all 5 disks at the same time. I saw a Youtube video where someone had used asimcdfs to accomplish this, but if there is another way to configure my stsem to get this changer to work that would be great! Currently it sees the scsi drive no issue and will mount CD1 but that is it. None of the other CDs are recognized.

[slaapliedje]

Originally Posted by outlawal2

OK sorry to resurrect this old thread but exactly how do you get this to work? What are the steps to allow me to install Asimcdfs 9.3 on my 3.1.4 system?
And maybe I don't need it at all, I don't know. What I am trying to do is get a 5 disk Nakamichi CDROM changer to work so that it mounts all 5 disks at the same time. I saw a Youtube video where someone had used asimcdfs to accomplish this, but if there is another way to configure my stsem to get this changer to work that would be great! Currently it sees the scsi drive no issue and will mount CD1 but that is it. None of the other CDs are recognized.

I would just edit the Installer icons information qnd point the Installer to the one on the hard drive.

[outlawal2]

Thanks for the reply.. I tried looking at that but I can't find any entry at all for the installer. No entry of any kind. I will look again and see if I missed something..

[outlawal2]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

For software intended to be unpacked and installed from the Amiga's hard drive, the script default tool should be set to "Installer". Not "C:Installer", not ":c/Installer", not "c/Installer", just "Installer".

OK I went back and looked some more and found the entry and set it to Installer as you said and it says it can't find installer...

Clearly I am still doing something wrong..

[Matt_H]

The reason Installer wasn’t historically copied to the hard drive is that Commodore assumed all software requiring it would ship on floppy disks and that those disks would always include it.

The reason why Asim (and other programs of similar vintage) is failing to install is because the version of Installer on the Asim disk is too old to be able to properly calculate free space on large partitions. The value overflows to a negative number and it thinks there’s no space available.

The solution is to change the version of Installer the Asim install script uses. That can be done either by replacing the version of Installer on the Asim disk or by changing the default tool to explicitly point to a newer version. (Obviously don’t do this on an original disk.) The correct home for Installer on the hard drive is SYS:Utilities, which is part of the default path as set in the startup-sequence. Meaning that if you set the install script’s default tool to “Installer” it’s actually referring to SYS:Utilities/Installer.

But if the Asim disk contains Installer in its root directory, that takes precedence over other locations in the path. And if you also have other copies of Installer kicking around your hard drive in C: and such, that’s going to cause conflicts, too. So you’ll need to set the default tool explicitly to “SYS:Utilities/Installer”.

@ outlawal2

In your case, it sounds like Installer might not actually be on your hard drive. It seems like it’s not being detected in the path. Can you go to a Shell and type “which installer” and report back?

[AMIGASYSTEM]

Originally Posted by outlawal2

OK sorry to resurrect this old thread but exactly how do you get this to work? What are the steps to allow me to install Asimcdfs 9.3 on my 3.1.4 system?
And maybe I don't need it at all, I don't know. What I am trying to do is get a 5 disk Nakamichi CDROM changer to work so that it mounts all 5 disks at the same time. I saw a Youtube video where someone had used asimcdfs to accomplish this, but if there is another way to configure my stsem to get this changer to work that would be great! Currently it sees the scsi drive no issue and will mount CD1 but that is it. None of the other CDs are recognized.

It's not important to use the installer to install AsimCDFS, you can install it also by hand, just copy some files and make an assign, if you want I can help you to do it.

If you really want to use Installer, copy it in C and in the Toolltypes write only Installer without path.

If it has a system without PATH, then in the Tooltype write C:Installer.

Regarding the assembly of multiple CD players should be simple, once created the CD0, create copies called CD1, CD2, CD3 etc. .. and each change only the Unit, which will be 1, 2 ,3 etc. ...

[slaapliedje]

Originally Posted by outlawal2

Thanks for the reply.. I tried looking at that but I can't find any entry at all for the installer. No entry of any kind. I will look again and see if I missed something..

I personally copied it to C on the hard drive as that is always in the path. 3.2 installs it in System?

[outlawal2]

Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM

Regarding the assembly of multiple CD players should be simple, once created the CD0, create copies called CD1, CD2, CD3 etc. .. and each change only the Unit, which will be 1, 2 ,3 etc. ...

Ok thanks to all of you for the suggestions, I fixed the installer issue and was able to get the software to install correctly. (WooHoo some progress)

AMIGASYSTEM FYI that I am not trying to install multiple CD drives as your example is showing, I am trying to get a Nakamichi 5 CDROM changer to work. Unfortunately, ASIM does not have a specific routine for this exact changer so I will need to use one of the other ones and tweak for use. I selected the Nakamichi MBR 7 which is a different model machine but I KNOW this works as this was used by Chris Edwards in one of his videos. He said he was able to get it to run but was NON SPECIFIC as to HOW he did this.

Does anyone out there have a mountlist example for one of these changers that they could share? When using one of these changers you have to use a different numbering scheme and I need the exact verbiage to get it right. My device is device 2 but to recognize the individual cd slots the software changes that to 002, 012, 022, 032, 042. I believe. To add to that confusion when it boots up it fails saying it can't find 12, 22, 32, and 42 with no leading zero. I just don't know how to get that information to a mountlist and where to place the mount list or what to call it.

[slaapliedje]

Originally Posted by outlawal2

Ok thanks to all of you for the suggestions, I fixed the installer issue and was able to get the software to install correctly. (WooHoo some progress)

AMIGASYSTEM FYI that I am not trying to install multiple CD drives as your example is showing, I am trying to get a Nakamichi 5 CDROM changer to work. Unfortunately, ASIM does not have a specific routine for this exact changer so I will need to use one of the other ones and tweak for use. I selected the Nakamichi MBR 7 which is a different model machine but I KNOW this works as this was used by Chris Edwards in one of his videos. He said he was able to get it to run but was NON SPECIFIC as to HOW he did this.

Does anyone out there have a mountlist example for one of these changers that they could share? When using one of these changers you have to use a different numbering scheme and I need the exact verbiage to get it right. My device is device 2 but to recognize the individual cd slots the software changes that to 002, 012, 022, 032, 042. I believe. To add to that confusion when it boots up it fails saying it can't find 12, 22, 32, and 42 with no leading zero. I just don't know how to get that information to a mountlist and where to place the mount list or what to call it.

Hmm, the only multi-changer drive I have is an external SCSI one... so no help there. But I would suggest a new thread to get the correct attention for the subject. I am curious myself how this works on the Amiga.

[outlawal2]

Originally Posted by slaapliedje

Hmm, the only multi-changer drive I have is an external SCSI one... so no help there. But I would suggest a new thread to get the correct attention for the subject. I am curious myself how this works on the Amiga.

Good suggestion on the new thread as this is no longer a software install issue.
I have opened a new thread.

FYI that my changer is also a SCSI unit so if you have a mountlist it may be of use to me even though your device is different.

Thanks folks

[slaapliedje]

Originally Posted by outlawal2

Good suggestion on the new thread as this is no longer a software install issue.
I have opened a new thread.

FYI that my changer is also a SCSI unit so if you have a mountlist it may be of use to me even though your device is different.

Thanks folks

I don't have an external SCSI controller for the Amiga to set it up. Tried at one point on my Atari TT, which handles such things completely differently.

[AMIGASYSTEM]

Originally Posted by outlawal2

Ok thanks to all of you for the suggestions, I fixed the installer issue and was able to get the software to install correctly. (WooHoo some progress)

AMIGASYSTEM FYI that I am not trying to install multiple CD drives as your example is showing, I am trying to get a Nakamichi 5 CDROM changer to work. Unfortunately, ASIM does not have a specific routine for this exact changer so I will need to use one of the other ones and tweak for use. I selected the Nakamichi MBR 7 which is a different model machine but I KNOW this works as this was used by Chris Edwards in one of his videos. He said he was able to get it to run but was NON SPECIFIC as to HOW he did this.

Does anyone out there have a mountlist example for one of these changers that they could share? When using one of these changers you have to use a different numbering scheme and I need the exact verbiage to get it right. My device is device 2 but to recognize the individual cd slots the software changes that to 002, 012, 022, 032, 042. I believe. To add to that confusion when it boots up it fails saying it can't find 12, 22, 32, and 42 with no leading zero. I just don't know how to get that information to a mountlist and where to place the mount list or what to call it.

I'm not familiar with the Nakamichi 5 CDROM, but if each CD Reader has a different drive then my advice of creating multiple mountlists (CD1, CD2, CD3 etc..) with different drives will work