Help update Amiga-Hardware : Agnus

alexh · 15 February 2006, 22:05

I've noticed that the information on Amiga-hardware about the different revisions of each of the Amiga Chips is sketchy at best, completely wrong at worse.

It comes from a lifetime of copying inaccurate information from all over the web without first checking that it is correct. I was hoping that some of us here on EAB could help Amiga-Hardware fill in the gaps and correct the mistakes for them?

If we take a look at the Agnus page.

http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showha...gi?HARDID=1448

Agnus (512K) 8361 252125-01 A1000 (NTSC), A2000A (NTSC)
Agnus (512K) 8361 R3
Agnus (512K) 8367 252362-01 A1000 (PAL), A2000A (PAL)
Agnus (512K) 8370 318070-01 A500 (NTSC), A2000 (NTSC)
Agnus (512K) 8371 318071-01 A500 (PAL), A2000 (PAL)
Agnus (1 MB) 8372 318069-02 A500 (PAL), A2000 (PAL) Regular Type
Agnus (1 MB) 8372A 318069-029 A500 (PAL), A2000 (PAL) (changed after some damage)
Agnus (2 MB) 8375B 318069-03 A3000
Agnus (2 MB) 8372AB 318069-03 A3000 (PAL), A3000T (PAL) (came after 8375B)
Agnus (2 MB) 8372B 318069-03 A3000
Agnus (2 MB) 8375 R2 318069-10 A500+ (PAL), A600 (PAL)
Agnus (2 MB) 8375 318069-11 A500+ (NTSC), A600 (NTSC)
Agnus (1 MB) 8375VBB / 8375 R1 318069-16 A500 (PAL), A2000 (PAL)
Agnus (1 MB) 8375 318069-17 A500 (NTSC), A2000 (NTSC)
Agnus (2 MB) 8375 R0 318069-18 A3000 (PAL), A3000T (PAL)
Agnus (2 MB) 8375 318069-19 A3000 (NTSC), A3000T (NTSC)
Agnus (2 MB) 8375 390544-01 A500+ (PAL), A600 (PAL)
Agnus (2 MB) 8375 390544-02 A500+ (NTSC), A600 (NTSC)

The first thing that we could do with finding out is "Are the Agnus's for the A3000 unique to the A3000"? Were they 32-bit or something... I think not, but lets find out.

alexh · 15 February 2006, 22:19

Agnus (2 MB) 8372AB 318069-03 A3000 (PAL), A3000T (PAL) (came after 8375B)

1) There is NO 8375B in the table (and there should there be!)

2) Look at the date codes on the three chips with the same number (318069-03)

8372AB 318069-03 = 4589, 5089, 5289 = 1989
8372R3 = 0291 = 1991
8372B 318069-03 = 4190, 3591 = 1990/1991
8375B 318069-03 = 5292 = 1992

Three examples of 8372AB
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...a3000rev70.jpg
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...2000_1_big.jpg
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...61mb_1_big.jpg

8372B
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...00rev9_big.jpg

8375B
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co.../achipabig.jpg

In my mind that means that 8372AB came first, then 8372B and then 8375B, correct? Somewhere in the middle came the 8372R3!

An EAB webmaster has said that their 8372B 318069-03 (3791) came from an A3000D. Anyone else? This variant is missing a description.

What the crap is commodore doing having 3 chips with the same code, were they bonded out differently with the same silicon inside? Did they do different things?

alexh · 15 February 2006, 22:22

Agnus (2 MB) 8375 318069-11

This has no description. I know myself that this is an NTSC variant used in the A500+ / A600. I have one myself in a DKB Megachip I stoopidly ordered from the US before I knew there were NTSC and PAL AGNUS's (or is that Agni?)

Here is some confirmation, an A600 with one 8375 318069-11 (4592) = 1992

http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...0mbrev2b_1.jpg

alexh · 15 February 2006, 22:33

Agnus (2 MB) 8375 R2 318069-10 A500+ (PAL), A600 (PAL)

There is no R2 silked on a 318069-10 Agnus, and hence having it in the table is meaningless.

8375 318069-10 = 0992, 3492, 4292, 4792, 4992 = 1992

http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...hipa_1_big.jpg
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...lusrev8amb.jpg
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...chip_1_big.jpg
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...600mbrev13.jpg

It is the later version of the 8375 than those marked R0 but I plan to get some date codes in the table to make that obvious.

Need a picture of an agnus with an R2 silked on it to back up this claim, otherwise we should treat it as false.

alexh · 15 February 2006, 22:38

Agnus (1 MB) 8375VBB / 8375 R1 318069-16 A500 (PAL), A2000 (PAL)

AFAIK VBB is not part of the chip designation. There are other chips with VBB on them. I am almost sure (but need confirmation) that it is something to do with the processing. Anyone confirm this?

I've only got one photo of this part 318069-16 and so I cannot deny 100% hat it never had R1 on it... anyone?

As you can see with a datecode of 1493 = 1993 this is a later agnus than the one in the table marked R2!! This makes much more sense as it has a later revision number.

Anyone any idea why this is marked as a 1Mbyte Agnus??

alexh · 15 February 2006, 22:52

Agnus (2 MB) 8375 R0 318069-18 A500+ (PAL), A600 (PAL)

There is definately Agnus chips silked 8375R0, but the only picture I've been able to find is of the 390544-01

http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...p2mb_1_big.jpg

As both these chips are designated PAL I think there has been a mixup, but more information is required to be 100% sure.

A date code of 0392 = 1992 is not consistant. There are earlier versions of the 390544-01 8375 WITHOUT the R0 dated 3591, 4291, 4391, 5291 = 1991. Need some more pictures of R0's to be sure!

http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...chip_1_big.jpg
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co..._68010_big.jpg
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...mbrev1_big.jpg

Hmm, I would assume that they introduced the R0 silk on later chips because they ran two lines? There are some 8375 318069-10 dated 0992 which is only 6 weeks different.

Can ANYONE provide a shot of a 318069-18? To be doubly sure?

P.S. Does anyone know how to work out the month from the Commodore date codes?

keropi · 15 February 2006, 23:13

wow. I am confused...
nice quest Alexh, wish I could help though....

alexh · 15 February 2006, 23:25

I've discovered that all chips including CBM use WWYY where WW stands for week 01 to 52 i guess.

Keropi, nothing to get confused over, Amiga-hardware has the wrong data and using their archive of pictures and everyone else out there's computers we should get the table ironed out in a day or so. I wonder if Ian will update it though. I have overwhelming evidence that his table is wrong.

You not got any OCS/ECS machines you could take a look at?

alexh · 16 February 2006, 22:29

No-one has any input at all? Dont you lot have real amiga bits n bobs lying about? Surely you've not all got the screws in?

amethyst · 16 February 2006, 22:50

I got my A500+ open right now, here are the markings on the Agnus:

C=CSG
318069-10
8375
3492 20VBB

VBB

Does that help any?

alexh · 16 February 2006, 23:06

Yup, no R2 on it as I thought...

Need more examples of 8375 -16, 17, -18 and -19. Anyone help here?

Plus date codes from ANYONES Agnus to help work out some time lines.

P.S. Amythyst, while you've got your A500+ open, I'd take out the battery, or at least check it as they tend to leak!

amethyst · 16 February 2006, 23:22

Funny that you should mention that. I replaced that a couple of weeks ago because I notice it was leaking with powdery corrosion. Cleaned it all up. Luckily it still works.

lopos2000 · 16 February 2006, 23:36

I have got a spare A500 board here:
Fat Agnus
C=CSG
8372A
318069-02
5290 23

alexh · 17 February 2006, 00:30

lopos no sign of an extra "9" at the end of your 318069-029 perhaps much lighter / fainter?

Does that A500 have 512k chip or 1Mbyte chip?

billy · 17 February 2006, 03:39

Sorry, I'm about 1200 miles away from my A2000's, 3000's and 4000T. Here's a pic of my A600 Aggie - UK Version.

Click image for larger version

Name: A600-Agnus.png
Views: 1107
Size: 192.0 KB
ID: 10278

Click image for larger version

Name: A600-Info.png
Views: 627
Size: 263.5 KB
ID: 10279

lopos2000 · 17 February 2006, 09:41

No. The info I gave is correct.
It's 512k version.

alexh · 17 February 2006, 13:10

Excellent, we need some more info on the RARER Agnus's the, -16 onwards.

Hope we can get some more info. The date codes are good though. I am rebuilding a new table now.

alexh · 17 February 2006, 13:46

More information acquired.

All 8372 Agnus's were both PAL and NTSC unlike their predecessors.

For the 8375 series APPEAR that they went back to having PAL and NTSC versions, but I have yet to 100% confirm it (although the famous Dean K Brown thinks so).

Dean also said that the Angus's dont all have the same pinout and are not interchangable. That is worrying. I need to confirm that.

NOB · 17 February 2006, 16:01

Here is a pic of an CDTV Agnus /Rev. 2.3 /1 MB Chip

keropi · 17 February 2006, 22:12

nope sorry, only 1200 here...

15 February 2006, 22:05	#1
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,461	Help update Amiga-Hardware : Agnus I've noticed that the information on Amiga-hardware about the different revisions of each of the Amiga Chips is sketchy at best, completely wrong at worse. It comes from a lifetime of copying inaccurate information from all over the web without first checking that it is correct. I was hoping that some of us here on EAB could help Amiga-Hardware fill in the gaps and correct the mistakes for them? If we take a look at the Agnus page. http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showha...gi?HARDID=1448 Agnus (512K) 8361 252125-01 A1000 (NTSC), A2000A (NTSC) Agnus (512K) 8361 R3 Agnus (512K) 8367 252362-01 A1000 (PAL), A2000A (PAL) Agnus (512K) 8370 318070-01 A500 (NTSC), A2000 (NTSC) Agnus (512K) 8371 318071-01 A500 (PAL), A2000 (PAL) Agnus (1 MB) 8372 318069-02 A500 (PAL), A2000 (PAL) Regular Type Agnus (1 MB) 8372A 318069-029 A500 (PAL), A2000 (PAL) (changed after some damage) Agnus (2 MB) 8375B 318069-03 A3000 Agnus (2 MB) 8372AB 318069-03 A3000 (PAL), A3000T (PAL) (came after 8375B) Agnus (2 MB) 8372B 318069-03 A3000 Agnus (2 MB) 8375 R2 318069-10 A500+ (PAL), A600 (PAL) Agnus (2 MB) 8375 318069-11 A500+ (NTSC), A600 (NTSC) Agnus (1 MB) 8375VBB / 8375 R1 318069-16 A500 (PAL), A2000 (PAL) Agnus (1 MB) 8375 318069-17 A500 (NTSC), A2000 (NTSC) Agnus (2 MB) 8375 R0 318069-18 A3000 (PAL), A3000T (PAL) Agnus (2 MB) 8375 318069-19 A3000 (NTSC), A3000T (NTSC) Agnus (2 MB) 8375 390544-01 A500+ (PAL), A600 (PAL) Agnus (2 MB) 8375 390544-02 A500+ (NTSC), A600 (NTSC) The first thing that we could do with finding out is "Are the Agnus's for the A3000 unique to the A3000"? Were they 32-bit or something... I think not, but lets find out. Last edited by alexh; 06 August 2018 at 20:00.

15 February 2006, 22:19	#2
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,461	Agnus (2 MB) 8372AB 318069-03 A3000 (PAL), A3000T (PAL) (came after 8375B) 1) There is NO 8375B in the table (and there should there be!) 2) Look at the date codes on the three chips with the same number (318069-03) 8372AB 318069-03 = 4589, 5089, 5289 = 1989 8372R3 = 0291 = 1991 8372B 318069-03 = 4190, 3591 = 1990/1991 8375B 318069-03 = 5292 = 1992 Three examples of 8372AB http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...a3000rev70.jpg http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...2000_1_big.jpg http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...61mb_1_big.jpg 8372B http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...00rev9_big.jpg 8375B http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co.../achipabig.jpg In my mind that means that 8372AB came first, then 8372B and then 8375B, correct? Somewhere in the middle came the 8372R3! An EAB webmaster has said that their 8372B 318069-03 (3791) came from an A3000D. Anyone else? This variant is missing a description. What the crap is commodore doing having 3 chips with the same code, were they bonded out differently with the same silicon inside? Did they do different things? Last edited by alexh; 02 June 2017 at 15:02.

15 February 2006, 22:22	#3
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,461	*Agnus (2 MB) 8375 318069-11* This has no description. I know myself that this is an NTSC variant used in the A500+ / A600. I have one myself in a DKB Megachip I stoopidly ordered from the US before I knew there were NTSC and PAL AGNUS's (or is that Agni?) Here is some confirmation, an A600 with one 8375 318069-11 (4592) = 1992 http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...0mbrev2b_1.jpg Last edited by alexh; 02 June 2017 at 15:03.

15 February 2006, 22:33	#4
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,461	*Agnus (2 MB) 8375 R2 318069-10 A500+ (PAL), A600 (PAL)* There is no R2 silked on a 318069-10 Agnus, and hence having it in the table is meaningless. 8375 318069-10 = 0992, 3492, 4292, 4792, 4992 = 1992 http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...hipa_1_big.jpg http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...lusrev8amb.jpg http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...chip_1_big.jpg http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...600mbrev13.jpg It is the later version of the 8375 than those marked R0 but I plan to get some date codes in the table to make that obvious. Need a picture of an agnus with an R2 silked on it to back up this claim, otherwise we should treat it as false. Last edited by alexh; 06 August 2018 at 20:00.

15 February 2006, 22:38	#5
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,461	*Agnus (1 MB) 8375VBB / 8375 R1 318069-16 A500 (PAL), A2000 (PAL)* AFAIK VBB is not part of the chip designation. There are other chips with VBB on them. I am almost sure (but need confirmation) that it is something to do with the processing. Anyone confirm this? I've only got one photo of this part 318069-16 and so I cannot deny 100% hat it never had R1 on it... anyone? As you can see with a datecode of 1493 = 1993 this is a later agnus than the one in the table marked R2!! This makes much more sense as it has a later revision number. Anyone any idea why this is marked as a 1Mbyte Agnus?? Attached Thumbnails Last edited by alexh; 15 February 2006 at 22:45.

15 February 2006, 22:52	#6
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,461	*Agnus (2 MB) 8375 R0 318069-18 A500+ (PAL), A600 (PAL)* There is definately Agnus chips silked 8375R0, but the only picture I've been able to find is of the 390544-01 http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...p2mb_1_big.jpg As both these chips are designated PAL I think there has been a mixup, but more information is required to be 100% sure. A date code of 0392 = 1992 is not consistant. There are earlier versions of the 390544-01 8375 WITHOUT the R0 dated 3591, 4291, 4391, 5291 = 1991. Need some more pictures of R0's to be sure! http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...chip_1_big.jpg http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co..._68010_big.jpg http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...mbrev1_big.jpg Hmm, I would assume that they introduced the R0 silk on later chips because they ran two lines? There are some 8375 318069-10 dated 0992 which is only 6 weeks different. Can ANYONE provide a shot of a 318069-18? To be doubly sure? P.S. Does anyone know how to work out the month from the Commodore date codes? Last edited by alexh; 02 June 2017 at 15:03.

15 February 2006, 23:13	#7
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	wow. I am confused... nice quest Alexh, wish I could help though....

15 February 2006, 23:25	#8
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,461	I've discovered that all chips including CBM use WWYY where WW stands for week 01 to 52 i guess. Keropi, nothing to get confused over, Amiga-hardware has the wrong data and using their archive of pictures and everyone else out there's computers we should get the table ironed out in a day or so. I wonder if Ian will update it though. I have overwhelming evidence that his table is wrong. You not got any OCS/ECS machines you could take a look at? Last edited by alexh; 15 February 2006 at 23:32.

16 February 2006, 22:29	#9
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,461	No-one has any input at all? Dont you lot have real amiga bits n bobs lying about? Surely you've not all got the screws in?

16 February 2006, 22:50	#10
amethyst Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: England Posts: 38	I got my A500+ open right now, here are the markings on the Agnus: C=CSG 318069-10 8375 3492 20VBB VBB Does that help any?

16 February 2006, 23:06	#11
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,461	Yup, no R2 on it as I thought... Need more examples of 8375 -16, 17, -18 and -19. Anyone help here? Plus date codes from ANYONES Agnus to help work out some time lines. P.S. Amythyst, while you've got your A500+ open, I'd take out the battery, or at least check it as they tend to leak! Last edited by alexh; 16 February 2006 at 23:12.

16 February 2006, 23:22	#12
amethyst Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: England Posts: 38	Funny that you should mention that. I replaced that a couple of weeks ago because I notice it was leaking with powdery corrosion. Cleaned it all up. Luckily it still works.

16 February 2006, 23:36	#13
lopos2000 Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Cider is best In The West Posts: 1,238	I have got a spare A500 board here: Fat Agnus C=CSG 8372A 318069-02 5290 23

17 February 2006, 00:30	#14
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,461	lopos no sign of an extra "9" at the end of your 318069-029 perhaps much lighter / fainter? Does that A500 have 512k chip or 1Mbyte chip?

17 February 2006, 03:39	#15
billy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: US / A Age: 49 Posts: 134	Sorry, I'm about 1200 miles away from my A2000's, 3000's and 4000T. Here's a pic of my A600 Aggie - UK Version.

17 February 2006, 09:41	#16
lopos2000 Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Cider is best In The West Posts: 1,238	No. The info I gave is correct. It's 512k version.

17 February 2006, 13:10	#17
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,461	Excellent, we need some more info on the RARER Agnus's the, -16 onwards. Hope we can get some more info. The date codes are good though. I am rebuilding a new table now.

17 February 2006, 13:46	#18
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,461	More information acquired. All 8372 Agnus's were both PAL and NTSC unlike their predecessors. For the 8375 series APPEAR that they went back to having PAL and NTSC versions, but I have yet to 100% confirm it (although the famous Dean K Brown thinks so). Dean also said that the Angus's dont all have the same pinout and are not interchangable. That is worrying. I need to confirm that. Last edited by alexh; 17 February 2006 at 14:15.

17 February 2006, 16:01	#19
NOB Zone Friend Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 424	Here is a pic of an CDTV Agnus /Rev. 2.3 /1 MB Chip Last edited by NOB; 23 January 2007 at 21:02.

17 February 2006, 22:12	#20
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	nope sorry, only 1200 here...

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