Once more, charming comments on Youtube about homebrew efforts

[Gordon]

Well done xanderbeanz on making a constructive thread TOXIC.

[clebin]

Originally Posted by malko

Two people leaving after two-three exchanges... hum...
This is not what we can call an healthy exchange. A defeat due to empty arguments ?

I'm only leaving the conversation, not the whole site!

[malko]

Originally Posted by clebin

I'm only leaving the conversation, not the whole site!

This is how I understood it

[Foebane]

Inviyya is a good-looking game with great music and a nice art style, I liked what I saw in the video in the OP.

[gimbal]

Toxicity is like a fart. You can't smell it if you don't inhale, you can't drag it with you and spread it if you don't run through it and disturb it. You just need to let the gas cloud hang there and slowly rise up where it can do no harm. Untouched and ignored.

When I read this thread, I hear farts followed by SNFFFFFFFFFFRT! and the tippity tap of running people.

[Adrian Browne]

Originally Posted by acidbottle

Interesting point about the "toxicity" towards men in the past few years, never thought about it too deeply but it is kind of true.

Anyways, internet is full of trolls, I let them starve personally! That said, forums and youtube, twitter and all that bollox are for open opinions, some you will agree and others you cannot. When a debate turns into a slagging match I draw the line there.

The world has turned into a self entitled, narcissistic place for a long time now, I believe the push of technology, such as smart phones, has accelerated this. Society is falling apart and its quite alarming to see it happen before your very eyes.

Anyway, so the world is full of pricks, probably outnumbering the decent people nowadays. Try not to lower to their level or ignore them. Treat others how you would like to be treated.

Inviyya rocks no matter what a handful of tryhards think. Also love my boxed copy

[Adrian Browne]

Truly, online it's easy for people to say stuff that they would never have the courage to say if they had to look you in the eye in real life. It's incognito.

Some just say stuff purely to annoy- most you-tube comments sections are cesspits.
I endeavor to keep my manners online as in real life- mostly successfully unless I meet a real nasty piece of work i could lose my temper. Inviyya is fine, its a good game, technically smooth, nice graphics; in particular that its all done by one person.

I would not compare it to triple A games from the 90's- disposable hero, Apidya etc. Those used dedicated teams. Most shooters on amiga were rubbish back in the day- I have tried them on whdload- Scorpio is a good one though that I found.

[aeberbach]

Much respect lost in this thread.

[Minuous]

This is a commercial game, so why shouldn't it be judged frankly on its merits? It is beneficial to have open discussions about the quality, or lack thereof, of commercial products. From what I've seen it is not worth the money being charged for it.

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by Minuous

This is a commercial game, so why shouldn't it be judged frankly on its merits? It is beneficial to have open discussions about the quality, or lack thereof, of commercial products. From what I've seen it is not worth the money being charged for it.

If it's your opinion that Inviyya is not worth 10 euros I am completely fine with that.
Everybody is entitled about his/her opinion and nobody is made to pay for a game against their will.

What this thread was originally about is the ridiculous amount of hate and vitriol that people think is okay to hurl at such a production. And me wondering where all this hate is coming from, and why it's so prevalent in the wider Amiga scene. Because I have never ever encountered something like this in the Vectrex, Atari2600 and even the C64 scene (which can be a bit more rough and competitive at times as well).

Because, whatever problem you have with the game, calling it a "8bit game with Amiga music" or "cover disk quality" is frankly bullshit and just aimed at internet edge lords.

If you have a different view on this I don't have a problem duking it out with comparisons.

[Minuous]

I've seen plenty of negative comments about programs on many platforms. But I think since the Amiga is a much more powerful machine than the other platforms mentioned, expectations are correspondingly higher. Personally I decided to stop buying OCS/ECS games in about 1994, I was annoyed that the technology had been upgraded and yet hardly any of the games were taking advantage of it. Probably the colour gradients would look a lot better in AGA too.

[sparhawk]

Originally Posted by Steril707

What this thread was originally about is the ridiculous amount of hate and vitriol that people think is okay to hurl at such a production.

I just looked at all the comments on that video. There are only 66 anyway. There are only a handful of "bad" comments (some of which you were citing here) and at least some of them are clarified a bit in followups. The general agreement is that the game is technically very good. To be honest, I don't see a "ridiculous amount of hate" there, but I'm not so emotionally attached as you are, which I think is the main problem here.


If you plan to make another game, I would rather take the valid points and see what you can improve for your next project instead of focusing on a few remarks you feel offending. After all, none of the comments are questioning the technical aspects, only the gameplay.

[skan]

Originally Posted by Steril707

What this thread was originally about is the ridiculous amount of hate and vitriol that people think is okay to hurl at such a production. And me wondering where all this hate is coming from, and why it's so prevalent in the wider Amiga scene. Because I have never ever encountered something like this in the Vectrex, Atari2600 and even the C64 scene (which can be a bit more rough and competitive at times as well).

The point is not a community or another IMHO. It's just that if you go commercial, be ready to face constant shitstorms, homebrew or not, one-man-band effort or not, personal artistic views or not. Do you really think this hate is Amiga-exclusive? Put a game on Steam and then tell me how it goes!

(NOTE: I had a game on Steam so I know what I'm talking about)

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by skan

Do you really think this hate is Amiga-exclusive?

I am not talking about Steam, though.
I am talking about modern Homebrew efforts.

And this is simply my experience.

I was annoyed that the technology had been upgraded and yet hardly any of the games were taking advantage of it. Probably the colour gradients would look a lot better in AGA too.

Thanks for posting this.
This is exactly also one of the bigger problems of Amiga homebrew that I see that's simply not existing in other scenes.
A large amount of Amiga owners just don't accept the idea of a new game made for these Vanilla configs.

If you plan to make another game, I would rather take the valid points and see what you can improve for your next project instead of focusing on a few remarks you feel offending. After all, none of the comments are questioning the technical aspects, only the gameplay.

Honestly, if I had to do it again, I would not make a different shooter than this one. This is exactly how -> I <- want a shooter to play.
Extremely fair, non random, solving situations through positioning and shooting at the right point of time instead of filling the screen with bullets.

The game was play tested to oblivion, and is directed at a certain demographic of gamers. Which is more in the beginner to intermediate bracket.

What I see as an argument there is basically a thinly veiled "I prefer a different kind of shooter like Bullet Hell games or Thunder Force styled ones". Which is completely okay for me.

It's just this weird idea that there is only one kind of shooter "allowed" which seems bullshit to me, to be honest.

Given this, what are these "valid points" you are talking about that are being shared there?
Because I really fail to see them and see only some edge lord insults, because "the Amiga should be capable of so much more".

[grond]

Originally Posted by Steril707

wondering where all this hate is coming from, and why it's so prevalent in the wider Amiga scene. Because I have never ever encountered something like this in the Vectrex, Atari2600 and even the C64 scene (which can be a bit more rough and competitive at times as well).

Perhaps it's just that the Atari2600 scene is on average older than the C64 scene which on average is a bit older than the Amiga scene. And the Amiga scene is closest in age to that venom spitting social media scum.

[sparhawk]

Originally Posted by Steril707

It's just this weird idea that there is only one kind of shooter "allowed" which seems bullshit to me, to be honest.

I know what you mean. I often think the same when I read a review in Gamestar or PC Games and the tester says something like "A lot of potential missing because this feature was not done this or that way". I always have to think, why are those guys not doing their own game, then they can add all the features that they want have to be in there. A game developer/designer should IMO follow his vision (mostly).

Given this, what are these "valid points" you are talking about that are being shared there?

One thing that I noticed is that the player feedback lacks a bit when an enemy explodes. Not sure if the explosion animation is to slow or lacks some extra frame, but it doesn't feel like an explosion. This is especially noticable with the bigger enemies, like the big robot in the first level, which walks on the floor. When it explodes, it looks as if the explosion has only two frames which are spaced out. I think this is also the reason why the guy says it choppy. The scrolling isn't choppy, but the explosion make it looke like it were. Stuff like this makes it look unpolished and hurts the atmosphere of the game. It feels a bit better with the smaller enemies though.

Another thing that is also quite strange is that in the video, when you shoot, there is always some scratchy noise. It doesn't sound like a shot but rather like a bug or a placeholder sound.
In the first two levels, the surroundings look really great and detailed. In Level 2 (8:01) there are structures which look rather strange though. I guess they could use more detail maybe (the ones on the ground).
Same in Level 3 with this rocks(?) Just big slabs of grey stuff.


These are just a few observations which I think might elicit such comments like "free cover disc game" or similar and some could probably be fixed without affecting performance or memory requirements.

[clebin]

Originally Posted by Steril707

Honestly, if I had to do it again, I would not make a different shooter than this one. This is exactly how -> I <- want a shooter to play.
Extremely fair, non random, solving situations through positioning and shooting at the right point of time instead of filling the screen with bullets.

That's all that's important, and that's the kind of shooter I want to play as it happens. I'm just not into the bullet hell thing.

I think you've balanced the different layers of parallax really well, much better than something like Shadow of the Beast which was considered a technical marvel in its day. The hardware you're targeting hasn't changed in that time, so there's no reason why we should stop using games like Beast as a benchmark and start pretending OCS can do Neo-Geo, X68000 and SNES level games...

The Amiga community has always been divided and divisive. I agree it's improved in recent years as the NG Amiga thing has died away and people have stopped yearning for the glorious comeback of Amiga as a commercial force. People are more focused on enjoying these old machines for what they were. But old habits die hard I guess and some people are still desperate to prove the Amiga's technical superiority, even if it means putting down people's work. Hence comments like "Amiga can do better than this!" Sorry folks - it can't.

[sparhawk]

Originally Posted by clebin

I think you've balanced the different layers of parallax really well, much better than something like Shadow of the Beast which was considered a technical marvel in its day.

Personally I never understood the hype about SOTB. It may have been technically impressive, but I never liked it as a game.

Hence comments like "Amiga can do better than this!" Sorry folks - it can't.

I think that the comeback of retro games may shift the expectation. On Steam you can see all kind of Pixelgames, which look impressive in it's own rights, and give the impression that it is achieved with the same hardware requirements as such old machines had. But the truth is, it isn't.
I like to play Kingdom: New Lands https://store.steampowered.com/app/4...gdom_New_Lands and in the beginning I thought, this might be a cool game to be converted to Amiga. I figured that it is very suitable because of it's pixelgraphics. I started to look a bit closer at the game, not as a player, but as a developer, and suddenly I realized all the problems that I would have to encounter, which are not so obvious at first glance and would require more processing power than is available on the Amiga. I have no experience in developing a real game, so I might be wrong, but I think these retro games might give a wrong impression to people what they can expect. And a lot of memories is blurred by nostalgia. There are often games that I held in high regard, but when I come back today, I notice all the rough edges which I didn't remember anymore.

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by clebin

The Amiga community has always been divided and divisive. I agree it's improved in recent years as the NG Amiga thing has died away and people have stopped yearning for the glorious comeback of Amiga as a commercial force. People are more focused on enjoying these old machines for what they were. But old habits die hard I guess and some people are still desperate to prove the Amiga's technical superiority, even if it means putting down people's work. Hence comments like "Amiga can do better than this!" Sorry folks - it can't.

Even if Commodore weren't around or able to produce a NG Amiga, accelerators like Blizzard and graphics cards like Picasso were available to fill the relevant niches in the market.

And in terms of the Amiga's technical superiority, that certainly was true when it first launched, but that was thirty-six years ago, and only a few years after machines like the ZX Spectrum and Commodore 64 launched, and so the technical superiority argument is bound to have left the Amiga behind. Progress and technology marches on.

[viddi]

Sorry for the full quote, but I agree 101%!!

Originally Posted by Steril707

I am not talking about Steam, though.
I am talking about modern Homebrew efforts.

And this is simply my experience.



Thanks for posting this.
This is exactly also one of the bigger problems of Amiga homebrew that I see that's simply not existing in other scenes.
A large amount of Amiga owners just don't accept the idea of a new game made for these Vanilla configs.



Honestly, if I had to do it again, I would not make a different shooter than this one. This is exactly how -> I <- want a shooter to play.
Extremely fair, non random, solving situations through positioning and shooting at the right point of time instead of filling the screen with bullets.

The game was play tested to oblivion, and is directed at a certain demographic of gamers. Which is more in the beginner to intermediate bracket.

What I see as an argument there is basically a thinly veiled "I prefer a different kind of shooter like Bullet Hell games or Thunder Force styled ones". Which is completely okay for me.

It's just this weird idea that there is only one kind of shooter "allowed" which seems bullshit to me, to be honest.

Given this, what are these "valid points" you are talking about that are being shared there?
Because I really fail to see them and see only some edge lord insults, because "the Amiga should be capable of so much more".