WinUae bugs

PiCiJi · 05 April 2005, 18:10

I am using the latest version of Winuae.

Double Dragon 2 (ipf or crack) don't load. WinUae + whdload works.

I noticed a small problem in vertical scrolling of some games, for example Lionheart and Scooby Doo.

I am using Powerstrip to force 50 Hz. The horizontal scrolling is excelent. By scrolling vertical, it seems to flicker a little bit. This behaviour doesn't occur on a real Amiga.

Maybe it helps to make this fine emulator better.

spiff · 05 April 2005, 22:00

I've got another one. If I mount "CD32_888_FINAL.ISO" and try to copy all the files to HD winuae crashes after a couple of files.

I'm not shure its really winuaes fault, since I can't copy any files to a windows PC that contains " > " or " " < " in the name.. so my guess is that might be the problem..

PiCiJi · 06 April 2005, 10:49

The vertical flicker problem occurs in 60 Hz too. Hopefully it's not a graphic card issue? but other better emus works fine

Toni Wilen · 06 April 2005, 12:04

Quote:

I am using Powerstrip to force 50 Hz. The horizontal scrolling is excelent. By scrolling vertical, it seems to flicker a little bit.

Did you select "(50Hz)"-mode from display-panel and also enabled vsync?

Quote:

Double Dragon 2 (ipf or crack) don't load

Known bug since 0.9.90 or 0.9.91. Fixed in next release.

Quote:

If I mount "CD32_888_FINAL.ISO" and try to copy all the files to HD winuae crashes after a couple of files.

Using uaescsi.device or mounting it as a harddrive? Which file causes the crash?

PiCiJi · 06 April 2005, 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Did you select "(50Hz)"-mode from display-panel and also enabled vsync?

Yes i have selected 50 Hz and vsync from Winuae display panel. The vertical flicker problem increases in games with slowly vertical scrolling, like Alien Breed. I tried to change the filter options a little bit. In the worst case, I don't know the filter setting anymore, the horizontal scrolling flickers too. Maybe this comment is usefull for error tracing. I am using the resolution 800x600 and 720x576. Powerstrip isn't able to select 50.000 Hz, but (49.997 Hz vertical and 29.848 KHz horizontal) or (50.090 vertical and 29.904 horizontal) It must be that the vsync is exact 50,000 Hz ?

In 800x600 I can input excact 50,000 Hz. It doesn't solve the problem.

spiff · 06 April 2005, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Using uaescsi.device or mounting it as a harddrive? Which file causes the crash?

It's a iso image mounted with deamontools first on the pc then
Mounting as a harddrive "FS: mounted virtual unit cd (G:\)"

It's a different file every time.
*cd:crx/l/lsa/legionsoftwarealliance
*cd:crx/h/hqe/ttfqx.crk

I can copy these files seperatly, how ever using opus to copy the "whole" cd gives me an crash after about 150 to 600 files.

Toni Wilen · 06 April 2005, 13:20

Quote:

I can copy these files seperatly, how ever using opus to copy the "whole" cd gives me an crash after about 150 to 600 files.

Does it also crash if you use plain copy-command?

spiff · 06 April 2005, 18:55

Yes it does.. copy CD: hd2:tp will work on two files ("root dir") then after the 5th or so try it will crash.
Just for the sake of it I tried copying a couple of HD->HD directorys.. and that craches as well after a while.

I've been using this config before to create amiga CDs. There's always been the odd (JIT?) works, does not the next time. Just not this unstable...

I recently changed to an athlon64, could this have anything to do with the problem?

I'll poke around with the config and see what comes up..

spiff · 06 April 2005, 20:09

Solved it!
If I disable Cycle exact cpu and blitter file copy/delete is stable again

PiCiJi · 07 April 2005, 22:43

I have deactivated the filter options. And now the vertical scrolling works correctly. Of course, it doesn't look so good without filters, but it's ok. So maybe there is a bug with the filters?

Toni Wilen · 07 April 2005, 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiCiJi

I have deactivated the filter options. And now the vertical scrolling works correctly. Of course, it doesn't look so good without filters, but it's ok. So maybe there is a bug with the filters?

What filter? All filters?

IFW · 08 April 2005, 03:59

Nope.

A filter works by oversampling and interpolating a group of pixels. How pixels are grouped and what happens to them is the nature of the filter, usually some kind of interpolation and/or weighted average.
What happens when you scroll a playfield is that the group of pixels used for the process are changing; in a bad scenario giving a noticably different pixel colour than in the previous frame including motion, hence a visible glitch. How and when the viewer notices the glitch is completely dependant on the viewer's perception of motion and colour changes.
Therefore if you use a filter on a scrolling game and a filter that does not use some kind of motion compensation algorithm - afaik none of them used in emulators does... - depending on the pixel colour and your personal perception of rapid changes more or less visible glitches can be observed.

The only way to avoid the problem - if you can notice it - is not using a filter that changes the rendering of the image, like scaling using exact multiples etc.

Hope this helps.

PiCiJi · 08 April 2005, 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

What filter? All filters?

Yes the vertical scrolling doesn't work correctly with all possible filter settings (including Null Filter) Only deactivating solves the problem.

I am using a Radeon X-800 graphic card series.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IFW

The only way to avoid the problem - if you can notice it - is not using a filter that changes the rendering of the image, like scaling using exact multiples etc.

I like the interpolation filter in other emus. There are no scrolling probs.

Toni Wilen · 08 April 2005, 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiCiJi

I like the interpolation filter in other emus. There are no scrolling probs.

Interpolation = not 1:1 pixel mapping = slow and smooth scrolling will look slightly weird.. but it seems your problem is not due to non 1:1 pixel mapping but something else. Maybe you have some Direct3D tweaks enabled that can cause problems with DirectDraw vsync?

Can you see the problem in recorded video?

PiCiJi · 08 April 2005, 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Can you see the problem in recorded video?

the recorded avi doesn't run so smooth like the emulation. The vertical scrolling don't show the flicker behaviour like the emulation. But I am not 100 % sure.

The vertical scrolling in the emulation looks like a jerky water surface, but scrolls smooth at least.

LocalH · 08 April 2005, 16:38

I noticed a similar 'non-smoothness' when running WB in 720x480x60fps with VSync on - you'd imagine the mouse movement to be almost perfectly smooth (barring the occasional dropped frame), but it's not. This is also being output to TV, but I'm almost sure it also happens on standard PC monitor. This is also in nonlaced mode, I haven't tried lace in this configuration yet.

PiCiJi · 08 April 2005, 21:55

it differs from game to game. the vertical scrolling by using a filter works fine for Turrican 3 or Shadow of the Beast.

strange: the whdload version of shadow of the beast flickers with activated filter, but the disc version doesn't flicker with activated filter.

PiCiJi · 09 April 2005, 11:39

Finaly the problem is solved. Now the vertical scrolling works correct with activated filter.

solution: I had to deactivate the option "correct aspect ratio", in german "korrektes Seitenverhältnis", under the display panel of WinUae.

By the way I have found another small bug in Shadow of the Beast 2. I am using the caps version. The soles of the hero are displayed wrong. You can see it by walking up a hill, just left of the beginning of the game.

05 April 2005, 18:10	#1
PiCiJi Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: germany Age: 45 Posts: 434	WinUae bugs I am using the latest version of Winuae. Double Dragon 2 (ipf or crack) don't load. WinUae + whdload works. I noticed a small problem in vertical scrolling of some games, for example Lionheart and Scooby Doo. I am using Powerstrip to force 50 Hz. The horizontal scrolling is excelent. By scrolling vertical, it seems to flicker a little bit. This behaviour doesn't occur on a real Amiga. Maybe it helps to make this fine emulator better.

05 April 2005, 22:00	#2
spiff Oh noes! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Neverland Posts: 766	I've got another one. If I mount "CD32_888_FINAL.ISO" and try to copy all the files to HD winuae crashes after a couple of files. I'm not shure its really winuaes fault, since I can't copy any files to a windows PC that contains " > " or " " < " in the name.. so my guess is that might be the problem.. Last edited by spiff; 17 October 2020 at 15:03.

06 April 2005, 18:55	#8
spiff Oh noes! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Neverland Posts: 766	Yes it does.. copy CD: hd2:tp will work on two files ("root dir") then after the 5th or so try it will crash. Just for the sake of it I tried copying a couple of HD->HD directorys.. and that craches as well after a while. I've been using this config before to create amiga CDs. There's always been the odd (JIT?) works, does not the next time. Just not this unstable... I recently changed to an athlon64, could this have anything to do with the problem? I'll poke around with the config and see what comes up.. Last edited by spiff; 06 April 2005 at 19:01.

08 April 2005, 21:55	#17
PiCiJi Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: germany Age: 45 Posts: 434	it differs from game to game. the vertical scrolling by using a filter works fine for Turrican 3 or Shadow of the Beast. strange: the whdload version of shadow of the beast flickers with activated filter, but the disc version doesn't flicker with activated filter. Last edited by PiCiJi; 08 April 2005 at 23:33.

09 April 2005, 11:39	#18
PiCiJi Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: germany Age: 45 Posts: 434	Finaly the problem is solved. Now the vertical scrolling works correct with activated filter. solution: I had to deactivate the option "correct aspect ratio", in german "korrektes Seitenverhältnis", under the display panel of WinUae. By the way I have found another small bug in Shadow of the Beast 2. I am using the caps version. The soles of the hero are displayed wrong. You can see it by walking up a hill, just left of the beginning of the game. Last edited by PiCiJi; 09 April 2005 at 12:10.

06 April 2005, 10:49	#3
PiCiJi Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: germany Age: 45 Posts: 434	The vertical flicker problem occurs in 60 Hz too. Hopefully it's not a graphic card issue? but other better emus works fine

06 April 2005, 20:09	#9
spiff Oh noes! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Neverland Posts: 766	Solved it! If I disable Cycle exact cpu and blitter file copy/delete is stable again

07 April 2005, 22:43	#10
PiCiJi Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: germany Age: 45 Posts: 434	I have deactivated the filter options. And now the vertical scrolling works correctly. Of course, it doesn't look so good without filters, but it's ok. So maybe there is a bug with the filters?

08 April 2005, 03:59	#12
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	Nope. A filter works by oversampling and interpolating a group of pixels. How pixels are grouped and what happens to them is the nature of the filter, usually some kind of interpolation and/or weighted average. What happens when you scroll a playfield is that the group of pixels used for the process are changing; in a bad scenario giving a noticably different pixel colour than in the previous frame including motion, hence a visible glitch. How and when the viewer notices the glitch is completely dependant on the viewer's perception of motion and colour changes. Therefore if you use a filter on a scrolling game and a filter that does not use some kind of motion compensation algorithm - afaik none of them used in emulators does... - depending on the pixel colour and your personal perception of rapid changes more or less visible glitches can be observed. The only way to avoid the problem - if you can notice it - is not using a filter that changes the rendering of the image, like scaling using exact multiples etc. Hope this helps.

08 April 2005, 16:38	#16
LocalH Amiga user since 1990 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kingsport, TN / USA Age: 44 Posts: 295	I noticed a similar 'non-smoothness' when running WB in 720x480x60fps with VSync on - you'd imagine the mouse movement to be almost perfectly smooth (barring the occasional dropped frame), but it's not. This is also being output to TV, but I'm almost sure it also happens on standard PC monitor. This is also in nonlaced mode, I haven't tried lace in this configuration yet.

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