Idea for future demo DVDs

[LocalH]

Perhaps it might be a good idea to make the menus and titles widescreen as well? I dunno whether you'd have to release a separate disc to the fullscreen version, or if the DVD player can choose the right menu based on its settings. But I was playing around with Photoshop CS yesterday and I really like the pixel aspect ratio correction - since widescreen DVD is still 720x480/576, just in an anamorphic form, it's great to be able to paint on an ~864x480 canvas visually, but get quality results at 720x480.

I'd imagine it'd be best to run the demos themselves in 4:3. Although there might be enough resolution to get a good quality and use the other part of the screen for other information about the demo, I dunno how well this would work in practice.

[BippyM]

do what?

Amiga don't do widescreen :O

Instead just change your tv size

[LocalH]

You're missing my point, I think. =P

DVD supports both standard 4:3 at 720x480/576, and also widescreen 16:9 at the same resolution (horizontally stretched). I was suggesting to use the DVD widescreen to present the same information, but with more effective screen space (although it's the same resolution, when stretched back out you won't notice much, if any, degradation). Perhaps it could be used to have a full-screen shot of the demo, with the information beside it.

I know the Amiga doesn't do widescreen by default (widescreen is really more of a function of the actual graphics rather than the properties of the video output), which is why I suggested demos should be recorded at standard 4:3 aspect.

On another topic:
I am currently developing a method of recording the video with WinUAE in 'normal' line mode (not scanline or doubled), and weaving the frames into a standard DV AVI (using free tools such as VirtualDubMod and AviSynth, and the high-quality codec of your choice). This will aid in creating a high quality video closer to the output of a real Amiga (since the Amiga doesn't output 50 discrete frames per second like WinUAE in 'doubled' mode does). If it helps, I can write up a guide once I've perfected the method (which should work with both PAL and NTSC mode). I'm currently using an MJPEG codec, but any codec that gives good quality at high bitrates would work, and if you can afford the HD space for uncompressed or Huffyuv, you'll get great quality with this method.

[BippyM]

Go and checkout my DemoDVD project and ask those that have seen the preview DVDs if it is indeed near to perfect representation of the original! you will see I have quite a bit of experience now, and ripping avi from WinUAE is a peice of cake for me now.

The real Amiga does not stretch the image if on a widescreen TV, so in fact you wont be creating a proper copy!!!

[LocalH]

Originally Posted by bippym

Go and checkout my DemoDVD project and ask those that have seen the preview DVDs if it is indeed near to perfect representation of the original! you will see I have quite a bit of experience now, and ripping avi from WinUAE is a peice of cake for me now.

Are you still using DVD lo-res as you indicated elsewhere in this forum? If so, you're really losing exactly 1/2 of the frames, which you won't by using a 576-line image that contains weaved original-Amiga-frames. Plus, you'll lose half the vertical detail in demos that used an interlaced screenmode (not too terribly many, but I've got a Lemon demo that has a nice HAM-laced image at the end). I guarantee you that, with a side-by-side comparison of 352x288x25fps and 720x576x25fps, you *will* notice the difference, especially with demos that run in non-laced mode and use oneframed effects. However, I do understand that this is your project, and 352x288 may suit your requirements perfectly well, so I don't mean to sound bossy - these are just suggestions. However, I can be quite anal when it comes to making the absolute best representation of vintage systems in digital formats, so I might just have to start my own demo DVD project when I can acquire a dual-layer DVD writer, so I can do it my way

Originally Posted by bippym

The real Amiga does not stretch the image if on a widescreen TV, so in fact you wont be creating a proper copy!!!

You're still missing my point, I believe. The actual demos would be recorded as normal in WinUAE - either via your method, or my half-height+weave method, and would be displayed on the DVD as 4:3 video (fullscreen on a 4:3 set and sideboxed on a 16:9 display). The only place I'm advocating any widescreen material is the menus and other auxiliary video other than the demos themselves. This is where I'm a bit unsure how to implement - do DVDs support both 16:9 and 4:3 content for the same menu, chosen by the player settings? If so, this would be the best route - if you're using a 4:3 set, you get the 4:3 menus and 4:3 demos. If you're using a 16:9 set, you get the 16:9 menus and 4:3 demos with sideboxing. But definitely, the actual demos wouldn't be widescreen (I don't feel that the quality would be as good when the Amiga video is horizontally sized to have the correct aspect on a 16:9 set).

[BippyM]

Ahh I follow now :P

[LocalH]

Ok, I've done a little bit of experimentation. First of all, the hardest thing to sort out is getting the field affinity straight (some codecs want top-field-first, some - like DV - want bottom-field-first, and some - like MPEG-2 - can cope with either). Once I was able to do this with a good quality (I used an AviSynth script that assumes top-field-first, then weaves the fields, then does ComplementParity which changes the field affinity without physically swapping the fields), I ran it through TMPGEnc in VBR 2-pass mode with 384kbps MP2 audio. I have done two demos this way (Lemon's 40k intro and TRSI's 38k intro called 'No Pain No Gain'), and slapped a quick menu on it with TMPGEnc DVD Autho, just as a test. The total size was approximately 250MB and the quality was quite good, tested in WinDVD with Deinterlacing set to "Force Bob".

[BippyM]

I have been reading some of these old threads, and I seem to come across as arrogant and know it all.. This is not true and I must apologise LocalH to you and anyone else who tried to help..

I feel the urge to start fresh and get this stuff ripped and done properly at 50fps etc.. Let's see eh!

[LocalH]

Not a problem, my good man. I've been guilty of that many a time in my past, when I thought I knew everything about something, and it turned out I was wrong on something. We all learn from our mistakes (well, most of us do, anyway, sometimes I'm still a bit stubborn ).

[pandy71]

@LocalH

Can You describe methodology that You use for capturing video?

When i made some recordings (WinUAE) then i realize that to not loose details i need to record video in 768x584p50 then with use of some tools (mostly my favorite avisynth) convert those recordings to the 704x576i25.

Im really interested in Yours idea of recording (i don't have RGB capture card so i can't record analog video which is RGB)