31 January 2019, 16:12 | #81 | ||
Registered User
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Munich/Bavaria
Posts: 2,294
|
Quote:
Just putting some fake news about OSS straight. Quote:
Please do not mistake the challenging of certain decisions as "bashing". Thank you. |
||
31 January 2019, 16:55 | #82 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,214
|
To all: Please don't forget who earned the money: Tobias and Alex did. They did most of the work, which was a tremedous task because P96 is more or less a reimplementation of the graphics system. Jens paid them off, because he had the money in the pocket, not one of us. While I do not know exactly, to my knowledge this was a high four-digit amount, if not one digit more - to give you figures.
So please, with all necessary respect: Remember that you pay the authors, even though indirectly. They really earned it. I did relatively little compared to them. |
31 January 2019, 19:02 | #83 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 1,893
|
It was mentioned somewhere (I think here on EAB, recently), that Tobias and Alex had access to the OS sources when making P96. It strikes me as a little odd that someone could look at OS sources, and write code that is then theirs and sold as a product. I am not suggesting anything, but some clarification could be nice.
|
31 January 2019, 19:19 | #84 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Munich/Bavaria
Posts: 2,294
|
Well - since the sources were leaked long ago anyone can have a look at the sources.
That does not change anything as long as you are not trying to recreate the OS (like AROS) - any other tool/program is still ok - there is no conflict. Think of Linux: everyone is invited to look at the sources, but nobody will dispute that you can write your very own program (even closed source) for Linux - it will be yours alone and you can sell it as a product. Even Microsoft allows third parties to look at their source code (and NT was leaked in the 90s). |
01 February 2019, 03:58 | #85 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 2,902
|
Does anyone know whether multi-monitor support as in extending workbench between new monitors is possible with P96? I know it doesn't support it currently but someday I think it would be great if you could have the AGA and a RTG to have a Workbench spanning multiple monitors.
Shapeshifter could do that 20-some years ago but the native OS could not. It would be somewhat limited in usefulness as the resolution between monitors ideally was about the same as in 640x480 AGA and 800x480 RTG. |
01 February 2019, 06:34 | #86 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 1,893
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Also a very different situation, that is what "open" used to mean (OpenVMS, OpenSolaris, OpenSTEP, OpenVieew etc) and this was/is common. But Picasso96 was released in 1996/97, so who allowed it? |
|||
01 February 2019, 07:33 | #87 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,918
|
Quote:
Since they did a lot of work, they can still sell there rights to that work. The question is whether the purchaser can use what he bought without permission from a third party and thus what price he would be willing to pay. Here Hyperion was a party in the deal which supposedly exempts P96 from copyright infringement. |
|
01 February 2019, 09:49 | #88 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 1,893
|
@grond
Picasso96 was released a long time before Hyperion even existed, years before H&P and OS 3.5 even. The only ones who could have granted access to sources legally would have been Commodore or Amiga Technologies/ESCOM - rumours had it that Petro were handing out OS sources east and west at the time, so I guess that's how it could have happened. Village Tronic that made the Picasso cards, were also publishing OS 3.1, so perhaps it sticks even deeper. The Village Tronic OS 3.1 release was also controversial, I know. Last edited by kolla; 01 February 2019 at 10:27. |
01 February 2019, 12:59 | #89 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,918
|
I'm not sure how any of this is relevant today. Assuming that Hyperion's involvement and consent put the legal issues straight, it doesn't really matter how legal the release was back then. And the rumours I heard said that it was disassembled OS code, not high-level language OS code that went into some parts of P96.
|
01 February 2019, 15:45 | #90 | |||
Registered User
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Munich/Bavaria
Posts: 2,294
|
Quote:
So yes: you can in theory look at the sources. And you can even write a improved scsi.device if it is NOT based on the original code - if it it is based only on your knowledge of the inner workings it would be still ok. (As you see it becomes slightly grey here, as you picked a part, that already exists in the old OS - this was not the case with P96.) Quote:
Nobody disputes the ownership of Nvidia's drivers... Quote:
But I do not see the relevance here, since "looking at something" does not change anything at all. |
|||
01 February 2019, 21:45 | #91 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,214
|
Quote:
|
|
01 February 2019, 21:53 | #92 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,214
|
Quote:
What P96 (up to 2.3) does here is that it "collects" some information intuition "leaves by pure chance" in registers, as for example the ViewMode of the new screen. You cannot do that without disassembling parts of intuition. CGfx has to do something similar, but I do not know the details there as I haven't seen its source. All this will have to change, of course. P96 already had (even in the Aminet version) an extended interface for AllocBitmap() I cooked up back then, though it was never activated. And of course, the counterpart for this interface in intuition is also missing (including 3.1.4), and ditto in graphics. Betatesters do have access to a version where this is all cleaned up, and one does not have to "peek registers", but rather, intuition tells to which monitor the bitmap should go, but that did not make it into 3.1.4. |
|
02 February 2019, 00:04 | #93 | ||
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Hastings, New Zealand
Posts: 2,544
|
Quote:
And of course, having the source code wouldn't help much because the 'pure chance' register contents would be dependent on the particular compiler and its settings. Quote:
|
||
02 February 2019, 09:00 | #94 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,214
|
Quote:
|
|
02 February 2019, 09:41 | #95 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,918
|
The way I heard it P96 contains large chunks of disassembled code of layers.library that then get built into a P96 binary.
|
02 February 2019, 11:19 | #96 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,214
|
Quote:
I should know, I did layers V45 then later on. But this was about two years later. Actually, the two asked me whether I would work on a more complete "fast layers" at the same time I fixed bugs in P96, but I did not have the time to look into layers. This only started later with the Os4 activities, remembering the implications to P96 of course. So, no, there is nothing in P96 and nothing in fastlayers, and fastlayers is not related to layers or layers V45. |
|
02 February 2019, 11:20 | #97 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 1,893
|
|
02 February 2019, 14:41 | #98 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Italy
Posts: 191
|
Quote:
"Not that simple". Wouldn't something like this be more simple: Code:
struct TagList *openscreen_taglist; struct SignalSempahore openscreensem; /*single thread open screen calls */ OpenScreen_Patch(newscreen, taglist): ObtainSemaphore(&openscreensem); openscreen_taglist = taglist; retval = (*Original_OpenScreen)(newscreen, taglist); ReleaseSemaphore(&openscreensem); return retval; AllocBitmap_Patch(w, h ...): if (detect_this_call_coming_from_intution_openscreen_to_alloc_screen_bitmap) { taglist = openscreen_taglist; viewmode = extract_viewmode(taglist); } |
|
02 February 2019, 16:56 | #99 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,214
|
Simple yes, unfortunately not completely functional. Of course, we have both OpenScreen() and OpenScreenTagList(), but leaving this aside, this is unfortunately not the only way how intuition can open a screen. The tricky case is the workbench.
If a program (e.g. DPaint) opens its own screen, and then closes the workbench, and the program then closes its own screen again, intuition triggers the workbench open again, to avoid that the user "pulls the rug" under its feed - so that the workbench becomes accessible again. Unfortunately, this does not go through the OpenScreen LVO, so you cannot capture it like this. Hence, you would not be able to safely run the workbench on an RTG screen with this approach alone. |
03 February 2019, 10:12 | #100 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 1,893
|
Picasso 96 driver for ECS/AGA
It seems that there is software that "crashes" with "Native" and P96... Ranchero goes 8000 000B and DPaint (4.1 and 5.0) brushes are garbled. No hacks and patches. rtg.library from aminet (http://aminet.net/package/driver/video/Picasso96). Just me?
Edit: DPaint 4.6 actually doesn't garble brushes. DpaintV also just bummed 8000 000B on me when attempting to "pick up" a brush. Last edited by kolla; 03 February 2019 at 19:05. |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Indivision AGA MK2 driver | PeteJ | support.Hardware | 2 | 10 August 2014 11:51 |
TRADE: Picasso II for Indivision ECS | Fingerlickin_B | MarketPlace | 2 | 20 April 2014 05:12 |
Picasso II and Indivision ECS | Dijerydack | support.Hardware | 8 | 24 September 2012 08:51 |
Driver for Picasso II (A2000 kick 3.1) | 8bitbubsy | support.Hardware | 1 | 16 April 2011 07:44 |
FS : Picasso IV, CompuServe AGA Scandoubler, C1581 | coze | MarketPlace | 0 | 22 January 2009 11:35 |
|
|