Cracking groups from the Commodore 64 and Amiga

CBMretrofan · 22 May 2020, 19:31

Hi,

please consider this question not too stupid to ask..

Having grown up with both the C64 and the Amiga, I always wondered why most of the cracking groups (with a few exceptions like Legend, Fairlight etc.) were big on the Commodore 64 but I did not see cracktros of them on the Amiga.
Ive got my Amiga late but had some good years. As the same with the C64, later I got more interested in cracktros on the Amiga too. I wonder why some of the big players there, werent on the Amiga for example ESI, Hotline, Triad, Genesis and Ikari.
Browsing older cracktros from the Amiga late 80s/ early 90s there were groups like Unit A, Angels, Vision Factory, Black Monks, Horizon, World Of Wonders, Quartex and Defjam which I never saw cracktros on the C64. Was there anything that would separate the groups activities on the machines besides the CPUs, what are your thoughts ?

Best Regards

CBMretrofan · 22 May 2020, 19:43

..Uhh just forget to mention Razor 1911: C64, Amiga and PC

Galahad/FLT · 22 May 2020, 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBMretrofan

Hi,

please consider this question not too stupid to ask..

Having grown up with both the C64 and the Amiga, I always wondered why most of the cracking groups (with a few exceptions like Legend, Fairlight etc.) were big on the Commodore 64 but I did not see cracktros of them on the Amiga.
Ive got my Amiga late but had some good years. As the same with the C64, later I got more interested in cracktros on the Amiga too. I wonder why some of the big players there, werent on the Amiga for example ESI, Hotline, Triad, Genesis and Ikari.
Browsing older cracktros from the Amiga late 80s/ early 90s there were groups like Unit A, Angels, Vision Factory, Black Monks, Horizon, World Of Wonders, Quartex and Defjam which I never saw cracktros on the C64. Was there anything that would separate the groups activities on the machines besides the CPUs, what are your thoughts ?

Best Regards

Most of the early Amiga crack groups were from c64. Quartex for instance was The Dynamic Duo on C64.

I think on Amiga, cracking stepped up a gear, needing more people and thus some felt a new start was required, wanting to forge new groups that didnt rely on an old name to get them respect, wanting instead for their new group to be as respected as the old.

Lots of infighting saw groups die and start new ones, too many badly cracked releases could see your group mocked and releases not trusted meaning having to start again.

Some of the older groups on c64 couldnt compete with the strength of the modem scene and how having the absolute best original supplier could see you unable to compete.

jasonsbeer · 22 May 2020, 20:18

Expertise? Interest?

Both the C64 and 1541 drives were based upon 6502 architecture. Many games on the C64 were "protected" by using custom loading routines on the 1541. The 1541 was it's own computer and could be programmed over the serial connection.

The Amiga, being MC68000 architecture, was a different beast. Copy protections were implemented differently, even if they were the same concepts.

Just thinking out loud. Might be way wrong.

Jope · 22 May 2020, 20:58

Many C64 guys also never went over to the Amiga because of choice, tradition and sometimes also lack of funds.

CBMretrofan · 22 May 2020, 21:25

The combination of the two computers - C64 and Floppy - indeed make up a unique architecture, of course for protection too. For example protection of GEOS on the C64 heavily involved the CPU of the Floppy 1541 aswell. Datasette as a medium and tape cracking was still big, esp in the UK I think. I always wondered why they were cracking the tape originals and not the disks, it didnt seem to be a question of skill.

On the Amiga side, sure it was a different hardware with the custom chips and their part in processing the disk accesses. Deprotecting a title not only requiring "NOP"s (oldschool) to be inserted but often the whole disk to be MFM decoded...and a few other things to be done.

Can imagine that crackers that moved over to the Amiga under a new handle seeked a new promising career and maybe the "old hardware" got them bored too.

zodiac · 22 May 2020, 23:07

Many of them had their acne clear up so they were able to get a girlfriend.

jasonsbeer · 23 May 2020, 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by zodiac

Many of them had their acne clear up so they were able to get a girlfriend.

I had this in the back of my mind, too. You have to consider the demographic of the typical hacker. I would think some (many) of them moved on because they grew out of it, got married, and had kids.

chip · 23 May 2020, 13:06

It's not simply a question of skills ?

I mean, it's probably difficult to have experience on two different machines at the same time

BarryB · 23 May 2020, 18:33

I always wondered how groups came up with their names and nicks used in them!

Jope · 23 May 2020, 18:47

Books, films, personal initials, nicknames.. Sometimes funny results when us non-native speakers tried to choose something badass.. For example Gallstone/Finnish Gold found his handle in the dictionary randomly. "Ok, gallstones are pretty nasty, so I'll be that" :-)

CBMretrofan · 23 May 2020, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope

Books, films, personal initials, nicknames.. Sometimes funny results when us non-native speakers tried to choose something badass.. For example Gallstone/Finnish Gold found his handle in the dictionary randomly. "Ok, gallstones are pretty nasty, so I'll be that" :-)

..gallstones, must have been a medical dictionary he came across

Jope · 23 May 2020, 19:27

Probably a regular finnish-english dictionary. :-)

AmigaHope · 24 May 2020, 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by zodiac

Many of them had their acne clear up so they were able to get a girlfriend.

Europe must have been a special place where they could go on and get girlfriends instead of continuing on as adult loser nerds (who eventually get married way way later because they have money and a mom is desperate to pay for her kids university).

WayneK · 24 May 2020, 14:59

If you look at c64 intros from late 80's, you will see lots of scrolltexts containing stuff like "this is my last crack on c64 I'm moving to Amiga" or "if you can get Amiga originals get in touch"... so while maybe not that many groups moved wholesale to Amiga scene from C64, a huge number of individual sceners did!

CBMretrofan · 24 May 2020, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmigaHope

Europe must have been a special place where they could go on and get girlfriends instead of continuing on as adult loser nerds (who eventually get married way way later because they have money and a mom is desperate to pay for her kids university).

..and let you know they got girlfriends - in their cracktros- , "laid her"

Galahad/FLT · 25 May 2020, 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBMretrofan

..and let you know they got girlfriends - in their cracktros- , "laid her"

Er, not quite.

That is in reference to the protection being cracked, compromised, fucked!

demoniac · 27 May 2020, 05:51

ESI did a few releases on the Amiga.

RedskullDC · 27 May 2020, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonsbeer

I would think some (many) of them moved on because they grew out of it, got married, and had kids.

Married 30 years here, with 2 grandchildren and another on the way.
Hoping I never grow out of it

It does *really* help that the Mrs. is a computer nerd too

All the best,
Red

zodiac · 01 June 2020, 00:23

Best handle ever was a guy named Sleeping Bag. Sleeping Bag are you still out there?

22 May 2020, 19:31	#1
CBMretrofan Registered User Join Date: May 2018 Location: Germany Posts: 32	Cracking groups from the Commodore 64 and Amiga Hi, please consider this question not too stupid to ask.. Having grown up with both the C64 and the Amiga, I always wondered why most of the cracking groups (with a few exceptions like Legend, Fairlight etc.) were big on the Commodore 64 but I did not see cracktros of them on the Amiga. Ive got my Amiga late but had some good years. As the same with the C64, later I got more interested in cracktros on the Amiga too. I wonder why some of the big players there, werent on the Amiga for example ESI, Hotline, Triad, Genesis and Ikari. Browsing older cracktros from the Amiga late 80s/ early 90s there were groups like Unit A, Angels, Vision Factory, Black Monks, Horizon, World Of Wonders, Quartex and Defjam which I never saw cracktros on the C64. Was there anything that would separate the groups activities on the machines besides the CPUs, what are your thoughts ? Best Regards

22 May 2020, 21:25	#6
CBMretrofan Registered User Join Date: May 2018 Location: Germany Posts: 32	The combination of the two computers - C64 and Floppy - indeed make up a unique architecture, of course for protection too. For example protection of GEOS on the C64 heavily involved the CPU of the Floppy 1541 aswell. Datasette as a medium and tape cracking was still big, esp in the UK I think. I always wondered why they were cracking the tape originals and not the disks, it didnt seem to be a question of skill. On the Amiga side, sure it was a different hardware with the custom chips and their part in processing the disk accesses. Deprotecting a title not only requiring "NOP"s (oldschool) to be inserted but often the whole disk to be MFM decoded...and a few other things to be done. Can imagine that crackers that moved over to the Amiga under a new handle seeked a new promising career and maybe the "old hardware" got them bored too. Last edited by CBMretrofan; 22 May 2020 at 21:35.

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22 May 2020, 19:43	#2
CBMretrofan Registered User Join Date: May 2018 Location: Germany Posts: 32	..Uhh just forget to mention Razor 1911: C64, Amiga and PC

22 May 2020, 20:18	#4
jasonsbeer Registered User Join Date: May 2020 Location: Iowa, USA Posts: 150	Expertise? Interest? Both the C64 and 1541 drives were based upon 6502 architecture. Many games on the C64 were "protected" by using custom loading routines on the 1541. The 1541 was it's own computer and could be programmed over the serial connection. The Amiga, being MC68000 architecture, was a different beast. Copy protections were implemented differently, even if they were the same concepts. Just thinking out loud. Might be way wrong.

22 May 2020, 20:58	#5
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	Many C64 guys also never went over to the Amiga because of choice, tradition and sometimes also lack of funds.

22 May 2020, 23:07	#7
zodiac Registered User Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: USA Posts: 167	Many of them had their acne clear up so they were able to get a girlfriend.

23 May 2020, 13:06	#9
chip Registered User Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Italy Age: 49 Posts: 2,942	It's not simply a question of skills ? I mean, it's probably difficult to have experience on two different machines at the same time

23 May 2020, 18:33	#10
BarryB Amigaholic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: UK Posts: 4,676	I always wondered how groups came up with their names and nicks used in them!

23 May 2020, 18:47	#11
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	Books, films, personal initials, nicknames.. Sometimes funny results when us non-native speakers tried to choose something badass.. For example Gallstone/Finnish Gold found his handle in the dictionary randomly. "Ok, gallstones are pretty nasty, so I'll be that" :-)

23 May 2020, 19:27	#13
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	Probably a regular finnish-english dictionary. :-)

24 May 2020, 14:59	#15
WayneK Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Somewhere secret Age: 50 Posts: 364	If you look at c64 intros from late 80's, you will see lots of scrolltexts containing stuff like "this is my last crack on c64 I'm moving to Amiga" or "if you can get Amiga originals get in touch"... so while maybe not that many groups moved wholesale to Amiga scene from C64, a huge number of individual sceners did!

27 May 2020, 05:51	#18
demoniac Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: - Posts: 1,686	ESI did a few releases on the Amiga.

01 June 2020, 00:23	#20
zodiac Registered User Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: USA Posts: 167	Best handle ever was a guy named Sleeping Bag. Sleeping Bag are you still out there?

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