Turrican 30th birthday edition

[Deaths_Head]

Up to now on the PS4, the emulation has been top notch. I completed T1, just started T2, it's impresive how far ahead in evolution the 2nd game was. I frequently go back to T2 on my CD32, but from my point of view this is the definitive way to play them. based on what I've played up to now.

[hexaae]

T3 has rotating enemy sprites... How many Amiga games implemented this?

[Torti-the-Smurf]

I was so hyped but very disappointed.

There are so many bugs in this "Collection".
The worst offender is Super Turrican that has distorted sound in the last levels, especially the Alien train and if you finish the game there is NO MUSIC at all.

Like i said, i am disapointed to say the least. I bought it and will also buy the collectior edition even if i shouldn´t.

At least, i did my part. Do your part Factor 5 and Co !

[Torti-the-Smurf]

Originally Posted by Deaths_Head

Up to now on the PS4, the emulation has been top notch. I completed T1, just started T2, it's impresive how far ahead in evolution the 2nd game was. I frequently go back to T2 on my CD32, but from my point of view this is the definitive way to play them. based on what I've played up to now.

I play those games since 1990 and i finished all the games 100x times.


The first thing i did when i got the collection was to finish those 4 included games; took me 2 hours;
But man, none of those are "top notch".


Actually, those are pretty lame and VERY buggy.
I find it sad to be completly honest. But, still, TURRICAN = AWESOME

[Foebane]

I never got the appeal behind the Turrican games in terms of gameplay, although the Chris Huelsbeck music rocks.

[Torti-the-Smurf]

I guess the freedom of it. Games in those times where very "box like" .Turrican levels where huge and free scrolling;
A kind of "2D open Worlds" . Exploration, Jump, Run,Shoot, all i one and Chris Hülsbeck´s music on top
AND it played so well. I loved it, still do

[Dunny]

Originally Posted by Torti-the-Smurf

Do your part Factor 5 and Co !

Don't get your hopes up. This was called out way back as a cynical low effort cash grab aimed at nostalgic Turrican fans and it's turned out to be exactly that.

[rsn8887]

I love the overall design and style, but I cannot play it with fun. It is just not for me. I only tested it on PS4.

- The autofire can NOT be disabled. I refuse to play Turrican with forced autofire.

- The classic beam control is gone. I refuse to play Turrican with instant beam.

- The input lag is 8 frames, which is 130 ms. This is a bit too high for me to enjoy the games. I can feel the delay after pressing down until the character ducks. Compared to real hardware or MiSTer FPGA or WinUAE lagless vsync mode, this is not snappy enough for me.

Here's my first lag test video recorded in 30 fps: [ Show youtube player ]
And here's my second lag test video recorded in 240 fps: [ Show youtube player ]

In conclusion, this is like a child's play version of Turrican. They made an already easy game even easier. Because of the input lag, it doesn't feel as snappy and responsive as the original. This makes it less enjoyable for me to move around, shoot, and jump, compared to the original.

[ScHlAuChi]

Originally Posted by Torti-the-Smurf

I was so hyped but very disappointed.

There are so many bugs in this "Collection".
The worst offender is Super Turrican that has distorted sound in the last levels, especially the Alien train and if you finish the game there is NO MUSIC at all.

I compared the audio in the Alien levels to the output of higan (most accurate SNES emu) - they were the same so what are you referring to here?
I also played through Super Turrican three times, but the ending music always played, so can you prove your claim that it doesnt play?

Originally Posted by Torti-the-Smurf

There are so many bugs in this "Collection".

Just saying "there is so many bugs" and only naming a single one that I cant even verify means there is no way those "many bugs" will ever get fixed!

Originally Posted by Torti-the-Smurf

The first thing i did when i got the collection was to finish those 4 included games; took me 2 hours. Actually, those are pretty lame and VERY buggy.

If you beat all 4 games in 2h then the only logical conclusion is that you used game breaking speedrunner strategies. As those games are emulated, none of the bugs in the original games were fixed.
You cannot beat those 4 games in 2h in a normal way. As for "Pretty lame and very buggy", that sounds like complete hyperbole, and is not helpful - but that is to be expected on the internet.

[gimbal]

I knew that the name looked familiar Good livestream, enjoyed it a lot.

[ScHlAuChi]

Originally Posted by gimbal

I knew that the name looked familiar Good livestream, enjoyed it a lot.

Will do another one for the Anthology Collection whenever that one is done
All the nice features will be in that one, and ppl will see it isnt just a crappy re-release - in fact another EAB member has been helping with it - Exl

[gimbal]

If you see the other livestream linked above with Chris Huelsbeck then you really get the feeling it was a labor of love. And why wouldn't it be, now you get to play it comfortably on a Switch in widescreen mode with the hud configured as you please and if you want with some cheats. Good stuff.

[Torti-the-Smurf]

Originally Posted by ScHlAuChi

I compared the audio in the Alien levels to the output of higan (most accurate SNES emu) - they were the same so what are you referring to here?
I also played through Super Turrican three times, but the ending music always played, so can you prove your claim that it doesnt play?


Just saying "there is so many bugs" and only naming a single one that I cant even verify means there is no way those "many bugs" will ever get fixed!


If you beat all 4 games in 2h then the only logical conclusion is that you used game breaking speedrunner strategies. As those games are emulated, none of the bugs in the original games were fixed.
You cannot beat those 4 games in 2h in a normal way. As for "Pretty lame and very buggy", that sounds like complete hyperbole, and is not helpful - but that is to be expected on the internet.

Hi Schlauchi and sorry that i was so blunt, but man was i HYPED that day



I want to give some actual feedback,ok. So hear me out please.

First i want want to say that i only finished every game only once, in the trophy modes. I played the PS4 version.


So here are a few of those bug i catched.



( and yes, i play those games since 1990, so i am pretty fast at those games, but you are right, maybe it took longer, like 3 hours - The Worlds Four in Turri 1&2 have legit shortcuts that warp you pretty much through world 4 in both games )



1) The Shell for those games dosent save the settings right, it needed a few tries to really save all the changes i made, especially to the Gfx filters, So that i catched right away and yes, i know that the settings are saved seperate for each game.
Also, The GraphicFilter Preview, some of the changes dosent show up in the Preview. Some do, some dont and for some only show after exiting to the Ingame Menu and lauch the selected title again. Very inconsistence.

2) Turrican 1 can have some slight Gfx glitches in the fist World.
Besides that, not a glitch but why the forced Autofire ? Thats Horribel and should only be an option. It completly change the feeling of the game.
The stuttering is awful and dosent represent the games as they really are.
There must be a way to fix this. Maybe an option for 60Herz with Chris Hülsbeck´s new musik on top, reengineering the original games so the Tempo can be adjusted, something like that I dont know, i just know that they dont feel and play right.


3) The Sound in Super Turrican has way to much bass. I compared it with a real Snes, Canoe, ZSnes and none of those have this much bass. But really, the Alien train Level is total screwed up soundwise. There is so much bass that it overpower the actual music.



I tried the Endsequence this time with the Cheat - This time there was music. So i dont know if that was a one in a million thing. Actually on the real game you can make the game glitchy and do all sort of strange things when you still fire when the Alien Queen goes BOOOM. It can even freeze, so maybe it was a leftover from the "enything goes" glitch with the alien queen, only more testing can sort that out.


4) This is the WORST BUG. The Flashback Collection randomly crashes.


Dosent matter what title you play, even if you not play. It can happen at any point. Once i had MEGA Turrican running in attraction mode for half an hour and suddenly, BOOOM, back to the dashboard, Application crashed.


I think i had 7-10 crashes with version 1.1 just on day One and that is no fun, especially when you try to collect all the gems and life.
Even in the Digital Foundery livestream where chris hülsbeck was present, the game crashed after about 30 minutes. (T_T) So, something isnt right there.

So i hope you can see why i was a little bit ... well, pissed when i got that Collection.


Ît broke my heart a little bit to see my beloved Turrican got such a treadment and Factor 5 that i admire are back with such a Buggy and bare bones product. I was quiet hard for me.


So, i am really sorry that i let it all out without to give a reason.


Maybe you can me understand me a little bit now.


I just want to say sorry and that i admire you SCHLAUCHI


you are the king and to read all those rants from those pesky fanboys must be annoying


Sorry Schlauchi,


Much love and respect from me, little Torti

[ScHlAuChi]

Originally Posted by Torti-the-Smurf

Hi Schlauchi and sorry that i was so blunt, but man was i HYPED that day
I want to give some actual feedback,ok. So hear me out please.
First i want want to say that i only finished every game only once, in the trophy modes. I played the PS4 version.
So here are a few of those bug i catched.
( and yes, i play those games since 1990, so i am pretty fast at those games, but you are right, maybe it took longer, like 3 hours - The Worlds Four in Turri 1&2 have legit shortcuts that warp you pretty much through world 4 in both games )

Just to make one thing clear, im not the coder of the collection - im a designer, I work with the coders to get things done. As a Turrican fanboy myself, I pretty much know what most players would want in this
The problem is, what I want and what gets done dont always work out, as it isnt just down to me - SLG and F5 also have a say - but I try to push hard for certain features spending alot of my own time on them.

1) The Shell for those games dosent save the settings right, it needed a few tries to really save all the changes i made, especially to the Gfx filters, So that i catched right away.

The settings are per game, so you have to set them once for each. Or do you mean something else?

2) Turrican 1 can have some slight Gfx glitches in the fist World.

Those glitches exist in the original game too and can happen randomly - unfortunately the Turrican 1 Source Code was lost, so its unlikely they can ever be fixed without alot of effort.

Besides that, not a glitch but why the forced Autofire ? Thats Horribel and should only be an option. It completly change the feeling of the game.

F5 wanted it that way, but we can try to add an option to turn it off.

The stuttering is awful and dosent represent the games as they really are.There must be a way to fix this.

The problem is that neither Switch nor PS4 supports 50Hz output, so there was nothing that could be done for the Flashback version.

Maybe an option for 60Herz with Chris Hülsbeck´s new musik on top, reengineering the original games so the Tempo can be adjusted, something like that I dont know, i just know that they dont feel and play right.

This is exactly what is planned for the Anthology, wait and see

3) The Sound in Super Turrican has way to much bass. I compared it with a real Snes, Canoe, ZSnes and none of those have this much bass. But really, the Alien train Level is total screwed up soundwise. There is so much bass that it overpower the actual music.

I can ask one of the programmers to look into that, but I have no idea if that can be fixed.

I tried the Endsequence this time with the Cheat - This time there was music. So i dont know if that was a one in a million thing.

It was most likely a bug in the original game that happens rarely.

Actually on the real game you can make the game glitchy and do all sort of strange things when you still fire when the Alien Queen goes BOOOM. It can even freeze, so maybe it was a leftover from the "enything goes" glitch with the alien queen, only more testing can sort that out.

Yep, if you fire a powerline while the queen explodes, it crashes the game instantly due to sprite overload. We fixed that bug by checking "is queen dead" and if yes we block all the pad buttons, so it cant crash.

4) This is the WORST BUG. The Flashback Collection randomly crashes. Dosent matter what title you play, even if you not play. It can happen at any point. Once i had MEGA Turrican running in attraction mode for half an hour and suddenly, BOOOM, back to the dashboard, Application crashed. I think i had 7-10 crashes with version 1.1 and that is no fun, especially when you try to collect all the gems and life.

A memory leak in was found last week, it affects mainly Switch and on PS4 when you play a really long time - it is already fixed in the 1.02 patch that should be out in the next days.

So i hope you can see why i was a little bit ... well, pissed when i got that Collection.
Ît broke my heart a little bit to see my beloved Turrican got such a treadment and Factor 5 that i admire are back with such a Buggy and bare bones product. I was quiet hard for me.

Factor 5 doesnt have that much to do with it overall, they have bigger fish to fry now that they are part of Epic and work on Fortnite. But some of them are working on the Score-Attack Mini Games on the side.

So, i am really sorry that i let it all out without to give a reason.
Maybe you can me understand me a little bit now.
I just want to say sorry and that i admire you SCHLAUCHI
you are the king and to read all those rants from those pesky fanboys must be annoying
Sorry Schlauchi,
Much love and respect from me, little Torti

Its fine, but people should realize that just ranting without pointing out the problems that need fixing is just not helpful for devs and will usually lead to them ignoring it

Also one more thing - the Flashback Collection is meant for the mainstream, the Anthology Collection is the one for fans that will have alot of nice extra features!

[Torti-the-Smurf]

Hi Schlauchi and thanks for the response.

I made a re-edit of point 1) above, hope that helps.

Turrican 1 can have super minor Gfx gliches in world 1 on actual Hardware, mostly when not played from a cold/fresh boot, i find; like in the WHDLoad version. I have never seen it there.

The slight GfxGliches in the collection happen in different spots where i have never senn them since 1990, but they are also super minor, so, not a big deal really

I learned with the Turri Collection that the never consoles dosent support 50hz anymore which is really a shame, especially in cases like this.

About the forced autofire. That was a request from Factor 5 ? Seriously - Who ? XD
It changes so much of the feeling, like for example , everytime i hit the Fire Button in Turri 2 with the FAT LASER , it just feels so good (T_T)

Anyway, i am really greatful that you are trying to make this the best as it can be.

Thank you Schlauchi

[dreadnought]

This whole thing really is a masterclass in "How To Milk An Old IP"

First, release several "limited" physical editions, split into parts and ranging from pricey to ridiculous, with no word of digital download. Wait till everybody snaps it up, release a bare bones digital download pack "for the mainstream", since casuals don't need any extras or 60hz gameplay, but are okay to fork out 30USD for four old games in an emu wrapper.

But then, as it was explained earlier, tweaking some code and designing a boxed edition is apparently a monumental task, so I'm sure all this is well justified.

[gimbal]

It's also a monumental task to just wave your hand at things and say they're nothing.

[rsn8887]

For anyone like me who copied the games back in the day like a little thief, now is the time to buy them and show respect.

That's mainly why I ordered the physical anthology editions.

I can play this stuff on my MiSTer with almost perfect authenticity and zero lag.

[ScHlAuChi]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

This whole thing really is a masterclass in "How To Milk An Old IP"

You have already proven earlier in this thread that you arent interested in the realities of what it means releasing an old game.

First, release several "limited" physical editions, split into parts and ranging from pricey to ridiculous, with no word of digital download.

You must have missed the part where Strictly Limited Games is a publisher of PHYSICAL games - how dare them to follow their business model when they financed the whole thing.

Wait till everybody snaps it up, release a bare bones digital download pack "for the mainstream"

We wouldnt have this dumb conversation if it wasnt for SLG pushing for this collection for years. F5 wouldnt really have any need to do it, as they have bigger fish to fry now that they are owned by Epic and work on Fortnite.

since casuals don't need any extras or 60hz gameplay

It seems reading isnt your strong point - it was already explained in this thread why the 60Hz mode wasnt possible for the Flashback Collection.
If you arent a casual just get the Anthology Collection that has all the extras - problem solved!

But are okay to fork out 30USD for four old games in an emu wrapper. But then, as it was explained earlier, tweaking some code and designing a boxed edition is apparently a monumental task, so I'm sure all this is well justified.

You also decided to ignore my detailed explanation why it isnt that simple to just "emu-wrap" an old game.
As for the price - Nintendo sold unaltered digital Roms of games without any extras for 4.99$ - SLG adding 10$ for a physical box and some extra work isnt asked too much - but how dare them wanting to make back the money they invested!
But since its all so easy, I`m sure SLG is happy to hire an expert like you for 10k a month, as after all, with your expertise they will easily save alot of money when you show them how its done!

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present: a masterclass of a person talking out of their ass!

[rare_j]

Originally Posted by rsn8887

- The input lag is 8 frames, which is 130 ms. This is a bit too high for me to enjoy the games. I can feel the delay after pressing down until the character ducks. Compared to real hardware or MiSTer FPGA or WinUAE lagless vsync mode, this is not snappy enough for me.

60hz stuttering, crashes, and 8 frames of lag - this is not very good, even for a 'casual' player.
Maybe this collection would have been better off as a Windows PC only release where at least many of these big technical issues would never have come up in the first place.