AmigaOS 3.2 released!

[rutra80]

Isn't this what AROS is all about?

[Ami603]

Originally Posted by rutra80

Isn't this what AROS is all about?

If aros was born for replacing amigaos because of lack of official developmenth,nowadays active development of amigaos makes it redundant imho.

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by Ami603

If aros was born for replacing amigaos because of lack of official developmenth,nowadays active development of amigaos makes it redundant imho.

No. AROS was created to get it running on a better ISA (X86). And the 3.2 branch is good what it was designed for but certainly missing a lot of stuff in todays terms

[AMIGASYSTEM]

Originally Posted by Ami603

If aros was born for replacing amigaos because of lack of official developmenth,nowadays active development of amigaos makes it redundant imho.

AROS has a lot of possibilities to grow, if some developers would cooperate, AROS could come out of the Niche, this is due to the fact that it can exploit and run on modern, powerful and cheap PC hardware.

AmigaOS runs only on old hardware from 30 years ago and this makes it an obsolete system and unattractive to new users, consequently in a decade it will not know anyone except a few lovers of old games.

[Thomas Richter]

Originally Posted by OlafSch

No. AROS was created to get it running on a better ISA (X86). And the 3.2 branch is good what it was designed for but certainly missing a lot of stuff in todays terms

Wether x86 is a better ISA is certainly debatable. It is surely an ISA for which cheap and powerful processors are available, but that is not quite the same.

[Thomas Richter]

Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM

AROS has a lot of possibilities to grow, if some developers would cooperate, AROS could come out of the Niche, this is due to the fact that it can exploit and run on modern, powerful and cheap PC hardware.

AmigaOS runs only on old hardware from 30 years ago and this makes it an obsolete system and unattractive to new users, consequently in a decade it will not know anyone except a few lovers of old games.

Not really. The problem is that AROS is based on the same construction as AmigaOs, and contains due to that many architectural "constraints" (to put it this way) which prevents features that would be required by any modern computer system and be needed for today's demands.

To mention the most obvious ones: Computing today means "internet accessibility, everywhere" and "services in the cloud". AmigaOs and thus AROS has no means of securing accesses to its assets (files, memory, other resources) and thus is by construction utterly unable to address any modern needs. I would never run a banking service on Amiga, for example. It is just a pipe dream that AROS could, at some point, deliver such services as it contradicts how AmigaOs works (lightweight, no memory protection).

If you would want to go in this direction you would need to ditch AmigaOs, AROS, and start from scratch. That would be, however, a system that has almost nothing in common with AmigaOs... leaving such details aside as "who would use it" and "where does software for such an exotic system come from", and "why not just use a secure existing Os to begin with instead of a new one with no big vendor behind it".

The computer market today works completely different than it did in the 1990s when the Amiga entered the market, and you cannot just carry over its success from the past to 2023.

[AMIGASYSTEM]

Yes all true what you say, but AROS for the reasons mentioned can live on, while Amiga in the future can only be Emulated.

Amiga hardware will not be able to live indefinitely, and especially the Amiga technical experts are now old in age and in a few decades it will be difficult to find one.

[Thomas Richter]

Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM

Yes all true what you say, but AROS for the reasons mentioned can live on, while Amiga in the future can only be Emulated.

Amiga hardware will not be able to live indefinitely, and especially the Amiga technical experts are now old in age and in a few decades it will be difficult to find one.

And why would anyone care about a bad Os, without the original bad (outdated) hardware underneath? What matters are the old applications, and those I can only run in emulation (in one way or another) in first place.

[OlafSch]

@Thomas Richter

"Better" is perhaps the wrong phrase. More powerful would describe it better.

Regarding AROS or AmigaOS there are certainly weknesses that cannot be overcome without rewriting most of the system. I am interested in using Linux as a base, current NG systems certainly have no chance. And even then we will see what happens.

@Amigasystem

I would not say AmigaOS is in any case not interesting to new users. There are new users joining but certainly most of them are former amiga users. It is part of retro today.

[AMIGASYSTEM]

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

And why would anyone care about a bad Os, without the original bad (outdated) hardware underneath?

https://en.wikibooks.org/w/index.php...zalia%E2%80%9D

https://ae.amigalife.org/index.php?topic=1063.0

Originally Posted by OlafSch

I would not say AmigaOS is in any case not interesting to new users. There are new users joining but certainly most of them are former amiga users. It is part of retro today.

OlafSch try asking around to all the young people you meet on the street, you will see that almost nobody knows Amiga, that is the reality.

Most of today's Amiga users are just old gamers and many of them don't know AmigaOS, only interested in the game, you only have to read the various posts on the forums to realize that.

[rutra80]

There is absolutely no future for everyday use of anything Amiga as we know it. This is purely a retro nostalgia and keeping the legacy functional for historical reasons. We are here because of love, not because of usefulness. There really isn't anything wrong in visiting your granny and making her life better and longer without wanting anything practical in return That's actually how things should be.
New users... There will hardly be any. Only those interested in retro systems due to nostalgia or historical reasons.

[BigD]

Originally Posted by rutra80

New users... There will hardly be any. Only those interested in retro systems due to nostalgia or historical reasons.

Here's an idea; introduce your kids, nephews and nieces to the Amiga including the productivity packages and they WILL remember it. If you throw an iPad at kids to shut them then don't be surprised when they prefer Roblox to DPaint!

[AMIGASYSTEM]

BigD, the children the grandchildren, when they look at Amiga it's like looking at an Auto from the past, once they see it, then it ends there.

Young people today love other things like cell phones tablets, of the old computers they don't know what to do with them, the reality is this, don't look at things with your own eyes !

[rutra80]

Originally Posted by BigD

Here's an idea; introduce your kids, nephews and nieces to the Amiga including the productivity packages and they WILL remember it. If you throw an iPad at kids to shut them then don't be surprised when they prefer Roblox to DPaint!

But there are more useful productivity packages for today platforms.
You see, Amiga was a thing in our times - it had great hardware & software for its days and we spent a lot of great time with our friends playing or coding/painting/composing on Amiga.
And today Roblox and Visual Studio/Photoshop/Ableton is a thing and that's how our kids will spend time with their friends, and that's what will get grown into their brains and what they will remember with nostalgia in 30 years.

I hope this is not getting too off topic or sound pessimistic/detrimental... I love the mindset behind AmigaOS 3.2 and all Amiga developments - I purchase it, support, and hope that the guys developing everything have as much fun developing as I do using it! But lets be realistic and not venture into making Amiga great again fantasy

Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM

when they look at Amiga it's like looking at an Auto from the past

Yeah, we may love that legacy Mercedes from 60s but there's not a single thing that makes it more useful than todays Ford Fiesta. And making it a Ford Fiesta would be a blasphemy! And still it wouldn't be as useful and our kids wouldn't buy it.

[Ami603]

What i would like to know, is which kind of devices/libraries would be needed in order to make amigaos 3.2.x standalone on a raspberry under emu68k besides rtg?

[BigD]

Originally Posted by rutra80

But there are more useful productivity packages for today platforms.
You see, Amiga was a thing in our times - it had great hardware & software for its days and we spent a lot of great time with our friends playing or coding/painting/composing on Amiga.
And today Roblox and Visual Studio/Photoshop/Ableton is a thing and that's how our kids will spend time with their friends, and that's what will get grown into their brains and what they will remember with nostalgia in 30 years.

I don't agree and the only thing that come close that they teach at school is Scratch. It is the modern equivalent of the LOGO Turtle for BBC Basic in the 1980s. It is FAR more visual and helps get kids into coding AND animation. For flick-book style animation and Desktop Publishing etc the Amiga is STILL 99% more fun for primary school age children! Introduce them to it and see but yes if you leave it until they are 12 years old they will react like the kids in the 80s Cafe in Back to the Future Part 2!!

[E-Penguin]

The neighbourhood kids frequently turn up at my house to play on the AmigaCD32; Brian the Lion is a favourite. My son introduced them to it and they're young enough not to all be brainwashed by Playstation/Xbox.

They were utterly perplexed by Super Skidmarks though. "But why a cow?"

[AMIGASYSTEM]

@BigD

Yes it is true that children are still fascinated by Amiga Games, but in the late 1980s so were adults.

The same children who like to play with old Amiga games today, as soon as they are grown up they will forget them, as normally happens with toys, of this I have proof !


Of course some children maybe because of parents having an Amiga at home will remain the memory and still play with it, but these are sporadic cases.

[BigD]

Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM

Of course some children maybe because of parents having an Amiga at home will remain the memory and still play with it, but these are sporadic cases.

Well if more Amigans actually introduced the children to the machines rather than just moaning on forums then there would be more chance that they'd remember the experience of using them! If you go to Amiga meets then take your children. If you mess around with DPaint, Lightwave, Scala, Backbone or Scorpion Engine then show them what you're doing and let them have a go! C= hardly marketed the Amiga at all and yet a mixture of word of mouth, piracy and a few choice bundle pack from David Pleasance was enough to get a thriving scene going in the UK! It can happen again with a mixture of THEA500 Mini, emulation and people dusting off and Vamping or PiStorming their old machines!!

[shades_aus]

@Thomas

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

Not really. The problem is that AROS is based on the same construction as AmigaOs, and contains due to that many architectural "constraints" (to put it this way) which prevents features that would be required by any modern computer system and be needed for today's demands.

To mention the most obvious ones: Computing today means "internet accessibility, everywhere" and "services in the cloud". AmigaOs and thus AROS has no means of securing accesses to its assets (files, memory, other resources) and thus is by construction utterly unable to address any modern needs. I would never run a banking service on Amiga, for example. It is just a pipe dream that AROS could, at some point, deliver such services as it contradicts how AmigaOs works (lightweight, no memory protection).

If you would want to go in this direction you would need to ditch AmigaOs, AROS, and start from scratch. That would be, however, a system that has almost nothing in common with AmigaOs... leaving such details aside as "who would use it" and "where does software for such an exotic system come from", and "why not just use a secure existing Os to begin with instead of a new one with no big vendor behind it".

The computer market today works completely different than it did in the 1990s when the Amiga entered the market, and you cannot just carry over its success from the past to 2023.

Gee, I don't know about this. I cannot agree.
Why?

HAIKU (a compatible BeOS that died a long time ago) is just as old and has managed to get much further up to date than AMIGA OS 3x.
I see no reason that AROS couldn't do the same with the constant development.
Maybe they have secret funding? Maybe their developers are just more active and there is more interest in the obscure BeOS
Maybe it's just that their developers are more passionate.
Either way, AROS certainly could get to the same stage.