PC games that made the Amiga look like Shit

[stevelord]

Originally Posted by Zak

It must hurt you to admit that the A4000 is not a user friendly plug and play machine like the A500, just insert a disk and go. It is not common knowledge about a computer to use special rare software to get something to run. A computer must be able to run software without rare third party solutions. Also a platform problem.

It's a pro machine that came with a hard drive but you can still boot off floppy. TUDE isn't exactly rare, Relokick disks aren't rare. Using the boot menu is documented in the manual. If you had an A4000/030 turning off caches in the boot menu would fix most compatibility issues. The remaining compatibility issues with older games typically affected A1200s, but also in many cases A500+ machines.



All that aside, you wouldn't buy a Lamborghini for the shopping run and likewise the A4000 was never meant to be a games machine, it was just a pretty good one thanks to the lineage. Besides, it's 2022. It's not like I only have one machine capable of playing Amiga games anymore.

[Megalomaniac]

When I saw the compatibility lists when the A1200 launched, it did put me off slightly. It made me think I couldn't replace my A500 with one, I'd have to keep both machines, at least until I got bored of the games on the list.

Incidentally, was it widely known that the Lotus games work on an A1200 if it has Fast RAM? Maybe this is old news, but does anyone know the technical explanation for this, considering that they don't normally need FastRAM on a 68000 Amiga?

As for EHB, how many games used it? Black Crypt is one, that looks pretty impressive compared to the Beholder games (not my kind of thing so never played it), but that's something that would benefit from having more dark colours on offer.

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by Megalomaniac

As for EHB, how many games used it? Black Crypt is one, that looks pretty impressive compared to the Beholder games (not my kind of thing so never played it), but that's something that would benefit from having more dark colours on offer.

Desert Strike, Simon The Sorcerer ECS, Lionheart (only caverns level), The Settlers....

[Zak]

Originally Posted by stevelord

It's a pro machine that came with a hard drive but you can still boot off floppy. TUDE isn't exactly rare, Relokick disks aren't rare. Using the boot menu is documented in the manual. If you had an A4000/030 turning off caches in the boot menu would fix most compatibility issues. The remaining compatibility issues with older games typically affected A1200s, but also in many cases A500+ machines.



All that aside, you wouldn't buy a Lamborghini for the shopping run and likewise the A4000 was never meant to be a games machine, it was just a pretty good one thanks to the lineage. Besides, it's 2022. It's not like I only have one machine capable of playing Amiga games anymore.

I read the manual and I tried turning off the caches with the boot menu, but in most cases this didn't fix anything. I never used software though to downgrade my Amiga. In the computer store, no one would tell you that, I didn't have internet and it was basically secret knowledge that wasn't public. At least not in computer stores. When I had internet, I switched to PC, because the A4000 stank so much, I tried to use internet with my A4000, but it just wasn't the good thing with IBrowse and all of the network software was just terrible.

I could learn today how to better use the A4000, but it's in the attic and I don't have space in my appartment to use the machines. So I don't really care at the moment. They will be deteriorated in a few years anyway. I do play the A500 games with WinUAE though. But that's just insert a disk and go and not a computer science degree.

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by jizmo

In my experience EHB is rarely that usable in these generic conversions, as one really has to plan the image accordingly if you really want the full mileage out of it. Shadows and other places where you don't mind getting unwanted tones are quite ok, smooth and controlled gradients not.

Here in this picture I'd guess you could save 3-7 color slots using EHB so that you could then use a few more color steps in the original 32 color palette, making the for example the submarine a bit smoother, but the background gradient would not benefit that much without changing it drastically.

And if you'd be changing the background, adding additional elements like texture, bubbles etc to it would in any case hide the missing tones better than EHB.

What About SHAM?

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=1205798

https://www.liquisearch.com/hold-and..._ham_mode_sham

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by Megalomaniac

It astonishes me that people (mostly in the US) used PCs for games before VGA and proper sound cards came along

The reason is very simple - that's what you had. The computer was bought for 'serious' use (otherwise you couldn't justify the price), but of course you wanted to play games on it too.

Even if you knew the Amiga existed (most didn't) you weren't going to buy one just to play games. Best to block it out of your mind and pretend it didn't exist, or deride it for being 'just' a games machine, or point out all of its purported failings compared to the PC (while praying that some day the PC would be good enough to make it true).

A standard business PC had monochrome text and possibly 1 bit graphics. But some had CGA, and then you were in Heaven. 320x200 in 4 glorious colors with a fixed palette! 'PC speaker' sound playing songs one note at a time or scratchy 1 bit samples that froze the game while playing!

Millions of PC owners were so desperate for games of any quality that software publishers happily ported awesome Amiga games like Defender of the Crown to the PC in CGA, even though it looked like shit. PC users would eat that turd right up and ask for more! Well OK, it does look like shit, but who cares - it still plays, right? And soon we will have better graphics and sound that make the Amiga look like shit, like we always knew it was!

And they were right. The PC had that one all-important feature that the Amiga could never provide - IBM compatibility. IBM invented the personal computer in 1981, making every other home computer architecture irrelevant. Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM, but if you bought something other than a PC you would regret it. The PC was everywhere - in the office, the home, the news, the bookstores. Numerous magazines kept you up to date with the latest PC hardware and software, and also constantly affirmed the fact that no other platform worth mentioning existed.

You have to give IBM credit for coming up with the all-encompassing brand name 'Personal Computer', and for going against their nature by making the design open source. Because that's what people wanted - a standard architecture backed by the biggest most prestigious computer manufucturer in the world, that anyone could clone and improve upon to their heart's content. No more worrying about whether you were buying into the 'right' system - and even it was a turd now, everyone knew the industry would eventually polish the shit right out of it.

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by Zak

In the computer store, no one would tell you that, I didn't have internet and it was basically secret knowledge that wasn't public.

Back in the day there was a thing called "magazines":
monthly recurring printed publications with lots of "secret" knowledge.

When I had internet, I switched to PC, because the A4000 stank so much, I tried to use internet with my A4000, but it just wasn't the good thing with IBrowse and all of the network software was just terrible.

LOL
Windows and PCs were actually late in the internet game!
AMosaic was released 1993 - the same year as the unix variant.

Anyways ... your wording ("stank so much") makes it clear, that you are just a troll.

[Zak]

Originally Posted by Gorf

Back in the day there was a thing called "magazines":
monthly recurring printed publications with lots of "secret" knowledge.




LOL
Windows and PCs were actually late in the internet game!
AMosaic was released 1993 - the same year as the unix variant.

Anyways ... your wording ("stank so much") makes it clear, that you are just a troll.

There were no magazines anymore, when I got my A4000/030/50Mhz, it was after Commodore went bankcrupt in 1994, and all retailers took Amiga magazines off the shelf where I live. And I am not a troll, I am just disappointed by the A4000. It was too slow for Quake, too bad for the internet, and too bad for old games. The PC was just the better choice. I just thought I get it because of nostalgia and good memories with the old Amigas.

[sokolovic]

Yeah. You wouldn't buy and A4000 in a supermarket or a game store but in specialized stored where peoples usually were competent to give you advices on the best way to use it. Maybe he was a little ashamed to say that he was buying an A4000 to use pre 1989 software on it.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Gorf

LOL
Windows and PCs were actually late in the internet game!
AMosaic was released 1993 - the same year as the unix variant.

Thomas R. Bruce of the Legal Information Institute at Cornell Law School started 1992, to develop Cello. When released on 8 June 1993 it was one of the first graphical web browsers, and the first to run on Windows: Windows 3.1, NT 3.5, and OS/2.

However, the explosion in popularity of the Web was triggered by NCSA Mosaic which was a graphical browser running originally on Unix and soon ported to the Amiga and VMS platforms, and later the Apple Macintosh and Microsoft Windows platforms. Version 1.0 was released in September 1993, and was dubbed the killer application of the Internet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...world_wide_web

[sokolovic]

Hoping to play a 1996 game that recquired a very avanced PC on the lowest version of a 1992 machine... (By the way the A4000 030 was 25mhz...).

[d4rk3lf]

My first Amiga was A1200, and I've played a lot's of OCS games.

My experience is that it was 60% (or even more) works right from the get go.
For the remaining 40%, vast majority worked if you tried some combinations in boot options, or if you start game from Workbench, from Directory Opus (or both methods).

There was really a very small amount of games that ddn't worked at all... I can recall that I couldn't start Moonstone (after the intro animation)... and can't recall any other games... there were probably more, but I remember only Moonstone.

[Zak]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Hoping to play a 1996 game that recquired a very avanced PC on the lowest version of a 1992 machine... (By the way the A4000 030 was 25mhz...).

No, not mine, at the store they sold it to me with 50Mhz. I got the 25Mhz as additional card but never used it. Later I got a 68060 for the machine and put the 68030 into a A1200 Blizzard 1230 card. With the 68060 Quake wasn't any better and there was even less software to use. Then I got my PC.

[sokolovic]

Let suppose what you are saying is true. Quake was released in 1998 on the Amiga. The game is much faster on a 68060 VS a 68030/50mhz (there is absolutely no doubt about that) although not as much on a Pentium PC.
But that also mean that you were able to put a CD-Rom drive on your 4000 and somehow buy a game that was only available in small specialized retailers or via magazines.
How are we supposed to believe that you didn't know how to obtain or use such a basic software like a system degrader to use old games ?

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by Megalomaniac

PC speaker was worse than the Spectrum

PC speaker was worse then silence.

[Zak]

Because it's a matter of fact. Everything Amiga (software or hardware) I bought was from my local computer store and I didn't have internet before 1998. And even then, I never came across Degrader. When you don't know such a thing exists, how would you even search for something alike? And the 68060 didn't speed up the machine so much, because I noticed that I have 16 bit Chip Ram in my machine and that just slowed down everything.

Edit: when you want to know my exact pathway on computers, my brother got an A500 in 1987, I later got one in early 1990. I later bought used PC's 286 and 486sx. Those were my computers for a long time. Later I bought an Amiga Technologies A4000T with 68030/50 Mhz. They said it would be more compatible than the 68040/25 which I don't have. I also go the 68030/25Mhz card with it, with no extra charge. Maybe the processor is special? I later got an A1200 from my old school buddy and on the 68020 you get to run more software. On the 68030 it's terrible. On my A4000T I made my first internet experiences and then I got a Windos 98 machine. When you don't believe me, I will make photographs.

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by Zak

I read the manual and I tried turning off the caches with the boot menu, but in most cases this didn't fix anything. I never used software though to downgrade my Amiga. In the computer store, no one would tell you that, I didn't have internet and it was basically secret knowledge that wasn't public.

I bet they would tell you how to modify your config.sys to get enough memory to play those DOS games though, right? Or sell you upgrades or a whole new PC if your current machine didn't meet the game's system requirements ($$$).

I owned a computer shop selling PCs and Amigas throughout the 90's. To check compatibility of Amiga games I just booted them on the shop's A500, A3000, and A1200. But with PC games that wasn't possible due to the infinite number of possible configurations, so I was hesitant to stock them. When I did sell a PC game I offered to get it working for free if the customer couldn't (provided their machine met the system requirements). Sometimes even I was stumped. It was a nightmare!

At least not in computer stores.

So these computer stores didn't sell Amiga magazines with cover disks? I commiserate. When I got my A1000 in 1987 there was no local store selling them (or much of anything apart from high priced business PCs). A friend had subscribed to Amiga World (the US magazine) though, and a guy running an arcade in the next city sold some Amiga stuff on the side. A few years later a home computer store opened in my city selling Commodore stuff. I got friendly with the manager and when the store chain went bankrupt in 1991 I took over the shop.

If it hadn't been for that shop I would have been reliant on mail order and the local computer club. Our club had a strict anti-piracy policy, but we imported freeware 'fish' disks and Aminet collections. Before the internet many people conversed and shared stuff via bullitin boards, which were linked worldwide through Fidonet. I ran a bullitin board on an A2000 in my shop.

But for those who didn't care about being honest there was no shortage of pirated games in New Zealand, and that was where many Kiwi Amiga users got their 'support'.

When I had internet, I switched to PC, because the A4000 stank so much, I tried to use internet with my A4000, but it just wasn't the good thing with IBrowse and all of the network software was just terrible.

I didn't have quite the same experience. My A3000 worked fine on the shop's network, and IBrowse did the job OK until the early 2000's when those Netscape extensions etc. made it difficult for everyone who didn't have a PC or a Mac.

I could learn today how to better use the A4000, but it's in the attic and I don't have space in my appartment to use the machines. So I don't really care at the moment. They will be deteriorated in a few years anyway.

A4000's are quite valuable now. If you haven't already done so, you should remove the Ni-MH clock battery and clean up any corrosion. That way you will protect your investment.

I do play the A500 games with WinUAE though. But that's just insert a disk and go and not a computer science degree.

...once you have it set up correctly. It's even easier on a real Amiga.

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by Zak

And I am not a troll, I am just disappointed by the A4000. It was too slow for Quake, too bad for the internet, and too bad for old games. The PC was just the better choice.

Any PC from 1992 is too slow for Quake as well - what the hell did you expect?

And again: in the 90s the Amiga really did a fine job for the internet.
Via modem or network card. Both was working pretty well and was less hassle than on most PCs before Microsoft finally included modem software and IE.

I did use my A3000 exclusively at home until 2001 for work, gaming and internet and could compare it to Unix, Windows and Linux at my university ... except for the slow modem speed at home, there was simply no disadvantage using my A3000.

[sokolovic]

It is very hard to believe that you bought an A4000 by 1994, upgraded it with a 68060 and kept it up until 1998 without bothering to ask to your local retailer (who surely knews this domaine considering Amiga retailer selling upgraded A4000 and expansion cards surely knews something called aminet and how to get software on it) if there was a possibility to enhance compatibility of your machine with older Amiga software. (And just ask if it was normal that only 10% of the software supposedly worked on the machine you bought him and kept upgrading).
At best your memory is playing with you, if You're not playing with us.

[gimbal]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

PC speaker was worse then silence.

Amen. Although pc speakers were absolutely not made equal, some were a lot more earwax liquifying than others.