A new, low-cost CD32 Expansion?

[plasmab]

Originally Posted by Amigajay

I see, shame you don't plan to sell them, its great that you are going open source, and i believe there is enough people interested in CD32 boards of different types, but to buy not to create themselves, i may be wrong of course, not many people come along like you to get the ball rolling, so please continue in whatever way you personally want, i hope another comes along will continue the work after you have finished.

Thankyou!

I am speaking to Cosmos Amiga and Exxos (Atari ST) about what they would like to sell in their shops and I'll tailor the Rev 2/3 versions of boards to those requirements. Initial versions (Rev 1) are pure research boards.

[wmsteele]

Exciting times for the old CD32… if you need any local testers let me know

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by Akira

I can think of a whole list of reasons not to put an accelerated CPU in a CD32 at all. Sticking to RAM and IDE/CF would be best.

If you want to use the CD32 as an improved console then I agree.
But if you want to save some desk space and make the CD32 your only Amiga, then yes, adding faster CPU, keyboards and what not, makes sense.
The best expansion card would probably be modular in design. A main board with the basic stuff like IDE, Fastmem, RGB out. Then it would have some expansion slots for CPU (or FPGA), Connector for WiFi module ( like the V500 V2+).

Maybe we should have a new thread for the "perfect cd32 expansion wish list" ;-)

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[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

Maybe we should have a new thread for the "perfect cd32 expansion wish list" ;-)

There's no such thing, because everyone will have its own idea of what that is.
As said, this thread is about a low-cost, (mass?)produced expansion those who want to make the CD32 a better GAMES CONSOLE can use.

Turning the CD32 into a fully fledged computer is a bit of a different topic altogether. Although I don't see any advantage (lack of expansions is already a problem enough, when you can get a cheaper A1200 and expand it right now), to each one their own.

And since plasmab just wants to design this as a challenge, he can do whatever he well pleases!
This is just not what *we*, I think, are looking for n this thread (since I am guessing at least 90% of people here cannot in any way make themselves such hardware, even if they had access to documents on how to produce them). It's only low-cost if you know what you are doing

[FOL]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

If you want to use the CD32 as an improved console then I agree.
But if you want to save some desk space and make the CD32 your only Amiga, then yes, adding faster CPU, keyboards and what not, makes sense.
The best expansion card would probably be modular in design. A main board with the basic stuff like IDE, Fastmem, RGB out. Then it would have some expansion slots for CPU (or FPGA), Connector for WiFi module ( like the V500 V2+).

Maybe we should have a new thread for the "perfect cd32 expansion wish list" ;-)

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I agree with Akira, HDD and Fast RAM. Thats all that is needed. Messing with CPU, will break stuff.

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by FOL

I agree with Akira, HDD and Fast RAM. Thats all that is needed. Messing with CPU, will break stuff.

I dont see how my post excludes the above. ;-)
As a owner of 3 CD32s Im well aware of what it can and cant do and *personally* I only use it for CD32 games. For this, I too would only "need" IDE, some FastRam, RGB out. Such a board should be easy enough to produce at a reasonable cost. Making it affordable for most ppl.
That being said.. *IF* you could design it to be expandable with later add on cards, then why not, right? (Although, yea, it would make the first board more complicated).
Perhaps its better to make two different designs. The other being a more advanced one but building upon the first one. I question the size of the market though.. Thats why I thought a modular approach was more attractive..

If no one wanted to expand their CD32s to full A1200s, then why are SX32 (and variants) prices so crazy high?

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[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

If no one wanted to expand their CD32s to full A1200s, then why are SX32 (and variants) prices so crazy high?

This is where logic stops to let inanity take place.

Prices of things on eBay do NOT mean anything regarding what people want to do with these old machines. Just because an expansion/peripheral is crazy expensive doesn't mean that 1) everybody wants it or 2) that is THE way people want to use a machine.

I would take into account what people say in these boards of USERS a lot more than the PRICE that COLLECTORS put on things on eBay. Are we going to judge things around us by how expensive they are, especially in such an artificially-inflated market?

[plasmab]

Originally Posted by Akira

This is where logic stops to let inanity take place.

Prices of things on eBay do NOT mean anything regarding what people want to do with these old machines. Just because an expansion/peripheral is crazy expensive doesn't mean that 1) everybody wants it or 2) that is THE way people want to use a machine.

I would take into account what people say in these boards of USERS a lot more than the PRICE that COLLECTORS put on things on eBay. Are we going to judge things around us by how expensive they are, especially in such an artificially-inflated market?

I cant comment on how many people would use the CPU features. But I can say that I could make the boards in such a ways as the pads are present but do not need to be populated without adding much cost at all. This way you have both options and only a tiny cost increase.

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by Akira

This is where logic stops to let inanity take place.

Prices of things on eBay do NOT mean anything regarding what people want to do with these old machines. Just because an expansion/peripheral is crazy expensive doesn't mean that 1) everybody wants it or 2) that is THE way people want to use a machine.

I would take into account what people say in these boards of USERS a lot more than the PRICE that COLLECTORS put on things on eBay. Are we going to judge things around us by how expensive they are, especially in such an artificially-inflated market?

I never mentioned ebay ;-)
I do however observe that the cd32 expansions are very hard to find at all, regardless of price. I don't really know how many were made, and neither of us knows how many of those are in the hands of collectors vs actual users. I would like to think that at least some of the owners actually use them.

But just to be clear on the broader topic. I'm all for a new low cost expansion that would bring IDE, RGB out and FastMem. I think we can agree on that part.

However, if the point with such an expansion is to give ppl the ability to run say WHDLoad then they *will* be trying to play games made for accelerated Amigas, wont they?. ;-)
(As if some of the official CD32 releases werent dead slow already (Fears, Frontier, Alien Breed 3d, Gunship 2000 etc..))

So if @plasmab can make an affordable expansion + optional CPU (as stated in previous comment in post above.) I say, go for it. Ideally, there would be a boot option to enable or disable the faster CPU.

[alenppc]

Originally Posted by plasmab

I cant comment on how many people would use the CPU features. But I can say that I could make the boards in such a ways as the pads are present but do not need to be populated without adding much cost at all. This way you have both options and only a tiny cost increase.

If you're gonna add a CPU anyways, why not go straight for the 68060? The 68040 is crap and it overheats like crazy. Adding an LC060 can be done without even having to patch the rom.

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by alenppc

If you're gonna add a CPU anyways, why not go straight for the 68060? The 68040 is crap and it overheats like crazy. Adding an LC060 can be done without even having to patch the rom.

Well they are "pin compatible" as seen in all 040 to 060 board upgrades, but 060 is 3.3V. I think most other oldskool Amiga stuff is normally 5V so some additional voltage regulators would be needed, increasing board complexity and cost.. Also.. if the creator wants FPU, then full 040s are quite plentiful and affordable and give a fairly complete feature set. 060LC were never used in any official Amiga hardware AFAIK.
If it wasnt for the FPU, id frankly go for a 28MHz 020. That + FastMem would magically transform the CD32 into a sufficiently decent machine for a wide range of games and hardly break compatibility.

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[plasmab]

I just planned to prototype with 040s then switch to 060s when everything was working but if I do an a500 040 I may go to cd32 060 immediately


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[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by plasmab

I just planned to prototype with 040s then switch to 060s when everything was working but if I do an a500 040 I may go to cd32 060 immediately


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Is your board internal or external?

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[thgill]

An 060 in a CD32?

As crazy as that sounds, I would totally be down for that.

I would like to see a switch that allows you to disable the CPU and fastram for compatibility.

[plasmab]

Originally Posted by thgill

An 060 in a CD32?

As crazy as that sounds, I would totally be down for that.

I would like to see a switch that allows you to disable the CPU and fastram for compatibility.

That should be simple enough. Physical form factor needs some discussion.

Basically the 040 is a cheaper way for me to experiment and learn before moving up to the 060.

Of course the Vampire boards give you more but they arent open source so may disappear.

[kolla]

What I would like is something akin to ACA500, a board to plug into the CD32 with a connector for A1200 RAM/CPU board.

[spudje]

Yeah, I really don't understand why nobody has ever built something like that over all these years, especially since the CD32 and A1200 are so similar. We do need that IDE/CF and RGB connector too

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by spudje

Yeah, I really don't understand why nobody has ever built something like that over all these years, especially since the CD32 and A1200 are so similar. We do need that IDE/CF and RGB connector too

If you dig deep in the forums, you'll find that Jens has already thought about such an adapter and said he could build it, but it's not a priority atm as he has lots of other stuff he wants to do first.

[plasmab]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

If you dig deep in the forums, you'll find that Jens has already thought about such an adapter and said he could build it, but it's not a priority atm as he has lots of other stuff he wants to do first.

That would be a cool thing. Most of the A1200 cards dont have disk interfaces though.

[Amiga1992]

You would still have no IDE, unless the adapter had IDE (like the ACA500).

Personally, I wouldn't like some big boards sticking out of my games console, and would much prefer an internal solution possible with something like what kipper has made.