a problem on scsi-chain

Bamiga2002 · 15 November 2004, 10:54

I have 3 devices on my BPPC scsi chain:

1. Hard disk
2. CD-rom
3. CD-writer (Yamaha 4416s)

I've terminated the Yamaha with a jumper as it should be. The problem is that sometimes after a boot the Yamaha disappears from the scsi-chain, it doesn't show up anywhere. It still has power lights but if i insert a CD in it, nothing happens (no icon shows up in WB). Sometimes even the power lights go off and maybe come back after a boot but never to be recognised in WB or with any program available (for example Q-Device). Only thing that restores it's functionality again is to power off and power back on. I think it's the reboot that makes this happen somehow.

So any help dudes?

thomas · 15 November 2004, 12:37

Don't know if this helps but I'd suggest to get a seperate active terminator and plug it into the cable behind the writer. AFAIK the Blizzard needs active termination but the internal termination of SCSI2 devices usually is only passive.

You should also look into the firmware menu of the BPPC if the SCSI settings are correct. Hold down Esc after reset to enter the menu.

Bamiga2002 · 15 November 2004, 13:01

Which settings should i look in the BPPC bootmenu? I think i have everything quite OK in there. I added 1 second scsi reset delay in the general settings, gotta see if that helps.

X-ray · 15 November 2004, 14:10

The fact that the power light sometime doesn't come back on is a bit fishy. Maybe this is more a power issue than a SCSI issue? Does the same thing happen if you pull the SCSI ribbon out, but leave the power connector in?

lloyd · 17 November 2004, 00:14

Could it possibly be that you are running all these drives off of the same PSU? It may be that there is insufficient current available to run all the drives properly. If you're using a "proper" PC type swith mode supply, then this probably isn't an issue, but anything less could be causing your problem. Had a similar problem on an old (wait for it) ZX Spectrum +3

Lloyd

Bamiga2002 · 17 November 2004, 10:06

Well it has worked fine now, but i think it's just a question of time. I have a 230W PC PSU converted to Amiga. I think it should be enough for currency. And yes the drives are connected to the same PSU (where else?

). It could be the termination thing as Thomas mentioned.

lloyd · 17 November 2004, 10:42

I used to run my drives off a seperate PSU - but 230 Watts is more than enough to run three drives and an Amiga. In fact, you should be able to run 6 drives and two A1200's!! Sorry I couldn't help dude.

Bamiga2002 · 17 November 2004, 13:13

Maybe i oughta connect a floppy power cable from the PSU to the motherboard floppy power connector (i have only 1 floppy power cable and it's attached to the floppy drive)...does a floppy power cable divider exist maybe?

lloyd · 17 November 2004, 14:23

Why dude?

If I've understood you correctly, you're going to put power INTO a socket on the motherboard designed to SUPPLY power to the floppy drive....

Is it for extra power for the motherboard? If so, I wouldn't recommend it, you may get feedback loops since the power for the motherboard is already connected to the same PSU. Unlikely, but possible.... Also, the power OUT from the socket on the motherboard is likely to be "filtered" to prevent interference etc.

It's possible you have a problem with the drive's power connector - try giving it a wiggle to see if anything happens - it just may need a clean.

As a point of interest, if your drive has a power on light and it's flickering, then it's a power problem - if it's the read/write indicator light (none of my CD drives have a power indicator light), then it's either getting confusing signals from the SCSI chain or is faulty

Lloyd

lloyd · 17 November 2004, 14:26

Thinking about it a little more, my hard drive sometimes doesn't register when I cold boot my 1200. It COULD be that the drive hasn't had enough time to spin-up - hence doesn't get recognised. How about if you cold boot, then re-boot. Do you get the problem then?

Lloyd.

thomas · 17 November 2004, 15:13

@Bamiga2002: if you have a power problem with the CD writer you should look after the writer, not after the motherboard. The SCSI devices should be connected directly to the PSU, they should *not* get their power through the motherboard or through the Blizzard. The motherboard is designed just strong enough to supply the floppy drive and hardly strong enough for one HDD on the internal IDE bus. By hardly strong enough I mean that the lines are so thin that they might burn when pulling more power through them. There is nothing you can do about it but connecting additional devices directly to the PSU, bypassing the motherboard. Putting more power into the motherboard is not necessary. If the motherboard had a too weak power supply, you would experience crashes and sudden restarts.

Bamiga2002 · 18 November 2004, 06:59

They are connected to the PSU directly. When i added 1 second more to scsi reset delay in PPC bootmenu the problem seems to be cured. Was it so obvious...

lloyd · 18 November 2004, 19:30

Nice one dude, glad you sorted now.

DDNI · 28 October 2009, 13:05

Is there anywhere that details all of the options in the BPPC boot menu (particularly the SCSI options)?

thomas · 28 October 2009, 16:03

http://powerup.amigaworld.de/index.php?lang=en&page=13

Download the flash update and see the FlashBIOS.doc file. That's the only documentation available.

DDNI · 28 October 2009, 16:09

thanks Thomas that was exactly what I was looking for.

15 November 2004, 10:54	#1
Bamiga2002 BlizzardPPC'less Join Date: May 2004 Location: Finland Age: 46 Posts: 3,210	a problem on scsi-chain I have 3 devices on my BPPC scsi chain: 1. Hard disk 2. CD-rom 3. CD-writer (Yamaha 4416s) I've terminated the Yamaha with a jumper as it should be. The problem is that sometimes after a boot the Yamaha disappears from the scsi-chain, it doesn't show up anywhere. It still has power lights but if i insert a CD in it, nothing happens (no icon shows up in WB). Sometimes even the power lights go off and maybe come back after a boot but never to be recognised in WB or with any program available (for example Q-Device). Only thing that restores it's functionality again is to power off and power back on. I think it's the reboot that makes this happen somehow. So any help dudes?

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15 November 2004, 12:37	#2
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 7,026	Don't know if this helps but I'd suggest to get a seperate active terminator and plug it into the cable behind the writer. AFAIK the Blizzard needs active termination but the internal termination of SCSI2 devices usually is only passive. You should also look into the firmware menu of the BPPC if the SCSI settings are correct. Hold down Esc after reset to enter the menu.

15 November 2004, 13:01	#3
Bamiga2002 BlizzardPPC'less Join Date: May 2004 Location: Finland Age: 46 Posts: 3,210	Which settings should i look in the BPPC bootmenu? I think i have everything quite OK in there. I added 1 second scsi reset delay in the general settings, gotta see if that helps.

15 November 2004, 14:10	#4
X-ray Angry Kid Fan Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: London Posts: 230	The fact that the power light sometime doesn't come back on is a bit fishy. Maybe this is more a power issue than a SCSI issue? Does the same thing happen if you pull the SCSI ribbon out, but leave the power connector in?

17 November 2004, 00:14	#5
lloyd Mehh :D Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Bristol, SW UK Age: 61 Posts: 242	Could it possibly be that you are running all these drives off of the same PSU? It may be that there is insufficient current available to run all the drives properly. If you're using a "proper" PC type swith mode supply, then this probably isn't an issue, but anything less could be causing your problem. Had a similar problem on an old (wait for it) ZX Spectrum +3 Lloyd

17 November 2004, 10:06	#6
Bamiga2002 BlizzardPPC'less Join Date: May 2004 Location: Finland Age: 46 Posts: 3,210	Well it has worked fine now, but i think it's just a question of time. I have a 230W PC PSU converted to Amiga. I think it should be enough for currency. And yes the drives are connected to the same PSU (where else? ). It could be the termination thing as Thomas mentioned.

17 November 2004, 10:42	#7
lloyd Mehh :D Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Bristol, SW UK Age: 61 Posts: 242	I used to run my drives off a seperate PSU - but 230 Watts is more than enough to run three drives and an Amiga. In fact, you should be able to run 6 drives and two A1200's!! Sorry I couldn't help dude.

17 November 2004, 13:13	#8
Bamiga2002 BlizzardPPC'less Join Date: May 2004 Location: Finland Age: 46 Posts: 3,210	Maybe i oughta connect a floppy power cable from the PSU to the motherboard floppy power connector (i have only 1 floppy power cable and it's attached to the floppy drive)...does a floppy power cable divider exist maybe?

17 November 2004, 14:23	#9
lloyd Mehh :D Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Bristol, SW UK Age: 61 Posts: 242	Why dude? If I've understood you correctly, you're going to put power INTO a socket on the motherboard designed to SUPPLY power to the floppy drive.... Is it for extra power for the motherboard? If so, I wouldn't recommend it, you may get feedback loops since the power for the motherboard is already connected to the same PSU. Unlikely, but possible.... Also, the power OUT from the socket on the motherboard is likely to be "filtered" to prevent interference etc. It's possible you have a problem with the drive's power connector - try giving it a wiggle to see if anything happens - it just may need a clean. As a point of interest, if your drive has a power on light and it's flickering, then it's a power problem - if it's the read/write indicator light (none of my CD drives have a power indicator light), then it's either getting confusing signals from the SCSI chain or is faulty Lloyd

17 November 2004, 14:26	#10
lloyd Mehh :D Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Bristol, SW UK Age: 61 Posts: 242	Thinking about it a little more, my hard drive sometimes doesn't register when I cold boot my 1200. It COULD be that the drive hasn't had enough time to spin-up - hence doesn't get recognised. How about if you cold boot, then re-boot. Do you get the problem then? Lloyd.

17 November 2004, 15:13	#11
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 7,026	@Bamiga2002: if you have a power problem with the CD writer you should look after the writer, not after the motherboard. The SCSI devices should be connected directly to the PSU, they should not get their power through the motherboard or through the Blizzard. The motherboard is designed just strong enough to supply the floppy drive and hardly strong enough for one HDD on the internal IDE bus. By hardly strong enough I mean that the lines are so thin that they might burn when pulling more power through them. There is nothing you can do about it but connecting additional devices directly to the PSU, bypassing the motherboard. Putting more power into the motherboard is not necessary. If the motherboard had a too weak power supply, you would experience crashes and sudden restarts.

18 November 2004, 06:59	#12
Bamiga2002 BlizzardPPC'less Join Date: May 2004 Location: Finland Age: 46 Posts: 3,210	They are connected to the PSU directly. When i added 1 second more to scsi reset delay in PPC bootmenu the problem seems to be cured. Was it so obvious...

18 November 2004, 19:30	#13
lloyd Mehh :D Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Bristol, SW UK Age: 61 Posts: 242	Nice one dude, glad you sorted now.

28 October 2009, 13:05	#14
DDNI Targ Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 5,433	Is there anywhere that details all of the options in the BPPC boot menu (particularly the SCSI options)?

28 October 2009, 16:03	#15
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 7,026	http://powerup.amigaworld.de/index.php?lang=en&page=13 Download the flash update and see the FlashBIOS.doc file. That's the only documentation available.

28 October 2009, 16:09	#16
DDNI Targ Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 5,433	thanks Thomas that was exactly what I was looking for.

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