![]() |
![]() |
#1 |
Zone Friend
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gothenburg/Sweden
Age: 48
Posts: 347
|
How fast can the Amiga read a floppy?
I'm just a bit curious, how fast could the Amiga read a floppy, assuming we bypass the filesystem? As far as I remember, X-copy read like 1 track / second (or something similar), but is it possible to go faster (with minimum error-detection/correction)?
I've no experience writing custom trackloaders but I'm just curious.. ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 | |
Defendit numerus
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Crossing the Rubicon
Age: 54
Posts: 4,534
|
Quote:
A bitcell in a DD floppy is 2us and there are 5 disk rotations/sec (300 rpm). So theoretically you can read 100000 cells/rotation (actually Amiga can do a little better than this). In a standard MFM encoding 2 cells are required for 1 bit of data, so 100000/2/8=6250 raw bytes per track. For a raw speed of 6250*5=31250kB/s -> 30.5Kib/s Off course there are sector headers, checksums, gaps, syncs and times lost for settle and head movement, so values are a little "worse". I would say that with commitment you can also reach a real 25KiB/s speed (with 11*512bytes sectors/track). So with a good loader and a complete 160-track disk reading (880 KiB), this is something like a time of ~35 secs ![]() (much much more that a 1 track/second) EDIT: just checked X-Copy and got 37secs for a full disk read so I was a bit optimistic ![]() I should try a version of my loader designed only for maximum speed, maybe a day.. Last edited by ross; 02 April 2019 at 22:52. Reason: spelling... |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: finland
Posts: 1,850
|
I remember D-Copy (PD copier) was clearly faster than OS. And my A500 with Supraturbo 28 was clearly faster than plain A500.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#4 | |
Defendit numerus
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Crossing the Rubicon
Age: 54
Posts: 4,534
|
Quote:
Anyway the trackdisk.device from KS 2.0+ is really good (considering that is working for a multitasking environment). |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Eksjö / Sweden
Posts: 5,756
|
Ross has given the physical limits (+1), which can maximize rawbits per track. Apart from this, there are some considerations.
If you use DMA, the ideal limit is 46950 bytes/s, but you can poll DSKBYTR with the CPU to go higher. (If you do this, disregard the rest (on 68000 only) as you will waste 100% CPU on plain loading.) On top of this, you can use better encoding than MFM and GCR to almost reach 1.5:1 encoding instead of 2:1. (You can never reach 1.5:1.) And the CPU can easily decode such a low datarate, so on top of this you can add a compression algorithm. On 68000, it must be very simple to make a gain, though. Because if you fill up the CPU cycles, like in Soviet Russia, the hardware will be waiting for you ![]() On accelerated Amigas, you can do all of the above. If accelerated enough, it will be close to the physical specs of the medium+highest compression ratio. (Edit: A very good test case for stock A1200, at least I think there have been no attempts in this direction.) Last edited by Photon; 20 April 2019 at 00:40. |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Dream Merchant
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dreamlands
Posts: 530
|
Slightly OT (and silly idea): Would it be possible to read from both internal and external drive at the same time to halve loading times? Sort of "striping"? Just curious...
|
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Defendit numerus
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Crossing the Rubicon
Age: 54
Posts: 4,534
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#8 |
Natteravn
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Herford / Germany
Posts: 2,575
|
But what happens when you have multiple drives selected for reading? Will the DMA favour data from one drive, or will it be from a random drive every word? Or is the data complete garbarge? Anybody tried that?
|
![]() |
![]() |
#9 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Hastings, New Zealand
Posts: 2,857
|
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Natteravn
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Herford / Germany
Posts: 2,575
|
Makes sense. Thanks.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 428
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#12 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 136
|
Quote:
I gave it a quick try in WinUAE and you can see it writing to all 3 simultaneously. ![]() Saying that it didn't actually write to any of the target disks under WinUAE, maybe a bug in WinUAE? (Either than or I did something wrong) |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#13 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 428
|
Interesting, thanks. Must have sped up distributing disk mags back in the day a bit!
I always liked DCopy. Being able to kill the OS on a 1 meg A500+ was handy to avoid disk swapping! |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 3,464
|
This thread makes me wonder, do older drives degrade in terms of speed? Or would they simply fail to work if they can't rotate the disk at the correct speed?
|
![]() |
![]() |
#15 | |
Defendit numerus
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Crossing the Rubicon
Age: 54
Posts: 4,534
|
Quote:
Unless you have very big changes, you would simply have an increase in intermittent read errors. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#16 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 3,464
|
That's interesting. Does that mean you shouldn't count on a given speed for the disk then? Or are any such changes going to be fairly minor (before the number of errors starts getting too high obviously).
Sorry, I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to the actual physical hardware. The software interface I usually get, but don't ask me how the disk drive actually reads it's bits ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#17 | |
Defendit numerus
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Crossing the Rubicon
Age: 54
Posts: 4,534
|
Quote:
![]() If your drive write too many cells (so RPM<<300) and another drive on read rotate too fast (>>300RPM), or viceversa, it is likely that synchronization may be lost. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#18 | |
ex. demoscener "Bigmama"
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Fyn / Denmark
Posts: 1,663
|
Quote:
Disk drives normally have a closed-loop system for the rotational speed, so it shouldn't degrade as such, but if there's so much wear and gunk in the drive that it doesn't have the power to spin the disk properly, then... ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#19 | |
Defendit numerus
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Crossing the Rubicon
Age: 54
Posts: 4,534
|
Quote:
But surely there are indeed other causes that give you defective reads ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#20 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Sandusky
Posts: 949
|
I remember spending a good amount of time on all my Amigas tuning the track wait times for every drive I had so the seek times were the absolute minimum that was still reliable on that particular drive, then throwing the patched config into the startup sequence so my floppies were always the fastest. xD
|
![]() |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Can Amiga read/write to Atari ST floppy disks? | Blitter | Retrogaming General Discussion | 23 | 28 February 2020 03:49 |
Add ability to select PC floppy drive so you can read ADF files from PC Floppy | Unicron | request.UAE Wishlist | 6 | 07 February 2017 16:12 |
Easynet Floppy read errors | berkley | support.Apps | 1 | 14 October 2016 03:10 |
read amiga floppy disk on a pc | reddwarf4ever | support.FS-UAE | 2 | 12 January 2016 13:45 |
Amiga 1200 Floppy read errors. | atarisucks | support.Hardware | 1 | 18 May 2007 22:27 |
|
|