AmigaOS 3.2 and beyond

[boemann]

Originally Posted by Romanujan

Since the developers want to get the feedback - here is mine


Distribution:

1. Why there is no digital download? I paid for my copy a week ago, and the parcel still hasn't been dispatched (so this feedback is based on the change log and videos on YouTube only). It's XXI century now, we typically purchase software digitally, and it is available to us few minutes after the payment, some of us do not even have the CD drive any more - I know this is a retro OS, but full distribution limited to physical CD is not a retro experience I'm missing. And please consider the environment - I'm serious.

This feedback is not for us developers however. We have no influence over how things are sold. But I do understand that digital downloads will follow. The initial cdrom option through resellers is to say thanks and support the resellers. I find that nice actually.

Originally Posted by Romanujan

Bigger features - I understand these might would require a lot of work, but these are the ones I'm missing:

2. Full bitmap theming of window gadgets, window title bar, screen menu - to make VisualPrefs and MagicMenu obsolete. If I understand correctly, at least some of the features are currently being worked on.
3. TrueType font support, to get rid of the 20 years old patch (TTFLib).
4. As far as I can see from the change log, there is some support for per-user file permissions, at least in some network-related code. Would it be possible to provide them in a way compatible with multiuser.library? It was a standard long time ago, and at least Directory Opus 4 can use this API.
5. Would it be possible to add a single document mode to TextEdit? I'm not a fan of the MDI.
.

2 well visualprefs is done by one of our devs so is not really a hack but nicely coordinated. But yes we do want to make things more configurable, but bear in mind that we are practically out of rom space.
3 truetype requires a lot of performance so it will never be a replacement, but the thought of truetype has crossed my mind.
4 AmigaDOS have had support for more than one set of access properties since the beginning at least 2.x. So if multiuser.library follows that standard it should work.
5 TextEdit is pretty much locked into being multidocument. Maybe something can be done but it is not high on my agenda.

Originally Posted by Romanujan

Smaller features:

6. Would it be possible to add one more mode for TAB completion - display a file requester, like the KingCON does? IMHO KingCON has the best file name completion, ever!
7. MCP has a nice feature - tool aliasing, would it be possible to implement it? It is very useful for making old icons working properly, for example to redirect AmigaGuide -> MultiView, C:Installer -> SYS:Utilities/Installer, Ed -> TextEdit, etc.
8. Another nice MCP feature I like is a pointer blanker - mouse pointer disappears after some period of inactivity, and reappears as soon as the user moves a mouse.
9. Since the Workbench title is now customizable - would it be possible to add a clock on the workbench bar, located next to the screen cycle gadget (not as a part of the Workbench title)?
10. Would it be possible to move the system directories (ENV:, T:, CLIPS:, etc.) to a separate RAM disk, independed from the regular one? I find it irritating that they clutter my temporary space, I always create a second RAM disk for such purpose using AmberRAM.
11. Would it be possible/feasible to integrate UnixDirs3 patch? I find it very convenient.
12. There is a mess in a font selection dialog - some names start with upper case, some with lower case. Would it be possible to clean this up, and start all the font names from upper case, including Topaz? If I understand correctly, font matching is done in a case-insensitive way nevertheless.


[edit] Don't get me wrong, I do not demand the team will implement these - this is just a feedback, a dream-list I would say.

6 the trouble with that is that the console is not aware that it is talking to a window (it could be the serial port and a terminal) so it can't just pop up a requester. kingcon makes it's completely different implementation and imho does it wrong technically. However console is an area i'm looking into for 3.2.1 - what if anything comes of that remains to be seen
7 That is indeed a feature we have talked about and might come one day
8 There is already a commondiy that does that called MouseBlanker
9 We have thought of that and the title bar can show an env variable and i think there is a tool somewhere in the os that updates an env with the current time -> magicially you have time in the screen title
10 I think that is a rather speicalized wish, and you seem to have already found a workaround
11 don't even know what it is
12 good point

And yes as you can see from the extensive answer I did read your wishes in the constructive manner you wrote them

[hUMUNGUs]

Originally Posted by Romanujan

Since the developers want to get the feedback - here is mine


Distribution:

1. Why there is no digital download? I paid for my copy a week ago, and the parcel still hasn't been dispatched (so this feedback is based on the change log and videos on YouTube only). It's XXI century now, we typically purchase software digitally, and it is available to us few minutes after the payment, some of us do not even have the CD drive any more - I know this is a retro OS, but full distribution limited to physical CD is not a retro experience I'm missing. And please consider the environment - I'm serious.


Bigger features - I understand these might would require a lot of work, but these are the ones I'm missing:

2. Full bitmap theming of window gadgets, window title bar, screen menu - to make VisualPrefs and MagicMenu obsolete. If I understand correctly, at least some of the features are currently being worked on.
3. TrueType font support, to get rid of the 20 years old patch (TTFLib).
4. As far as I can see from the change log, there is some support for per-user file permissions, at least in some network-related code. Would it be possible to provide them in a way compatible with multiuser.library? It was a standard long time ago, and at least Directory Opus 4 can use this API.
5. Would it be possible to add a single document mode to TextEdit? I'm not a fan of the MDI.


Smaller features:

6. Would it be possible to add one more mode for TAB completion - display a file requester, like the KingCON does? IMHO KingCON has the best file name completion, ever!
7. MCP has a nice feature - tool aliasing, would it be possible to implement it? It is very useful for making old icons working properly, for example to redirect AmigaGuide -> MultiView, C:Installer -> SYS:Utilities/Installer, Ed -> TextEdit, etc.
8. Another nice MCP feature I like is a pointer blanker - mouse pointer disappears after some period of inactivity, and reappears as soon as the user moves a mouse.
9. Since the Workbench title is now customizable - would it be possible to add a clock on the workbench bar, located next to the screen cycle gadget (not as a part of the Workbench title)?
10. Would it be possible to move the system directories (ENV:, T:, CLIPS:, etc.) to a separate RAM disk, independed from the regular one? I find it irritating that they clutter my temporary space, I always create a second RAM disk for such purpose using AmberRAM.
11. Would it be possible/feasible to integrate UnixDirs3 patch? I find it very convenient.
12. There is a mess in a font selection dialog - some names start with upper case, some with lower case. Would it be possible to clean this up, and start all the font names from upper case, including Topaz? If I understand correctly, font matching is done in a case-insensitive way nevertheless.


[edit] Don't get me wrong, I do not demand the team will implement these - this is just a feedback, a dream-list I would say.

theming:
Seeing as the VP author is on the team, things could be written without hacks and included in the OS. Thumbs up
AmigaOS 3.2 is a fantastic update. bought mine from Alinea Germay last saturday, but no word from them yet. Thanks to the whole team !!

[Predseda]

I got an email from Alinea that because of a big demand some delay is expected.

[Romanujan]

@boemann Thanks for the answers! Some more clarifications from my side:

9. I have tried the environment variable approach long time ago (with MCP, if I'm not mistaken), but it didn't work too well. For example, when the amount of free ram changed, the clock was moving left/right to accommodate titlebar text changed. Unless there is some kind of 'tabulation' mechanism available.

11. http://aminet.net/package/util/boot/UnixDirs3 - it allows some more Unix syntax in directory handling, for example you can type cd.. to go to the parent directory.

[E-Penguin]

My brief experience with 3.2 has been very positive, well done to all.

The console tab completion is very nice. It would be great to have a scroll bar on the console though, for when things scroll out of view. Is that possible?

[boemann]

Originally Posted by E-Penguin

My brief experience with 3.2 has been very positive, well done to all.

The console tab completion is very nice. It would be great to have a scroll bar on the console though, for when things scroll out of view. Is that possible?

I like the tab completion very much myself. Scrollback is not a 3.2 feature, but it will make for a nice addition in 3.2.1 or later, so Jason and I are working on it as we speak. There is absolutely no promises and it it is far from a small task so we will see if it happens at all. But at least we are giving it a try.

[bubbob42]

Originally Posted by Syntrax

What would be nice memory optimisation. OS 3.3 (if ever), will out of the box need to support a stock Amiga, so you will have to code for low-spec machines (and assume fast-ram is not on board) but: most amiga's in use these days have MB's of fast. So give OS3.3 some configurable switch to use fast ram for almost everything.

The OS is automatically using FastRam, if available, for almost everything since OS3.1.4. Even previous versions have been working like that this since forever.

Edit: James was faster.

[wiser3]

A couple of larger wishes for v3.3 or beyond.
1. Add support for utf-8 character encoding. This would fix issues of missing characters and bring the system into modern telecommunications.

2. Fix the date/time related issues. I admit i seem to be the only person that cares about this but I want my great grandchildren to enjoy my Amiga 1200. I think you would have to create a 64 bit quantity to represent the elapsed seconds (or micro-seconds) and have all parts of the OS get its date/time from that. Legacy apps would still use the old API and get 32 bit values but new apps could be made to work with the 64 bit value.
http://obligement.free.fr/articles_t..._an2000_en.php

[NinjaCyborg]

Originally Posted by kamelito

I’ve see a video and what is missing is a TCP/IP stack and an unarchiver (archiver) tools built in at least.
In that video we can see that French text are too long in some tools and so they don’t fit the gadget size.

How have you not already bought RoadShow at this point?

Originally Posted by Minuous

The OS does not assume fast RAM is or is not on board, it allocates RAM intelligently according to what is available. Chip memory will not be used where fast RAM is suitable and available.

Regardless of who decides where to allocate. Enough tools have a switch to put data in fast instead of chip even when chip would be suitable.

My system runs in RTG 24 bit color, it stores almost everything in fast. I've got 1900 KB chip available. In order to reach that, I've got a christmas tree of tools. It would be great if the system didn't need tools for that.Somehow 3.1.4 isn't capable of doing that.

But, it's only a suggestion

[bubbob42]

Originally Posted by Syntrax

Regardless of who decides where to allocate. Enough tools have a switch to put data in fast instead of chip even when chip would be suitable.

My system runs in RTG 24 bit color, it stores almost everything in fast. I've got 1900 KB chip available. In order to reach that, I've got a christmas tree of tools. It would be great if the system didn't need tools for that.Somehow 3.1.4 isn't capable of doing that.

Have a look at the 720p screenshot in the Hyperion press release. It‘s stock 3.2 with P96 V3 running on 4000T and ZZ9000, 32bit. No extra tools and settings. 2 MB chip Ram free. Is that what you‘re after to or am I missing something?

[boemann]

Originally Posted by wiser3

A couple of larger wishes for v3.3 or beyond.
1. Add support for utf-8 character encoding. This would fix issues of missing characters and bring the system into modern telecommunications.

2. Fix the date/time related issues. I admit i seem to be the only person that cares about this but I want my great grandchildren to enjoy my Amiga 1200. I think you would have to create a 64 bit quantity to represent the elapsed seconds (or micro-seconds) and have all parts of the OS get its date/time from that. Legacy apps would still use the old API and get 32 bit values but new apps could be made to work with the 64 bit value.
http://obligement.free.fr/articles_t..._an2000_en.php

utf8 is a really huge undertaking that may even be impossible, nonetheless we plan to at least think it over how difficult it would actually be. Retrofitting it to an os that has always been latin 1 is difficult but we do owe it to ourselves to at least think it over

As for the clock we have quite a few years left to figure it out

[bubbob42]

Originally Posted by wiser3

A couple of larger wishes for v3.3 or beyond.
2. Fix the date/time related issues. I admit i seem to be the only person that cares about this but I want my great grandchildren to enjoy my Amiga[/url]

So we may have a few years to spend on more pressing issues until we‘d need to tackle this issue, agreed?

[haightc]

I already purchased a copy from Amiga on the Lake... just a couple quick questions if you don't mind.

1) I have a pal Amiga 600 with a Furia accelerator, last version was very temperamental with that combination. Have such issues been address, I am guessing with new scsi.device in kickstart it will?

2) I also have an NTSC Amiga CD32 with a TF330, is the CD boot-able so I can install straight from CD? What issues might I expect to run into?

[Predseda]

Originally Posted by bubbob42

So we may have a few years to spend on more pressing issues until we‘d need to tackle this issue, agreed?

Time buffer will overflow at 19.1.2059 (on my A1200, that counts it date beginning 1.1.1991 with 3.1 ROMs). The Amiga will then start to count the time in reverse
A500 that starts counting from 1978 will be affected earlier.

[duga]

Originally Posted by haightc

I already purchased a copy from Amiga on the Lake... just a couple quick questions if you don't mind.

1) I have a pal Amiga 600 with a Furia accelerator, last version was very temperamental with that combination. Have such issues been address, I am guessing with new scsi.device in kickstart it will?

"f) If you are using a Fúria accelerator, please contact its vendor or
manufacturer to make sure you are using the latest firmware. Old
firmware seems to be the cause of multiple faults and issues. Also,
this accelerator seems to be extremely picky on what flash storage
media brands it will work with."

Source: http://us4.aminet.net/aminet/docs/he...OS_3.2-FAQ.txt

[gulliver]

Originally Posted by haightc

2) I also have an NTSC Amiga CD32 with a TF330, is the CD boot-able so I can install straight from CD? What issues might I expect to run into?

Please read section 14 of the AmigaOS 3.2 FAQ which is in Aminet.

BTW, duga has already answered your first question.

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by Predseda

It will overflow at 19.1.2059 (on my A1200, that counts it date beginning 1.1.1991 with 3.1 ROMs). The Amiga will then start to count the time in reverse
A500 that starts counting from 1978 will be affected earlier.

I'm pretty sure all Amigas start counting at 1.1.1978. Usually the system time is taken from the boot volume if no RTC is present though - possibly the filesystem creation date (date of formatting)?

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

I'm pretty sure all Amigas start counting at 1.1.1978. Usually the system time is taken from the boot volume if no RTC is present though - possibly the filesystem creation date (date of formatting)?

if the timestamp format was different between different Amiga's that would cause all kinds of software incompatibilities

[Predseda]

My Amiga system date can not be set lower than 1.1.1991 (at least in WB Preferences).