New font on WinUAE GUI is unreadable..not to mention ugly - Page 2

eLowar · 15 May 2007, 00:09

To reduce blurriness with ClearType, you might want to play with this: Microsoft ClearType Tuner PowerToy

Edit: haha, simul-post

Shoonay · 15 May 2007, 00:11

LOL, even the same time

15 May 2007, 00:53

Jeez...Mad-Matt, if I'm in non-native resolution (and I'm, of course) capturing it will not make it blurry. Switch to non-native, capture and paste pic, switch to native and you'll see what I mean. Don't assume I don't know what I'm doing.
BTW sorry for my grammatical errors, English is not my native.
Anyway...I did some research. Hm..maybe it is my regional settings or the fact that I'm forced to run on SP1 (long story...includes one special printer drivers and network). I'll try from my computer at work with SP2 tomorrow, now I'm going to sleep.
BUT the fact is - this new WinUAE font is looking blurry on my PC while every other program is fine incl.old WinUAE versions. So something is not 100% compatible...

BTW, yes yes, with ClearType this font is sharper. Here's the picture with CT on.

Click image for larger version

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But guess some people can't understand that ClearType is not something that everybody likes and I'm not going to leave it on just because of this WinUAE issue...

Marcuz · 15 May 2007, 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfoVS

BUT the fact is - this new WinUAE font is looking blurry on my PC while every other program is fine incl.old WinUAE versions. So something is not 100% compatible...

well that's understandable because this release is the first that utilizes the alternative font.

anyway, i am a little lost: you say that the font is ugly or badly rendered in Winuae: if i am not wrong the font is rendered the same way outside winuae, so the problem is that it simply doesn't read well and that it's strange, it being a standard font for Windows.
So it's one of these 3 possibility?

1) the resolution you use on the LCD screen plus the fact that you decide not to finetune Cleartype (Cleartype being born exactly to fix readability of fonts on LCD) plus some problem of your installation of Windows gives the results in object.
2) the font is broken (it may happen, for instance if it gets overwritten by a almost alike font, with the same name but customized)
3) the font's design doesnt' fit in general design of the OS version you use, resulting so strange.

in case 1 and 2 the problem is not exactly of Winuae, and least of having a consistent report of people using LCD and having the same results, i would suggest you to get on with cleartype, instead of changing away winuae, but that's not my call anyway.
the 3rd case is the only one that may support the rethinking of this feature imho.
don't get me bad, it's just my 2 cents

UncleSpam · 15 May 2007, 02:09

Well, I don't see any problems, with all the screenshots and with my WinUAE interface. I use ClearType all the time, since I use a laptop and an external LCD display.

Now, if all you do is configure WinUAE and not actually run the emulation, then I can see where the font would be a problem

b.

NfernalNfluence · 15 May 2007, 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfoVS

It all fine with my fonts. It's a matter of taste. To me this "improvement" is step backward

yeah toni should move forward with wingdings font!

Ironclaw · 15 May 2007, 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfoVS

Well, in my opinion, that is slightly better than your first picture, but still not acceptable.. it's now fat and blurry... eeeeeew. It's still not nice, crisp and clear.

Your new pic in closeup: (love showing clarity)

Calgor · 15 May 2007, 07:57

LOL, shouldn't we be complaining about emulation issues??

Anyway, my preference is for the old font (i don't use cleartype nor know how to set it - even with cleartype on as displayed by infoVS closeup, it's just not as clear - and it doesn't look like the classic Amiga bitmap fonts which have none of this multi-colour smoothing!!!!).

I probably notice the difference more due to my sharper LCD screen compared with a CRT which will gloss over those colour differences and merge them better.

But whatever Toni likes is good enough for me.

jasonver2.0 · 15 May 2007, 07:59

New glasses perhaps?

@Ironclaw - All fonts looks 'blurry' if you zoom in enough.

Toni Wilen · 15 May 2007, 08:35

Do you have Vista font installed on your XP machines?

WinUAE supports two "new" fonts, Tahoma (tahoma.ttf in windows\fonts) , which was first introduced in Windows 2000 and Segoe UI (segoeui.ttf) which was introduced in Vista.

Tahoma is default font in Windows 2000+ so it should look same as explorer's default font.

Ironclaw · 15 May 2007, 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonver2.0

New glasses perhaps?

@Ironclaw - All fonts looks 'blurry' if you zoom in enough.

No they don't.... not mine.. it's all crisp here, no blurriness....

You see the left picture (A), that is how the fonts look on my PC in all programs... that is how it should look like.. does that look blurry to you??? Guess you view your pictures and stuff in a program that adds blurriness to the zoom.... DON'T as it doesn't give the correct look.... use ACDsee or paint like me... or even paintshop pro.

15 May 2007, 11:00

Ahhh...now we're talking...
@Toni...
The problem is with segoeui.ttf font. It is used by some applications, not only Vista. So it is installed and needed on my XP. But since when additional (not overwritten) fonts are supposed to cause different look in programs??

Maybe WinUAE needs to check if OS is XP and if it is disable usage of segoeui.ttf. I don't know how this font looks in Vista (and I'm not going that road anytime soon btw...) but in XP with ClearType OFF it is blurry.
So, I had free time to take caps with and without segoeui.ttf fonts, with and without CT and how I think it should look by capturing screen with old 1.4.1 version. JMHOOC. @Ironclaw, thank you for all your posts and help...but I don't think zooming pictures is necessary, people can do that in simple picture viewer. Also, I captured small portion of Window Explorer so you could see ClearType effect on other windows...

XP, segoeui.ttf installed, ClearType Off (standard font smoothing) - extremely ugly

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segoeui.ttf installed, CT On - better, but ClearType is affecting other programs and not everybody likes that...

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segoeui.ttf NOT installed, ClearType Off - This is an OK look. But I have to remove segoeui.ttf font from fonts folder and this is not acceptable.

Click image for larger version

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1.4.1 WinUAE version, segoeui.ttf doesn't matter, ClearType Off - best look, IMHO. Don't know what was wrong with that look that had to be changed.

Click image for larger version

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Regards

Shoonay · 15 May 2007, 11:16

Here InfoVS, have a joint...

I'm sure you'll appreciate the colorful ClearType fonts now!

Toni Wilen · 15 May 2007, 11:32

Ok. I guess the easiest solution is to only allow Segoe UI if running in Vista and default to Tahoma if Windows2000+ and "original" if 98/ME.

I don't really want to add "useless" GUI options if possible. (=install Vista if you really want Segoe UI font in next WinUAE version

)

15 May 2007, 12:04

I guess this is an OK solution.

Thanks Toni, regards

_Steve_ · 15 May 2007, 23:42

I have this font installed at the moment as well, but it wasn't something I consciously added. My current machine has only recently had XP installed from scratch (SP2 included on the install MS-CD). Very few applications have been installed, so unless the font was included on the XP SP2 cd, I can only conclude one of these added it.

As such, the new look UI does look a bit odd over the traditionally used Tahoma font from the previous versions, and as shown above, it is blurry by default (using a 17" CRT here).

adolescent · 15 May 2007, 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Steve_

I have this font installed at the moment as well, but it wasn't something I consciously added. My current machine has only recently had XP installed from scratch (SP2 included on the install MS-CD). Very few applications have been installed, so unless the font was included on the XP SP2 cd, I can only conclude one of these added it.

I'm fairly sure it comes with IE7 (at least that's where I saw it first...).

killergorilla · 16 May 2007, 00:13

The font looks fine here.

I have Windows XP, I've not installed IE7.

The font looks alright but it's f*cked my paths royally.

Ultron · 16 May 2007, 03:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironclaw

No they don't.... not mine.. it's all crisp here, no blurriness....

You see the left picture (A), that is how the fonts look on my PC in all programs... that is how it should look like.. does that look blurry to you??? Guess you view your pictures and stuff in a program that adds blurriness to the zoom.... DON'T as it doesn't give the correct look.... use ACDsee or paint like me... or even paintshop pro.

But a) looks like a non-antialiased totally pixelated slut. If i wanted that i'd be running Workbench. It's 2007, antialias and cleartype your fonts, gramps!

Ironclaw · 16 May 2007, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultron

But a) looks like a non-antialiased totally pixelated slut. If i wanted that i'd be running Workbench. It's 2007, antialias and cleartype your fonts, gramps!

Never !

... why wouldn't anyone want clear text?... why blurry?.... and I havn't made the font that way, it came with windows and I havn't done anything to change any fonts.... if it would be blurry, I would have changed it...

And text can't be any clearer than mine, which is what everyone want, except you.... why want blurry, unclear text?...

15 May 2007, 00:53	#23
InfoVS Posts: n/a	Jeez...Mad-Matt, if I'm in non-native resolution (and I'm, of course) capturing it will not make it blurry. Switch to non-native, capture and paste pic, switch to native and you'll see what I mean. Don't assume I don't know what I'm doing. BTW sorry for my grammatical errors, English is not my native. Anyway...I did some research. Hm..maybe it is my regional settings or the fact that I'm forced to run on SP1 (long story...includes one special printer drivers and network). I'll try from my computer at work with SP2 tomorrow, now I'm going to sleep. BUT the fact is - this new WinUAE font is looking blurry on my PC while every other program is fine incl.old WinUAE versions. So something is not 100% compatible... BTW, yes yes, with ClearType this font is sharper. Here's the picture with CT on. But guess some people can't understand that ClearType is not something that everybody likes and I'm not going to leave it on just because of this WinUAE issue... Last edited by InfoVS; 15 May 2007 at 01:02.

15 May 2007, 11:00	#32
InfoVS Posts: n/a	Ahhh...now we're talking... @Toni... The problem is with segoeui.ttf font. It is used by some applications, not only Vista. So it is installed and needed on my XP. But since when additional (not overwritten) fonts are supposed to cause different look in programs?? Maybe WinUAE needs to check if OS is XP and if it is disable usage of segoeui.ttf. I don't know how this font looks in Vista (and I'm not going that road anytime soon btw...) but in XP with ClearType OFF it is blurry. So, I had free time to take caps with and without segoeui.ttf fonts, with and without CT and how I think it should look by capturing screen with old 1.4.1 version. JMHOOC. @Ironclaw, thank you for all your posts and help...but I don't think zooming pictures is necessary, people can do that in simple picture viewer. Also, I captured small portion of Window Explorer so you could see ClearType effect on other windows... XP, segoeui.ttf installed, ClearType Off (standard font smoothing) - extremely ugly segoeui.ttf installed, CT On - better, but ClearType is affecting other programs and not everybody likes that... segoeui.ttf NOT installed, ClearType Off - This is an OK look. But I have to remove segoeui.ttf font from fonts folder and this is not acceptable. 1.4.1 WinUAE version, segoeui.ttf doesn't matter, ClearType Off - best look, IMHO. Don't know what was wrong with that look that had to be changed. Regards Last edited by InfoVS; 15 May 2007 at 11:31.

16 May 2007, 00:13	#38
killergorilla Lesser Talent Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 7,957	The font looks fine here. I have Windows XP, I've not installed IE7. The font looks alright but it's fcked my paths royally. Last edited by killergorilla; 16 May 2007 at 10:12.*

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15 May 2007, 00:09	#21
eLowar Citizen of Elthesh Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK Posts: 949	To reduce blurriness with ClearType, you might want to play with this: Microsoft ClearType Tuner PowerToy Edit: haha, simul-post

15 May 2007, 00:11	#22
Shoonay Global Caturator Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Porando Age: 43 Posts: 6,105	LOL, even the same time

15 May 2007, 02:09	#25
UncleSpam Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 161	Well, I don't see any problems, with all the screenshots and with my WinUAE interface. I use ClearType all the time, since I use a laptop and an external LCD display. Now, if all you do is configure WinUAE and not actually run the emulation, then I can see where the font would be a problem b.

15 May 2007, 07:57	#28
Calgor (Amigas && Amigos)++ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anrea Posts: 999	LOL, shouldn't we be complaining about emulation issues?? Anyway, my preference is for the old font (i don't use cleartype nor know how to set it - even with cleartype on as displayed by infoVS closeup, it's just not as clear - and it doesn't look like the classic Amiga bitmap fonts which have none of this multi-colour smoothing!!!!). I probably notice the difference more due to my sharper LCD screen compared with a CRT which will gloss over those colour differences and merge them better. But whatever Toni likes is good enough for me.

15 May 2007, 07:59	#29
jasonver2.0 ABR Creator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Australia Age: 44 Posts: 178	New glasses perhaps? @Ironclaw - All fonts looks 'blurry' if you zoom in enough.

15 May 2007, 08:35	#30
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,505	Do you have Vista font installed on your XP machines? WinUAE supports two "new" fonts, Tahoma (tahoma.ttf in windows\fonts) , which was first introduced in Windows 2000 and Segoe UI (segoeui.ttf) which was introduced in Vista. Tahoma is default font in Windows 2000+ so it should look same as explorer's default font.

15 May 2007, 11:16	#33
Shoonay Global Caturator Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Porando Age: 43 Posts: 6,105	Here InfoVS, have a joint... I'm sure you'll appreciate the colorful ClearType fonts now!

15 May 2007, 11:32	#34
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,505	Ok. I guess the easiest solution is to only allow Segoe UI if running in Vista and default to Tahoma if Windows2000+ and "original" if 98/ME. I don't really want to add "useless" GUI options if possible. (=install Vista if you really want Segoe UI font in next WinUAE version )

15 May 2007, 12:04	#35
InfoVS Posts: n/a	I guess this is an OK solution. Thanks Toni, regards

15 May 2007, 23:42	#36
_Steve_ Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: UK Posts: 44	I have this font installed at the moment as well, but it wasn't something I consciously added. My current machine has only recently had XP installed from scratch (SP2 included on the install MS-CD). Very few applications have been installed, so unless the font was included on the XP SP2 cd, I can only conclude one of these added it. As such, the new look UI does look a bit odd over the traditionally used Tahoma font from the previous versions, and as shown above, it is blurry by default (using a 17" CRT here).

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