Fast Red Zone and other fastmem-relocated projects - Page 12

paraj · 27 November 2022, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retroplay

Pressing F2 ingame in Killing Cloud v2.0 (fast relocated slave) makes it quit back to Workbench.

If I do the same with old v1.0 or v2.0 NoReloc slave, it switches to rear view.

Good catch, there's an issue with the keyboard hook, though it's F4 that accidentally quits for me.

jotd · 27 November 2022, 10:42

ok found the issue, released a new 2.1 with the fix. I'm really too confident with minor changes nowadays

Reynolds · 28 November 2022, 09:33

Just thinking... Powermonger isn't a clearly vector gfx based game, but has stencil vectors, and is definitely faster on a Vampire for example, can it get some boost as well with Fastram relocation? Same with Populous 2, some speed fix would be awesome, as on high spec configs the standard screen is quite fast, but when I change to the fullscreen view it drops down the speed. Can be there any solution to get balanced somehow?

Retroplay · 28 November 2022, 15:10

US version (SPS 3019) MUST have CUSTOM3=1 set even with v2.1 NoReloc slave, if not it crashes with an error.
I set this already in icon to avoid this.

PAL version (SPS 3031) support fast relocation, noreloc file is added to data dir next to disk images.

Btw, it's not my slave, it's JOTD's.

jotd · 29 November 2022, 20:52

bug confirmed. not cool...

jotd · 29 November 2022, 23:24

aaaand fixed. Thanks git and frequent commits. It was working on an earlier version and I could track down the change! That was close

Reynolds · 30 November 2022, 08:20

Regarding the Killing cloud... The cheat of turning in/out the cloud is available only in the first mission. Can it be extended to all others too?

jotd · 30 November 2022, 10:39

That would be awesome, but in the end I think that the detailed data just isn't there, else they would have left it in.

My theory is that they created level 1 with a lot of detail, saw that it was a slideshow on A500 and created the other levels with less detail, adding the "cloud off" option for level 1 so they could show their detailed 3D model (instead of removing it)

Reynolds · 30 November 2022, 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd

That would be awesome, but in the end I think that the detailed data just isn't there, else they would have left it in.

My theory is that they created level 1 with a lot of detail, saw that it was a slideshow on A500 and created the other levels with less detail, adding the "cloud off" option for level 1 so they could show their detailed 3D model (instead of removing it)

I think as you can fly the same map, it should be kinda similar, but you can have right, with remarking that this could be a possible "cheat" or similar which wasn't removed before releasing the final version...?

For me viewing distance was always too short to travel with adequate speed, but can happen that with the actual speedup I can learn to control the vehicle better, so it won't be a problem from then...

jotd · 30 November 2022, 11:19

If I can enable "cloud off" in other missions believe me I will.

Reynolds · 30 November 2022, 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd

If I can enable "cloud off" in other missions believe me I will.

Yay!

Reynolds · 30 November 2022, 11:46

Maybe a bit lame question, but regarding the A500, if it is a 68000-driven config but with real fastram, can that give any boost? I can't recall any difference when I use my A500 with an A590 for example, but there should be some...?
Other thing is, with the fastram relocation may that happen, if a game was asking for 1.5MB chipram and X MB Fastram, then it will run with less chip ram as well? My A1000 is asking it...

jotd · 30 November 2022, 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynolds

Maybe a bit lame question, but regarding the A500, if it is a 68000-driven config but with real fastram, can that give any boost?

I think so, since code now runs in fast. But on a 7MHz I'm not sure that replacing the blitter by the CPU helps a lot.

Quote:

Other thing is, with the fastram relocation may that happen, if a game was asking for 1.5MB chipram and X MB Fastram, then it will run with less chip ram as well? My A1000 is asking it...

1.5MB chip? which one? Generally it's because the slave is old and doesn't bother about handling fast mem. Report those.

alexh · 30 November 2022, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynolds

Maybe a bit lame question, but regarding the A500, if it is a 68000-driven config but with real fastram, can that give any boost? I can't recall any difference when I use my A500 with an A590 for example, but there should be some...?

The amount of work a 7MHz 68000 with no instruction cache can do during the time it would have been stalled had it been running from chip-ram is probably not that much.

Add in a CPU instruction cache and increase clock speed and you're loosing a lot of processing power running from chip-ram when stalled waiting for chip-ram access.

Reynolds · 30 November 2022, 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd

I think so, since code now runs in fast. But on a 7MHz I'm not sure that replacing the blitter by the CPU helps a lot.

1.5MB chip? which one? Generally it's because the slave is old and doesn't bother about handling fast mem. Report those.

Okay, that makes sense with speed.
I wrote from memory that there were games which required more chip ram than normally would.

Good to know that this has changed. Now just have to work out how to upgrade my whd stuff in it's easiest way, instead of one by one. :P

alexh · 30 November 2022, 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd

I think so, since code now runs in fast. But on a 7MHz I'm not sure that replacing the blitter by the CPU helps a lot.

I didn't even consider that. It is surprising that it is not slower than the non-reloc version that uses the blitter.

paraj · 30 November 2022, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

I didn't even consider that. It is surprising that it is not slower than the non-reloc version that uses the blitter.

The new slave is probably not going to get good performance on a plain 68000. The fastram stuff probably gives the ~25% you would expect from not having to wait on chip ram, but you lose (I think) quite a bit from it replacing the SMC. The CPU replacement code is optimized for 020+ (really 060) so I expect it to be much slower than the original code, though trying it in WinUAE it doesn't seem noticeable (probably due to the SMC thing).

Angus · 30 November 2022, 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd

If I can enable "cloud off" in other missions believe me I will.

As Reynolds said, I think you're always flying in the same city (San Francisco) and it's just that you fly to different parts of it - so maybe there is a fog off/on switch somewhere. Showing my deep understanding of coding once again. ;-)

Reynolds · 02 December 2022, 09:24

Tried FB how it runs... One thing was the damn poor framerate, but also encountered an error during flight. The mountains and lake are about 200 ft high from the ground... Can it be a similar issue as it was in Epic?

jotd · 02 December 2022, 10:03

Try with NOCACHE

I'll zone a fastmem version for comparison. But paraj says that it could be improved even more by doing the same processing as he did for Killing Cloud

27 November 2022, 10:42	#222
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,161	ok found the issue, released a new 2.1 with the fix. I'm really too confident with minor changes nowadays Last edited by jotd; 27 November 2022 at 10:52.

02 December 2022, 09:24	#239
Reynolds Alien Breeder Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Szigetszentmiklos / Hungary Age: 46 Posts: 1,096	Tried FB how it runs... One thing was the damn poor framerate, but also encountered an error during flight. The mountains and lake are about 200 ft high from the ground... Can it be a similar issue as it was in Epic? Attached Thumbnails

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28 November 2022, 09:33	#223
Reynolds Alien Breeder Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Szigetszentmiklos / Hungary Age: 46 Posts: 1,096	Just thinking... Powermonger isn't a clearly vector gfx based game, but has stencil vectors, and is definitely faster on a Vampire for example, can it get some boost as well with Fastram relocation? Same with Populous 2, some speed fix would be awesome, as on high spec configs the standard screen is quite fast, but when I change to the fullscreen view it drops down the speed. Can be there any solution to get balanced somehow?

28 November 2022, 15:10	#224
Retroplay Lemon Curry ? Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Denmark Age: 49 Posts: 4,079	US version (SPS 3019) MUST have CUSTOM3=1 set even with v2.1 NoReloc slave, if not it crashes with an error. I set this already in icon to avoid this. PAL version (SPS 3031) support fast relocation, noreloc file is added to data dir next to disk images. Btw, it's not my slave, it's JOTD's.

29 November 2022, 20:52	#225
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,161	bug confirmed. not cool...

29 November 2022, 23:24	#226
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,161	aaaand fixed. Thanks git and frequent commits. It was working on an earlier version and I could track down the change! That was close

30 November 2022, 08:20	#227
Reynolds Alien Breeder Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Szigetszentmiklos / Hungary Age: 46 Posts: 1,096	Regarding the Killing cloud... The cheat of turning in/out the cloud is available only in the first mission. Can it be extended to all others too?

30 November 2022, 10:39	#228
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,161	That would be awesome, but in the end I think that the detailed data just isn't there, else they would have left it in. My theory is that they created level 1 with a lot of detail, saw that it was a slideshow on A500 and created the other levels with less detail, adding the "cloud off" option for level 1 so they could show their detailed 3D model (instead of removing it)

30 November 2022, 11:19	#230
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,161	If I can enable "cloud off" in other missions believe me I will.

30 November 2022, 11:46	#232
Reynolds Alien Breeder Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Szigetszentmiklos / Hungary Age: 46 Posts: 1,096	Maybe a bit lame question, but regarding the A500, if it is a 68000-driven config but with real fastram, can that give any boost? I can't recall any difference when I use my A500 with an A590 for example, but there should be some...? Other thing is, with the fastram relocation may that happen, if a game was asking for 1.5MB chipram and X MB Fastram, then it will run with less chip ram as well? My A1000 is asking it...

02 December 2022, 10:03	#240
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,161	Try with NOCACHE I'll zone a fastmem version for comparison. But paraj says that it could be improved even more by doing the same processing as he did for Killing Cloud

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