Gabriel Knight and shapeshifter on a blizzard 1230

[Aardvark]

Originally Posted by Marce

how do you tested the music in Gabriel knight ? winuae or real Amiga+ connected midi device?

A1200+nullmodem cable to PC, then hooked up with either Munt or VirtualMidiSynth.

[JimDrew]

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

I really wonder why this should be the case. Both do not need to emulate the CPU, but "only" need to patch MacOs. Then it depends mostly on the configuration, i.e. whether you have a file disk or a full partition, or whether you have an RTG graphics card or use native Amiga planar output. Without additional hardware, screen refresh through MuEVD is as fast as it gets without room for much improvement, and with an entire partition set aside for MacOs, IO speed is only limited by the hardware speed and not a function of the software.

It's not the case. Maybe Superscalar is turned off or something in this test? Switch to the Amiga side and look at FUSION's CPU info, that would tell you. As I stated, in all cases FUSION is much faster than Shapeshifter, especially with the FPU as I replaced all of Apple Pack 4 & 5 functions (written in C) with native hand optimized assembly code versions.

[Aardvark]

Originally Posted by JimDrew

It's not the case. Maybe Superscalar is turned off or something in this test? Switch to the Amiga side and look at FUSION's CPU info, that would tell you. As I stated, in all cases FUSION is much faster than Shapeshifter, especially with the FPU as I replaced all of Apple Pack 4 & 5 functions (written in C) with native hand optimized assembly code versions.

Ok, i did new benchmarks, and it shows more comparable results.
I don't know what was off in the old benchmark, I've since updated my system from 3.1.4 to 3.2.1 with latest MMULibs and P96.

[Marce]

Originally Posted by Aardvark

A1200+nullmodem cable to PC, then hooked up with either Munt or VirtualMidiSynth.

but that's a crazy Franskestein way to play a game
I'm talking about something serious which the ppl can use to play GK , ie winuae
which config can be used for example to play GK for winuae and shapeshifter?

[NovaCoder]

Originally Posted by Marce

but that's a crazy Franskestein way to play a game
I'm talking about something serious which the ppl can use to play GK , ie winuae
which config can be used for example to play GK for winuae and shapeshifter?

If you're using Winuae just use scummVM RTG which has native MIDI support in Winuae, I wouldn't even bother with Mac emulation.

https://aminet.net/package/game/misc/ScummVM_RTG

[Aardvark]

Originally Posted by Marce

but that's a crazy Franskestein way to play a game
I'm talking about something serious which the ppl can use to play GK , ie winuae
which config can be used for example to play GK for winuae and shapeshifter?

Well, that's easy then. Forget WinUAE and use DOSBox.

[Marce]

Originally Posted by NovaCoder

If you're using Winuae just use scummVM RTG which has native MIDI support in Winuae, I wouldn't even bother with Mac emulation.

https://aminet.net/package/game/misc/ScummVM_RTG

that's was what I recommended from the beginning,
play the DOS version

the Mac version of GK is really buggy and does not works fine in MAC emulators
is slow and the music gets corrupted

but the member Aardvark says that GK works fine, then I just want to know if he is trolling or he found a real way to play GK in mac emulators

[Aardvark]

Originally Posted by Marce

that's was what I recommended from the beginning,
play the DOS version

the Mac version of GK is really buggy and does not works fine in MAC emulators
is slow and the music gets corrupted

but the member Aardvark says that GK works fine, then I just want to know if he is trolling or he found a real way to play GK in mac emulators

Here is quick video of the game running in WinUAE+ShapeShifter+General Midi. [ Show youtube player ]

If the game is buggy and slow for you, then perhaps DamienD's preinstalled HDF can help you find the reason. It can be found on Turran FTP.

[Nobby_UK]

DamienD's version shows the same weird colours
(as Basilisk) if I click out of the game window.

[vulture]

Originally Posted by Marce

but that's a crazy Franskestein way to play a game
I'm talking about something serious which the ppl can use to play GK , ie winuae
which config can be used for example to play GK for winuae and shapeshifter?

See post related to the package DamienD uploaded to the TURRAN FTP weeks ago.

If you want Midi though then you'd need to add http://aminet.net/package/misc/emu/MidiShape and also enable in WinUAE.

[JimDrew]

Originally Posted by Aardvark

Ok, i did new benchmarks, and it shows more comparable results.
I don't know what was off in the old benchmark, I've since updated my system from 3.1.4 to 3.2.1 with latest MMULibs and P96.

Something is still way off. Maybe you are trying to use the same system software with both? That will NEVER work unless you used the "Apple Universal Installer" CD and did a deliberate installation for "ALL MAC MODELS". If you didn't, you can't use the same SYSTEM hard drive with FUSION and Shapeshifter. In fact, you can't even boot it once by mistake on the wrong emulator without causing system resources to change. You CAN use the same data hard drives, just not SYSTEM.

Imagine that every Amiga model came with its own unique Workbench installation that was not fully (or at all) compatible with other Amiga models. So, the A500 Workbench would not work with an A2000, etc. That is EXACTLY what Apple did with ALL of their Mac models. Each machine came with hardware specific system software that only works on that Mac model (based on the base hardware and the ROM). It was not until the very end of the Mac's life when Apple finally created a Universal System Software Installer CD, starting with OS7.5.3.

FUSION uses different hardware resources, even if using the exact same ROM as Shapeshifter. So, you MUST have two different SYSTEM hard drives.

I see with your comparison that FUSION's CPU and video is slower, but the math functions are a LOT faster, but not as fast as they should be. Something is stealing mass amounts of CPU time with FUSION. What video driver are you using for FUSION? What video card?

I will say one thing for sure, and that FUSION is not officially compatible with OS3.2... that OS is a hack. They tried to get me to help fix the problems they had with whatever changes they made to Exec and they cobbled together some type of low memory reservation that is a kludge. There will be a new version of RsrvMem released with FUSION 4 that fixes these issues.

[Zarnal]

Originally Posted by vulture

See post related to the package DamienD uploaded to the TURRAN FTP weeks ago.

If you want Midi though then you'd need to add http://aminet.net/package/misc/emu/MidiShape and also enable in WinUAE.

With " LoopMidi " ?

[Aardvark]

Originally Posted by JimDrew

Something is still way off. Maybe you are trying to use the same system software with both? That will NEVER work unless you used the "Apple Universal Installer" CD and did a deliberate installation for "ALL MAC MODELS". If you didn't, you can't use the same SYSTEM hard drive with FUSION and Shapeshifter. In fact, you can't even boot it once by mistake on the wrong emulator without causing system resources to change. You CAN use the same data hard drives, just not SYSTEM.

It is "All Mac models" installation, and the same Mac System partition is used by both emulators. Never thought it would be the problem.

Originally Posted by JimDrew

I see with your comparison that FUSION's CPU and video is slower, but the math functions are a LOT faster, but not as fast as they should be. Something is stealing mass amounts of CPU time with FUSION. What video driver are you using for FUSION? What video card?

My video card is Radeon 9200 with Mediator, and Fusion is using P96Refresh driver at 60fps. ShapeShifter was set to internal P96 driver with "Refresh rate" setting 1.

Originally Posted by JimDrew

I will say one thing for sure, and that FUSION is not officially compatible with OS3.2... that OS is a hack. They tried to get me to help fix the problems they had with whatever changes they made to Exec and they cobbled together some type of low memory reservation that is a kludge. There will be a new version of RsrvMem released with FUSION 4 that fixes these issues.

How about OS3.9? Does it have your blessing?

Originally Posted by Zarnal

With " LoopMidi " ?

No, just select MIDI Out device on WinUAE's "IO ports" setting page.

[JimDrew]

Originally Posted by Aardvark

It is "All Mac models" installation, and the same Mac System partition is used by both emulators. Never thought it would be the problem.

So, you are using OS7.5.3 or later and you deliberately changed the installer to be "all Mac models"? There is psuedo-secret menu you have to go to in order to do this.

Originally Posted by Aardvark

My video card is Radeon 9200 with Mediator, and Fusion is using P96Refresh driver at 60fps. ShapeShifter was set to internal P96 driver with "Refresh rate" setting 1.

Set FUSION's refresh to 30FPS, that would be the same, and will definitely have a significant impact on CPU performance. I have never seen this video card before so I am not sure how much of the QuickDraw acceleration would be supported.

Originally Posted by Aardvark

How about OS3.9? Does it have your blessing?

Technically, no. FUSION only officially supports up the last version of Kickstart/Workbench that was released by Commodore. However, I do know that everything released before OS3.2 seems to work without any issues. OS3.2 needs patching.

[Aardvark]

Originally Posted by JimDrew

So, you are using OS7.5.3 or later and you deliberately changed the installer to be "all Mac models"? There is psuedo-secret menu you have to go to in order to do this.

The option is called "Universal System for any Macintosh" to be precise, no need to ask same question twice.

Originally Posted by JimDrew

Set FUSION's refresh to 30FPS, that would be the same, and will definitely have a significant impact on CPU performance. I have never seen this video card before so I am not sure how much of the QuickDraw acceleration would be supported.

ShapeShifter's P96 RTG driver is 60 fps, not 30 fps, at least on my GPU. This can be seen in my test video at 1:55:14 in the Mac game "Souls in the System". [ Show youtube player ]

Actually the ShapeShifter's "Refresh rate" setting doesn't seem to have any effect to it, so maybe it's for native graphics only.

[Thomas Richter]

Originally Posted by JimDrew

It's not the case. Maybe Superscalar is turned off or something in this test? Switch to the Amiga side and look at FUSION's CPU info, that would tell you. As I stated, in all cases FUSION is much faster than Shapeshifter, especially with the FPU as I replaced all of Apple Pack 4 & 5 functions (written in C) with native hand optimized assembly code versions.

Interesting. I do not know why Shapeshifter should turn it off, that's actually the job of the CPU library to identify the buggy versions of the 68060. Concerning the FPU, do you potentially mean APPLE SANE (the "math pack" of Mac Os). I though (or at least this is what Inside MacIntosh has to say) this would be using 68881/882 instructions anyhow if a FPU is detected, but maybe Apple decided against it as this would require emulation for the 68040 (and hence the 68060). I had the impression that APPLE SANE was already assembler, but maybe not?

[JimDrew]

Originally Posted by Aardvark

The option is called "Universal System for any Macintosh" to be precise, no need to ask same question twice.

The installer CD is called that, but you deliberately have to enable the "ALL MAC MODELS" option in a sub-menu, otherwise the installer attempts to determine what Mac you are using and installs ONLY those resources it thinks are necessary. You deliberately have to force the installer to install system software for ALL Mac models. This was required for things like Syquest cartridges that might be shared between Macs.

Originally Posted by Aardvark

ShapeShifter's P96 RTG driver is 60 fps, not 30 fps, at least on my GPU. This can be seen in my test video at 1:55:14 in the Mac game "Souls in the System". [ Show youtube player ]
Actually the ShapeShifter's "Refresh rate" setting doesn't seem to have any effect to it, so maybe it's for native graphics only.

This would be a native driver then. You can run FUSION's native driver as well - called P96Direct. That will make a significant difference as zero CPU time is required for handing the video.

[JimDrew]

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

Interesting. I do not know why Shapeshifter should turn it off, that's actually the job of the CPU library to identify the buggy versions of the 68060. Concerning the FPU, do you potentially mean APPLE SANE (the "math pack" of Mac Os). I though (or at least this is what Inside MacIntosh has to say) this would be using 68881/882 instructions anyhow if a FPU is detected, but maybe Apple decided against it as this would require emulation for the 68040 (and hence the 68060). I had the impression that APPLE SANE was already assembler, but maybe not?

I was referring to FUSION turning it off (which would make all of the benchmarks slower). FUSION has an option to turn off Superscalar because there are programs for the Mac that will not run with it enabled. It's on by default, but if you turn it off it will stay off (even after re-running FUSION) until you enable it.

Apple's SANE is what handles the system math, but the Packs 4 & 5 in particular (which I replaced with assembly, due to Apple's poorly coded C) are the packages that every single OS FPU call goes through, and those deal with high precision math (which the OS itself uses for doing everything including simple things like determining the window positions). The Macs always came with a MMU, but you could get a FPU-less version (LC models for example), and so knowing this possibility Apple made developers use the math packages for calling anything needing math. This was a layer that handled 68881/82 emulation when you didn't have a real FPU, guaranteeing that 100% of software would work. Although some programs (like KPT Bryce! and other filters for Photoshop) attempted to determine if a real FPU was being used by poking at the hardware directly via FPU instructions, this was highly frowned up by Apple and always caused problems because Motorola often times did not actually make CPUs with the FPU core removed. Any 040 that did not pass ALL of the FPU diagnostic testing was labeled as "LC". The problem is that SOME of the FPU instructions might work perfectly while others do not.

[Aardvark]

Originally Posted by JimDrew

The installer CD is called that, but you deliberately have to enable the "ALL MAC MODELS" option in a sub-menu, otherwise the installer attempts to determine what Mac you are using and installs ONLY those resources it thinks are necessary. You deliberately have to force the installer to install system software for ALL Mac models. This was required for things like Syquest cartridges that might be shared between Macs.

"Universal System for any Macintosh" is name of the installation option

For third time, that is what I installed.

[JimDrew]

Great.. that indeed is using the special CUSTOM INSTALL pull-down menu (which is not the default setting) to force the type of installation you need. The U.S. English OS7.6.1 and OS8.1 use a different installer setup, and I am pretty sure terminology too because my documentation from back in the 90's has the information about needing to select "ALL MAC MODELS". OS7.5.3 was the very first version that Apple released that had a Universal Installer available.

I would recommend using OS8.1 though - it's faster, and hands down a much better OS with advanced features compared to OS7.x.

FUSION 4 will support using ISO images. So you will be able to mount a .iso, .cue, .toast, or other Mac ISO image format to emulate a CD-ROM.