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Old 14 October 2022, 09:32   #21
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A browser-based Amiga emulation for iPad and iPhone

OK.. pretty rad thanks for this hardwork!

So I tested that Logitech K830 BT keyboard works but must hold ALT for spacebar to work and CTRL for cursor arrows to work inside of ASMTwo (and as opposed to the iPad Combo Touch keyboard there actually is an ESC key on the K830 lol -the tech world really seems to be moving away ‘standards’ and ‘conventions’ heading where I do not know)


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Old 14 October 2022, 17:16   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by japandrej View Post
hey I just wanted to thank you for this!
@japandej I am glad you like it ! Your feedback is appreciated...

Quote:
Originally Posted by japandrej View Post
Works like a charm, it's so amazing to see the Amiga emulated on iOS, and especially having the A600 connected to the iPad via Keyrah/usb-C is mind blowing to me, like a small and portable demostation!
nice setup ! especially good idea to use a A600 as a keyboard... because its nice and has a very compact size. When I see it correct the Keyrah does not power the iPad simultaneously with electricity? which would be even better if it would do that right?



Quote:
Originally Posted by aZtOcKdOg View Post
Is this all floppy based or do hdfs work?
https://vAmigaWeb.github.io does support HDFs thanks to github user https://github.com/mras0 who donated the necessary controller / board code

any .hdf file thrown at vAmigaWeb is mounted as DH0, while any other file e.g. ADF .DMS or .exe is mounted in DF0.


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OK.. pretty rad thanks for this hardwork!

So I tested that Logitech K830 BT keyboard works ...
@aZtOcKdOg good to hear that it works for you ... any nice pictures of your setup ?

Last edited by yesplease; 14 October 2022 at 17:32.
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Old 14 October 2022, 18:51   #23
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How are u navigating OS GUI? Is this all floppy based or do hdfs work?


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The image I've posted is just WB 1.3 booted from an .adf but the .hdf files work well too, especially with the 030 support, I just launched a clone of my A1200 real Amiga setup.

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nice setup ! especially good idea to use a A600 as a keyboard... because its nice and has a very compact size. When I see it correct the Keyrah does not power the iPad simultaneously with electricity? which would be even better if it would do that right?
Yeah, actually it's the other way around, the iPad is powering the Keyrah, but that is also fine because it's a truly portable setup without the need for any external power source. Basically I could take this "Amiga" to a coffee shop or work/play remote.

I have one question - the mouse works well with touchpad setting (btn|move|btn), but I also tried connecting the bluetooth mouse which is supported in the iPadOS15 where you get that little dot cursor - but it doesn't work in the emulator? That's the pointer lock API issue with iPad OS?
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Old 14 October 2022, 19:14   #24
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... in the iPadOS15 where you get that little dot cursor - but it doesn't work in the emulator? That's the pointer lock API issue with iPad OS?
@japandrej

yes correct... with input='mouse' I just forward anything what the pointer lock API gives us to the emulated AmigaVM. I just don't get why Apple does not map their fancy new iPadOS15 little dot mouse cursor to the PointerLock API. I mean it is obviously a pointer ... no?

if anyone knows how to get data from that iPadOS15 little dot mouse cursor in Safari please tell me ... I will connect it to the vAmigaVM then
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Old 14 October 2022, 19:17   #25
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A browser-based Amiga emulation for iPad and iPhone

@japandrej

Hey I’ll see if this detailed response quote from @yesplease works:

Quote:
Originally Posted by yesplease View Post
@aZtOcKdOg

Safari does not (yet) map the BT mouse nor the keyboard combo touch pad to the mouse pointer lock API. Same story for chrome on Android ... so the input 'mouse' which maps the native mouse input to vAmigaWeb does not work on mobile yet... works only on a Laptop computers. Really don't know why they did not do that ... I mean you can plug any exotic BT game controller into vAmigaWeb and it plays fine but an ordinary mouse is not yet supported on mobile platforms ... I think this will be fixed be google or apple in the future because it just feels weird not to support it

alternatively to a real mouse there are still two 'mouse touchpad' implementations for your touch screen ... dragging on your devices screen will make the mouse move ... as for the buttons there are two control schemas

'btn|move|btn' means left mouse button when you touch the left screen edge, right mouse button when you touch the right edge of the screen ... move when swiping in the middle of the screen ... left button is 10% of the left screen side| move 80 % | right button is 10 % of the right screen side

'move|right btn/left btn' means 50% of the left side is for mouse moving and the right 50% of the screen is the two buttons. On the top right quadrant is right button and the right bottom part of the screen is the touch area for the left mouse button.
@yesplease

Awesome man, yeah I will grab some pics soon

Hey quick Q:

Does vAmigaWeb currently support ‘actual’ saving to a mounted media such as ADF or is it saving to a version that is in the iPad device memory only (and as such will not be present on the original ADF used and any changes are lost after cold reboot or restart of vAmiga?)

I have just had some strange behaviour that * I think * a bootblock intro somehow replaced another file on the ADF and/or any saves I made to my code (eg. in ASMTwo) were there but not there when remounting the same ADF again at a later time?

Thank you for any help!

Oh and @japandrej your setup is ultimate man it is like the WinUAE setup I had with an x86 tablet that I configured Windows to boot into UAE with no GUI on startup w/ keyrah v2 powered via USBOTG cable w/ an A600 case and keyboard… it feels SOOOO AWESOME! I love your setup (iOS or iPadOS rather, kinda feels just a many levels closer to an Amiga than Winblows ever will! I imagine the Apple silicon Mx series tabs will be even closer!)


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Old 14 October 2022, 19:24   #26
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Originally Posted by yesplease View Post
@japandrej

yes correct... with input='mouse' I just forward anything what the pointer lock API gives us to the emulated AmigaVM. I just don't get why Apple does not map their fancy new iPadOS15 little dot mouse cursor to the PointerLock API. I mean it is obviously a pointer ... no?

if anyone knows how to get data from that iPadOS15 little dot mouse cursor in Safari please tell me ... I will connect it to the vAmigaVM then
Cool, understood. Yeah, I guess they don't even know really where to go with this iPad OS in terms of it being a desktop replacement or something in between. Maybe some things change with the 16 version. Anyways thanks again for this!
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Old 14 October 2022, 20:02   #27
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Originally Posted by aZtOcKdOg View Post
Hey quick Q:

Does vAmigaWeb currently support ‘actual’ saving to a mounted media such as ADF or is it saving to a version that is in the iPad device memory only (and as such will not be present on the original ADF used and any changes are lost after cold reboot or restart of vAmiga?)
Hmmmmm hangon is this what ‘save snapshot’ can be handy for? can I *only* save to “local browser space” or can it save back to the ADF file? if not, is there a way to dump the browser memory space back to a file in ‘Files’ using iOS / iPadOS?

Also, the HDF gets loaded into the DF0: labelled dialogue box? Can that be relabelled as ‘MEDIA’ or ‘FILE’ to help better convey the ability to load a number of diff file types even when not displaying the tooltip (just coming from a UX/UI angle with this suggestion)


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Old 14 October 2022, 22:16   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aZtOcKdOg View Post
Does vAmigaWeb currently support ‘actual’ saving to a mounted media such as ADF or is it saving to a version that is in the iPad device memory only (and as such will not be present on the original ADF used and any changes are lost after cold reboot or restart of vAmiga?)
It is like this. When you mount any file to df0: or dh0: then writing to these do survive a reset of the AmigaVM (the reset button in vAmigaWeb nav bar) but they will not be made persistent to your local browser space unless you command it to do so.

Ways to persist your modifcations to HDF or ADF:

usecase "export ADF/HDF"
click 'take snapshot' in the navbar. A dialog opens there you click on 'export state the current state of disk in' df0 or dh0 in the left bottom part of the dialog. This will export the disk or hard disk to your host filesystem i.e. iOS where you can send it anywhere or just reuse this the next time you cold launch vAmigaWeb

usecase "save complete snapshot"
click 'take snapshot' in the navbar. A dialog opens there you click on 'save'. This will save a snapshot of the complete AmigaVM into your local browser space ... i.e. local indexed database. Then with the snapshot browser you can just click the snapshot to reactivate your session after a cold boot of vAmigaWeb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aZtOcKdOg View Post
... or can it save back to the ADF file? if not, is there a way to dump the browser memory space back to a file in ‘Files’ using iOS / iPadOS?
see above usecase "export ADF/HDF"


Quote:
Originally Posted by aZtOcKdOg View Post
Also, the HDF gets loaded into the DF0: labelled dialogue box? Can that be relabelled as ‘MEDIA’ or ‘FILE’ to help better convey the ability to load a number of diff file types even when not displaying the tooltip (just coming from a UX/UI angle with this suggestion)
good point... currently the box is overloaded 1.it is a button for the user to click when it wants load new media (or drag_and_drop media into it) 2.it displays latest disk activity for df0 and dh0 then it changes to label 'dh0 248' for example

I have to think about it... the point is I want to be as minimalistic as possible because on a tiny iPhone you got not so much screen area. Any suggestions are welcome ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by japandrej View Post
Cool, understood. Yeah, I guess they don't even know really where to go with this iPad OS in terms of it being a desktop replacement or something in between. Maybe some things change with the 16 version. Anyways thanks again for this!
when they change this then we will change too ... I would say we are ready for it right? ... did you know that when you connect a MFI/XBox or PS4-controller with your iPad then you can select it in vAmigaWeb in port1/port2 ?
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Old 14 October 2022, 23:56   #29
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Ways to persist your modifcations to HDF or ADF:

usecase "export ADF/HDF"
click 'take snapshot' in the navbar. A dialog opens there you click on 'export state the current state of disk in' df0 or dh0 in the left bottom part of the dialog. This will export the disk or hard disk to your host filesystem i.e. iOS where you can send it anywhere or just reuse this the next time you cold launch vAmigaWeb

usecase "save complete snapshot"
click 'take snapshot' in the navbar. A dialog opens there you click on 'save'. This will save a snapshot of the complete AmigaVM into your local browser space ... i.e. local indexed database. Then with the snapshot browser you can just click the snapshot to reactivate your session after a cold boot of vAmigaWeb.
Great news, this looks like an amazingly agile emulation solution… and as you said, as it is based on a fresh clean codebase with a definite goal and a seemingly modular progressive dev path (ie. features becoming solid and integrated) it is a pleasant surprise to see this project and your dedication to providing excellent support through onpoint communication. It’s just really great. Thank you

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... did you know that when you connect a MFI/XBox or PS4-controller with your iPad then you can select it in vAmigaWeb in port1/port2 ?
You can? Using Safari? This was my next question… I couldn’t get it to appear in the list in either Gameport slot…

(lol my apologies, I really seem to be tripping myself up at every stage of getting this running and I know it is made to be extremely straight forward- it is just so much cleaner than all the UAE4ARM / WinUAE solutions that I think I just need to become acquainted with this responsive multi-device scaleable web app) …again thanks for any info


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Old 15 October 2022, 03:28   #30
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You can? Using Safari? This was my next question… I couldn’t get it to appear in the list in either Gameport slot…
Yes, it works really well (though I have it as PWA).

On the other hand, it might be handy to be able to remap the fire button to something else other than spacebar when using the keyboard? It's a bit 'cumbersome' key to keep mashing.
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Old 15 October 2022, 09:15   #31
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@japandrej awesome stuff! Yeah I have a couple of DualShock4 and a I treated myself to a DualSense Galaxtic Purple just for the USB-C connector more than anything but it is nice! I use a DualShock2 on my real Amiga 1200 / CD32 / A600 (although the A600 is for studio activities rather than gaming)

I hope to get my controller working now too wow great photo and Amiga games just look so amazing… I will however be playing Gods (with latest WHDLoad patch with second button jump) and Deluxe Galaga ECS.

(Small tip: check for WHDLoad updates for any of your favourite platformers as they are all getting the ‘second button jump’ treatment replacing ‘up for jump’ even Turrican series has now which puts it straight in the league against any console ports of the time! Yay!)

Alright I hope I can get it working haha it’s Saturday night and I am keen for some gaming!


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Old 15 October 2022, 09:17   #32
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Oh yeah sorry when I say Safari I mean PWA ops:


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Old 15 October 2022, 16:42   #33
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(UPDATE)
Yeah strangely enough (and I tested this multiple times)
The DualSense controller is recognised instantly, its available in the drop down list in GamePorts but….

and I am not sure if it’s just the particular model revision of DualShock4 (its the limited edition Dark Transparent Blue for ome of those AAA games back a few yrs back)

But it wont recognise it unless I click GamePort 2 then GamePort1 then GamePort2 again… strange? I have anither DS4 controller here I will charge up and try its a different revision (its the older type before the led strip was visible above the touchpad)

Anyway, have got the controller working! id say there is a frame of latency though… not bad for platformers like Gods but almost RIP in Deluxe Galaga lol… also the DualSense seems to have more latency than the DualShock4 (but I already thought that when playing Horizon Chase 2 on the Apple TV 4K so…)


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Old 15 October 2022, 21:01   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aZtOcKdOg View Post
(UPDATE)
Anyway, have got the controller working! id say there is a frame of latency though… not bad for platformers like Gods but almost RIP in Deluxe Galaga lol… also the DualSense seems to have more latency than the DualShock4 (but I already thought that when playing Horizon Chase 2 on the Apple TV 4K so…)

very good find ... I looked into the sources ... HTML5 gamecontroller API is not event based but has to be queried periodically... vAmigaWeb queries this API every frame but it does this AFTER executing one Amiga Frame ...

what is going on is this


worst case:
1.execute frame
query gamepads
->trigger gamepad signal just after this query
20ms-(frame execution time maybe 4 ms) duration to next frame
2.execute frame (without the signal)
query gamepads (this one registers the signal and forwards it to AmigaVM)
20 ms
3.execute frame (this one processes the signal)

best case:
1.execute frame
->trigger gamepad signal just before the query
query gamepads
20ms-(frame execution time maybe 4 ms) duration to next frame
2.execute frame (with the signal)


in worst case it would process contoller signals 16ms+20ms = nearly two frames and in the best case 16ms

i.e. gamecontroller lag is currently between 16ms and 36ms that is the extra frame you mentioned

if we just change the order of the query we can bring the lag down to between 0ns and 20ns

see worst case:
1. query gamepads
->trigger gamepad signal just after this query
execute frame
20ms duration to next frame
2. query gamepads (this one registers the signal and forwards it to AmigaVM)
execute frame (with the signal)

best case after reordering is now 0ms because execution takes place directly after the query


I will change that and push a new version later today

@aZtOcKdOg I have an idea for the overloaded file/media slot nav bar button... we label it 'files slot' and only when a disk or harddrive is inserted it will become a track display... currently it shows also the stepper motor of df0 when there is no disk in it... when ejecting all disks we write 'files slot' to it...

Last edited by yesplease; 15 October 2022 at 21:18.
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Old 15 October 2022, 21:57   #35
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@aZtOcKdOg @japandrej

new version '2022_10_15' just pushed to https://vamigaweb.github.io

changes:
----------
1.reordered querying game controller API to reduce input lag
2.file slot button is labeled 'file slot', shows track information only when disk is in drive
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Old 15 October 2022, 22:20   #36
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if we just change the order of the query we can bring the lag down to between 0ns and 20ns

I will change that and push a new version later today
Wow, I like the sound of that new latency! Look fwd to testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by yesplease View Post

@aZtOcKdOg I have an idea for the overloaded file/media slot nav bar button... we label it 'files slot' and only when a disk or harddrive is inserted it will become a track display... currently it shows also the stepper motor of df0 when there is no disk in it... when ejecting all disks we write 'files slot' to it...
Nice. Dynamic yet still utilitarian- I like it!

——

Regarding HDFs:

Are there any specific attributes of a HDF file that would return the error “undefined” or something like “out of range or memory” (or similar) and wont allow me to use a 512MB size HDF?

Is it the file size? The emulator that initially created the HDF? Some sort of AGA or machine specific info in the header hunk? (if thats the correct term)

After that above error/s requires a full cold reatart ie quit and reload vAmiga from PWA icon on homescreen

Also can a ZIP simply be a working bootable Amiga HDD Directory zipped? Or is that just referring to the usual ‘it doesn’t matter if your ADF / DMS FDD image is contained within a ZIP file’?

——

Keyboard Behaviour:

Is it a known issue that for space key to work you must use ALT+SPACE

Arrow keys require CTRL+ARROW KEYS to move cursor…

…or is it just my particular kboard? :hmm:


Great work! Thanks
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Old 16 October 2022, 00:38   #37
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On the other hand, it might be handy to be able to remap the fire button to something else other than spacebar when using the keyboard? It's a bit 'cumbersome' key to keep mashing.
@japandrej Oh yes I see ... there is a feature in vAmigaWeb which allows you for customize ... maybe this will be a solution for you ?

you can remap the fire button like so:
1. create a new action button with '+' icon from the nav bar
2. give it a label e.g. 'fire [a]'
3. give it a shortcut key e.g. 'a'
4. give it an action script 'j2fire1=>await_action_button_released=>j2fire0'
j2 refers to joystick port2
5. save it

now whenever you press key 'a' the joystick2 fire button triggers

the action button can be dragged around and also the opacity can be modified to your needs...

@aZtOcKdOg

Quote:
Originally Posted by aZtOcKdOg View Post

Regarding HDFs:

Are there any specific attributes of a HDF file that would return the error “undefined” or something like “out of range or memory” (or similar) and wont allow me to use a 512MB size HDF?

Is it the file size? The emulator that initially created the HDF? Some sort of AGA or machine specific info in the header hunk? (if thats the correct term)

After that above error/s requires a full cold reatart ie quit and reload vAmiga from PWA icon on homescreen
possibly a bug... I never tried with such a big hd file ... can you please open an issue at https://github.com/vAmigaWeb/vAmigaWeb ?

thanks !

Quote:
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Also can a ZIP simply be a working bootable Amiga HDD Directory zipped? Or is that just referring to the usual ‘it doesn’t matter if your ADF / DMS FDD image is contained within a ZIP file’?
Zip file support means that you put any zip containing one or multiple mountable files into vAmigaWeb which displays then the contents of the zip and you can choose to mount a file from it. When zip contains only one mountable file it will be auto mounted. After mounting the zip file stays open in background so for disk switching you don't need to open iOS file dialog again.

It does not mean that you can zip a HDs directory and mount this to vAmigaWeb as an HD.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aZtOcKdOg View Post
Keyboard Behaviour:

Is it a known issue that for space key to work you must use ALT+SPACE

Arrow keys require CTRL+ARROW KEYS to move cursor…

…or is it just my particular kboard? :hmm:
keyboard behaves good here ...

please check whether you have selected the keyboard in game port1 or port2 ? because in that case the arrow keys and the space key would be mapped to joystick movements and fire button instead... and no more to amiga keyboard keys ... which would explain what you see

Last edited by yesplease; 16 October 2022 at 02:07.
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Old 17 October 2022, 08:54   #38
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Changes are spot on :thumbs up:

The gamepad feels far more responsive… just a quick question is the directional events a seperate instance to the fire buttons? I am just wondering as the movement feels amazing but (now I am unsure whether it is Deluxe Galaga ECS as I usually play the AGA version) but seems like maybe 1 in 5 fire button presses don’t register. it is probably the game (it likely uses some trickery to make upgrades make the game feel ‘more responsive’ rather than than any issue with the emu… but still thought I would mention it)


Hmmm the keyboard issue is persistent between both my keyboards… I will next dig out my USB C -> USB dongle and try some wired keyboards to see if its a ‘Logitech’ issue seeing as both keyboards (K830 and Combo Touch) are the same brand…
(I have ensured to be doing all your suggestions)

The HDF issue then kills the ‘file slot’ for any media so yes I will take some more detailed notes on the process to recreate this issue and post an issue on Git.. thanks @yesplease


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Old 18 October 2022, 19:55   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yesplease View Post
@japandrej Oh yes I see ... there is a feature in vAmigaWeb which allows you for customize ... maybe this will be a solution for you ?

you can remap the fire button like so:
1. create a new action button with '+' icon from the nav bar
2. give it a label e.g. 'fire [a]'
3. give it a shortcut key e.g. 'a'
4. give it an action script 'j2fire1=>await_action_button_released=>j2fire0'
j2 refers to joystick port2
5. save it

now whenever you press key 'a' the joystick2 fire button triggers

the action button can be dragged around and also the opacity can be modified to your needs...
I just tried this and yeah, it's all I needed really!
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Old 22 October 2022, 06:54   #40
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@yesplease Does the vAmiga emu support 2 button games?


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