AmigaKit still in business

[Korodny]

Originally Posted by stevelord

The smart thing to do now would be for Simulant Systems Ltd and AmigaKit Ltd to talk to each other and resolve the issue. The obvious thing surely is for Simulant Systems Ltd to offer AmigaKit Ltd advertising space as part of an agreement covering how the mark is used and how Amigakit Ltd's mark is distinguished in exchange for not opposing.

Why exactly would that be "the obvious thing"? AmigaKit are implying that nobody can register "Amiga [anything]" in this particular class - that's the shitty part of this story, because I don't think that's a valid legal standpoint. If the existing "Amiga Kit" mark would invalidate the "Amiga Addict" registration, then surely Amiga Corporation's 20 years older (and still active) trademark "powered by Amiga" would invalidate AmigaKit's mark? The difference here is that apparently, Amiga Corp. isn't bullying AmigaKit.

This is the big kid in the schoolyard bullying one of the smaller kids, hoping that the smaller kid will get scared and walk away.

(and no, I'm not defending Simulant - that keyboard crowdfunding effort was both cringeworthy and publicly urinated all over other people's trademark rights)

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by Bren McGuire

the hipocrisy of this all, is that you all happily hype up and go and buy amigaos 3.2, which feeds another company that is another cog in the lawsuit/horseshit machine that the Amiga brand is.

get your act together, either support the amiga, or dont. the reason a vulture like amigakit pulls off this kind of shit is because bellends like us have created a "culture" where this is allowed and supported as long as we get something in return that we can somehow put in our Amiga computers.

dont buy from amigakit, dont get amiga forever, dont buy os3.2, be consistent and these things will disappear. it's enough time we play fools and give a pass to absolutely all of these acts. these "companies" must disappear.

shame on amigakit, but also on all the "community", which after a few weeks, will have forgotten about this, and will keep buying from them, or just not even care about it. this is NOT the first time amigakit pulls some shady shit like this off (remember amigapassion?? no of course you dont nobody talks about it anymore) yet here they are, in business, getting sales, and doing it all over again.

disgusted at everyone

As I mentioned before, they know people will come back, and even people who have negative experiences will come back when they get desperate for certain items they will use sellers who have perhaps pissed them off in the past. It's because it's a niche scene. I agree with what you are saying BTW.

[stevelord]

Originally Posted by dalek

They have no right to exclusively claim Amiga in print when it refers to the product Amiga.

You are correct. Also AmigaKit Ltd have made no claim of any kind related to this instance. Trademark law is complicated to unpick. If you want to understand what's happening I provided a summary.


AmigaKit doing something stupid would be on form. But they haven't (yet).

Originally Posted by Bren McGuire

weren't they the ones who tried to MANY TIMES pass off some garbage chinese USB keybaords as Amiga keybaords?


are they somehow related to Amiga Addict, in which case, Amiga Addict also should go on the shitlist for trademark trolling?

Simulant Systems Ltd filed for the trademark. It'd be reasonable to assume they own the rights. If they didn't that would be spectacular funny though.

[Minuous]

I agree, it's a reprehensible bullying tactic. It would be bad enough if they actually had some special rights to the word "Amiga" but they don't.

Next thing they will probably try to make me change the name of AmiArcadia, after all it has 3 letters of their trademark in it :-(

[stevelord]

Originally Posted by Korodny

Why exactly would that be "the obvious thing"? AmigaKit are implying that nobody can register "Amiga [anything]" in this particular class - that's the shitty part of this story, because I don't think that's a valid legal standpoint.

AmigaKit have made no such implication. In fact, this accusation from the Amiga Addict twitter account:

"Any reason as to why you are trying to harm a community-led Amiga magazine that is helping the Amiga scene @amigakit ???"

Is the closest thing to the suggestion that nobody can register Amiga [anything] in this class, but is still very far from such a thing. How AmigaKit filing a TM7a materially harms "a community-led Amiga magazine that is helping the Amiga scene" is beyond me, perhaps we'll never know.

Originally Posted by Korodny

This is the big kid in the schoolyard bullying one of the smaller kids, hoping that the smaller kid will get scared and walk away.

No. Simulant Systems Ltd took legal action to register a trademark in the same class as an existing publisher's mark. That publisher had the opportunity to defend, which they filed to extend. That's it. That's all there is. Nobody is bullying anyone. Nothing stops Amiga Addict from publishing. Amiga Format had no trademark. CU Amiga had no trademark. They didn't have problems with books, merch or anything else.

The funniest I've seen this described as is shit cloanto vs shit hyperion. I guess which is which can be determined by which one pays contributors.

[squirminator2k]

Originally Posted by Bren McGuire

oh so i am the bad guy in this scenario? sure.
you seem to fail to note that i included myself in the narrative, as part of the community.

but sure go ahead and keep hiding your head in the sand. you're american, that's what you people love to do.

I'm not American, but cheers for this. Some beautiful straw-grasping to kick off my day. Love it.

[squirminator2k]

stevelord, your explanation clears some things up, but I am still gently confused - why file an extension if they don't intend to oppose?

[mcgeezer]

The very fact that companies are registering trademarks such as Amiga is what pisses me off .

A very sad state of affairs for the Amiga scene.

[clebin]

Originally Posted by stevelord

The 2 month limit sticks out. Being charitable about service, AmigaKit can be erm... slow with poor comms to say the least. It would not surprise me if they didn't notice the filing until close to the end of any period.

It's the same trademark class. If AmigaKit didn't object, then someone else filing something like say, "Amiga Kids" for childrens Amiga project kits could argue that prior filings were unopposed. When people say you can lose your trademark if you don't defend it, this is part of what's meant.

No Amiga magazine publisher (as far as I can tell from the IPO website) has filed a trademark with the UK IPO. We don't know why Simulant Systems Ltd decided to file, but that is legal action threatening AmigaKit Ltd's existing trademark. For once AmigaKit Ltd aren't the ones (yet, but give it time) being shitty here.

Again, thanks for the calm and considered context. That makes sense and it seems like I may have to apologise for overreacting. I’ll wait to see how things pan out before commenting any more. One thing I will stand by though, the legal stuff surrounding the Amiga is endless, pointless and exhausting and I’m royally sick of it.

[stevelord]

Originally Posted by squirminator2k

stevelord, your explanation clears some things up, but I am still gently confused - why file an extension if they don't intend to oppose?

If they don't oppose at all and someone else ("company C") registers something similar it could impact a future judgement. They don't have to oppose and it's usually best to reach an agreement on how those marks are used (e.g. Amikit never publishes a mag, Simulant never publishes AA manuals, calendars etc) so that future claims can be challenged. It's not about trying to stop Amiga Addict from doing anything, it's just the shitty way trademarks work.

[Korodny]

Originally Posted by stevelord

If they don't oppose at all and someone else ("company C") registers something similar it could impact a future judgement.

You're still implying "Amiga Kit" and "Amiga Addict" are so close to each other that they can not coexist. Please explain why.

And while you're at it, please explain why Amiga Kit tried to register "Amiga Kit Gotek" in the very same class - which, according to your theory, would have been completely unnecessary since they already own - according to you - "Amiga [anything]".

[stevelord]

Originally Posted by Korodny

You're still implying "Amiga Kit" and "Amiga Addict" are so close to each other that they can not coexist. Please explain why.

I've not. Short of getting out crayons I'm not sure how I could've been more explicit in what I've said. It's not about "closeness" at this stage.

Originally Posted by Korodny

And while you're at it, please explain why Amiga Kit tried to register "Amiga Kit Gotek" in the very same class - which, according to your theory, would have been completely unnecessary since they already own - according to you - "Amiga [anything]".

Again I can explain things to you but can't understand them for you. You seem to have confused me with someone who understands Amigakit's inner workings as opposed to someone who's been through UK trademark processes.


I never said anyone owns Amiga anything. I said the AA twitter account's accusation was the closest to saying noone can own Amiga anything. The point being AA's accusation is the closest thing to an attempt to police what people can and can't do but is actually quite far from that.

[Korodny]

Originally Posted by stevelord

Again I can explain things to you but can't understand them for you.

Drop the attitude please. And try to address my actual questions.

You said: "The obvious thing surely is for Simulant Systems Ltd to offer AmigaKit Ltd advertising space as part of an agreement covering how the mark is used"

-> Why would it be the "obvious thing" for Simulant to make concessions? That's your statement. Explain why Simulant "obviously" needs to negotiate with AmigaKit?

You said: "and it's usually best to reach an agreement on how those marks are used"

-> Why do you think they need to reach an agreement,unless you think the marks are too close to each other?

[Galahad/FLT]

This is a spurious claim by Amigakit.

It should be enough for Amiga Addict to have a small disclaimer at the bottom of their editorial page saying:

"Amiga is a registered trade mark of Amiga Inc (to separate the connection away from Amigakit and align itself solely with Amiga Inc), Amiga Addict is not endorsed blah, blah, blah"

I dont know how Amigakit think they can get away with this, historically Commodore knew the point of Amiga Power and Amiga Format wasn't to infringe on their copyright or trademark, and that it was to associate magazines with a specific machine.

Considering the majority of any Amiga business dealings are going to be with people who were there when the Amiga was an actual commercial concern, nobody, and I mean nobody would seriously entertain that the name Amiga Addict is in anyway evocative of what Amigakit is doing.

What I especially find irritating is that Amigakit have known about this for days, and have done ZERO to quel rumours that they are getting trademark antsy with people.

The Amiga market is niche enough without this bollocks.

Until this is resolved, I cannot in good conscience put money into Amigakits pockets, I won't support this behaviour and I sure as hell won't endorse it.

Its high time consumers started flexing the power they have.

Analogical Computers are still active, isn't it time we got them to join EAB and let us know what they can do?

[AF2013]

I have unfollowing the AmigaKit on Twitter for way they treating Amiga Addict like shit as They(Amiga Addict) havnt done anythings wrong as all they did was sell the Amiga Mags, Mugs, Blinders and that it.

Seem quite lots of Amiga Users decide stop buying from Amigakit and buy other Amiga website instead!

[QuikSanz]

amigastore.eu does quick delivery to the US and prices are OK, they carry most products in stock.

Chris

[rats]

I am a freelance writer on AA so this is my 2 cents. But I cannot speak for simulant systems.

We registered a trademark just like thousand do every week to protect our brand and help us grow. Producing mugs and binders it’s more then a magazine but also in the age of digital pdf distribution there is nothing stopping somebody printing the magazine themselves and printing our products essentially killing our whole endeavor. None of us are lawyers and trying to trade mark troll we just followed the guides from the government to submit like the majority do.

AA was previously in communication with amigakit about advertising so they had plenty of opportunity to contact us. Filling an threat to opposition is not an opposition, yet. Seeing previously what happened to retro passion (another basically one man operation) and a1200.net it seems to be a pattern and we know what comes next. Was it done by a lawyer or automatically I don’t know but amigakit state it was done to open lines of communication which we already had.

Personally I think being able to opposed anything with ‘amiga’ in printed form is pretty bad for the future of the community in regards to history books and other material. I would understand more if we were using a logo they were using or were anything remotely close to their brand. Maybe that’s how trademark law works but I am not a lawyer. It seems crazy to me as many computer systems have magazines with the name of the system on them and the Amiga has a rich history of it.

We even had Mike Battilana on the first issue and featured him in a two page interview he seemed to back the magazine and what we were doing so thought everything was going in the right direction. Maybe if going for a trademark was the wrong thing to do they could of simply dropped an email and pointed us in the right direction. AA has never shown any animosity towards them and always tried to be approachable and friendly.

It just seems off to me, Maybe they are butt hurt because they stock Amiga Future, Maybe because simulant stock os 3.2. Who knows?

Anyway that’s my personal views just thought I would give something from a team members perspective who’s met amigakit many times irl and they have been friendly as anything. I have brought products from them and they were one of the only outfits about in the dark days. If anything they can benefit from having more amiga magazines to help business and grow the community. I would not want to see any Amiga business destroyed as they all add something. It just feels like an unnecessary smack in the mouth.

Like I said before I cannot speak for simulant systems or Johan so take this as a personal opinion and not a statement.

[1time]

I left Amigakit a long time ago. I buy my stuff from other stores/pages now!

[stevelord]

Originally Posted by rats

We registered a trademark just like thousand do every week to protect our brand and help us grow.

A trademark doesn't protect your brand. It registers rights to a specific mark (in this case, logo). This registration would list Simulant Systems Ltd as the registered rights-holder of the design in the UK. It's only real benefit is in legal action against anyone using the Amiga Addict logo without permission, or creating similar works in the same class (e.g. an Amiga publication or calendar called Amiga Addicts). That legal action would still have to take place for enforcement and trademark registration would not wouldn't automatically grant judgement in Simulant Systems Ltd's favour.

Originally Posted by rats

Producing mugs and binders it’s more then a magazine but also in the age of digital pdf distribution there is nothing stopping somebody printing the magazine themselves and printing our products essentially killing our whole endeavor.

That's covered under Copyright law not Trademark law. The registration of a mark shouldn't have any bearing on what you describe. It might have a bearing on someone using the logo to sell unofficial merch, but again that still requires court involvement. A question worth asking would be whether Simulant Systems Ltd's impairment by someone doing this would be greater than the cost of filing and protecting the mark.

Originally Posted by rats

Personally I think being able to opposed anything with ‘amiga’ in printed form is pretty bad for the future of the community in regards to history books and other material.

Agreed, but nobody in this situation has done that. The TM7a is a way to extend time, as you said in your comment not an opposition in itself. If AmigaKit tried to police a mark they don't own I'm unsure how they could expect that to end well for them.

Originally Posted by rats

I would understand more if we were using a logo they were using or were anything remotely close to their brand. Maybe that’s how trademark law works but I am not a lawyer. It seems crazy to me as many computer systems have magazines with the name of the system on them and the Amiga has a rich history of it.

I think people get ahead of themselves because of AK's prior shitty actions against good people like Chucky and Retropassion. What you're describing aren't good objection reasons. If they do object they'd have to provide reasonable grounds. It's worth looking at options following an objection page. An objection doesn't end the application, it just complicates the process. The primary benefit to Simulant Systems owning a UK trademark is in enforcing legal action against the use of the AA logo mark within the UK. This would still require Simulant to file a court case against someone else using the mark for it to happen. I could see Simulant Systems Ltd trying to stop someone to produce a charity calendar of "Amiga Addicts" (ie people who love Amigas) but enforcement wouldn't be automatically successful.

That would also come across as somewhat against the community spirit in which AA asserts to be based, but might just be someone thinking the trademark means something it doesn't.

Originally Posted by rats

It just feels like an unnecessary smack in the mouth.

I can understand this. But this is a technical legal process Simulant Systems Ltd started, not AmigaKit. Nothing will stop Amiga Action from being published, nor from doing merchandising. Trademarks are a great way to transfer money from people to lawyers, but for small brands the value isn't really there. It honestly makes no sense to me. Unless you're talking household names it's rarely worth it.

[dreadnought]

Originally Posted by Radertified

Must everything in the community be tarnished by legal fights?

Aka "The Curse Of Amiga".