OSSC (Open Source Scan Converter) with an Amiga

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by Shaytan

Have you tried the WHDLoad version of F1GP?

Anyway I quote myself


IMHO you're focusing too much on a resolution which is mostly just used for the workbench while your effort should be better spent in getting the standard PAL resolution to work properly with a smooth 50hz scrolling.

I get you, I just think it's strange I can't use that driver or even have it in the Devs folder due to the screen promotion.

I dunno about the WHDload version, I can't use F1GP-ED with that so I could never commit to solely just using that as an alternative.

I guess now I realise taking the DBLPal driver out of the folder things start working, technically I could probably hook up the OSSC again and use another mode for the workbench then see if I still have some trouble with games.

Some observations - I can get multiscan to work for a workbench screen as noted before, however, I get a flickery line in the title bar.

If I use the same settings using VGA input of the OSSC I don't get the flickery title bar. If I use with Scart I get the flickery title bar.

If I play games with using the VGA input of the OSSC the quality is horrendous, with crazy vertical lines ruining the display. Less noticeable on workbench screen.

If I use scart, the game display doesn't have these defects although quite a few are off to the right of the screen.

How about that for a load of headache.

[Gryfon]

Originally Posted by Total Eclipse

Kaiko are listed as an approved seller nowadays, just as VGP are.

Good to know! Thanks for the update.

[Jope]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

I get you, I just think it's strange I can't use that driver or even have it in the Devs folder due to the screen promotion.

Disable mode promotion in IControl prefs.

But then again, why slow your Workbench screen updates down at all with DBLPAL stuff, instead focus on getting regular PAL visible, that's where the gaming will be at.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by Jope

Disable mode promotion in IControl prefs.

But then again, why slow your Workbench screen updates down at all with DBLPAL stuff, instead focus on getting regular PAL visible, that's where the gaming will be at.

Does it take longer for DBLPal screens to load?

I think I managed to get an ordinary PAL Hi Res screen to work, I had to use overscan to fill the screen though other wise I had a floating box in the middle of the screen.

[Jope]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

Does it take longer for DBLPal screens to load?

No, there's not really any loading involved.

The faster the screen refresh rate, the more sluggish everything graphical the OS does becomes. You start seeing how the GUI is drawn from little pieces the higher you go in colours and refresh rate. Move a window, it redraws itself slower in the new location and so on.

[Shaytan]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

Does it take longer for DBLPal screens to load?

I think I managed to get an ordinary PAL Hi Res screen to work, I had to use overscan to fill the screen though other wise I had a floating box in the middle of the screen.

Be aware that you may have problems positioning the screen correctly in regular PAL games/demos unless you save 2 different profiles, one for Workbech with overscan and one for "anything else".

PAL Hires (640*256) will be treated as 288p by the OSSC just like any other games even if they are displayed in a lower resolution as long as the vertical one matches the 288p range so it will share most of the samplerate, horizontal and vertical positioning settings.

In my setup only the Workbench screen is filled, games and demos all have black borders.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by Jope

No, there's not really any loading involved.

The faster the screen refresh rate, the more sluggish everything graphical the OS does becomes. You start seeing how the GUI is drawn from little pieces the higher you go in colours and refresh rate. Move a window, it redraws itself slower in the new location and so on.

Ok I get ya, sorry that is what I meant, not loading but redrawing

Originally Posted by Shaytan

Be aware that you may have problems positioning the screen correctly in regular PAL games/demos unless you save 2 different profiles, one for Workbech with overscan and one for "anything else".

PAL Hires (640*256) will be treated as 288p by the OSSC just like any other games even if they are displayed in a lower resolution as long as the vertical one matches the 288p range so it will share most of the samplerate, horizontal and vertical positioning settings.

In my setup only the Workbench screen is filled, games and demos all have black borders.

Yes I understand that, but I'm used to the games being centred at least.

I will give the Pal Hi Res setting another go.

Do you use DBLPal then for your workbench screen?

[Shaytan]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

Yes I understand that, but I'm used to the games being centred at least.

I will give the Pal Hi Res setting another go.

Do you use DBLPal then for your workbench screen?

Yes I do, and I use just one profile on the OSSC because DblPAL is recognized as 576p while standard PAL is either 288p or 576i (for interlaced resolutions) so they don't share any "Advanced timing tweaker" options.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by Shaytan

Yes I do, and I use just one profile on the OSSC because DblPAL is recognized as 576p while standard PAL is either 288p or 576i (for interlaced resolutions) so they don't share any "Advanced timing tweaker" options.

I'm jealous!!

[rabidgerry]

Been some developments, so I discovered when I went back to my GBS that the gives where displaying of centre there also. But Workbench was centred. So then I realised I could centre the games with the monitor and then when it went back to workbench I could use overscan to move the position so I would not have to keep re-syncing or repositioning using either GBS upscaler or the monitor itself. So 72 - 14 postioned workbench nicely in the centre and then when I went to play games they were also in the centre too!

So I figured if I go back to the OSSC it would be the same scenario.

I was right!

I still can't use the DBLPal driver as it messes F1GP up (even messes it up in WINUAE on another CF card) and I don't seem to be able to get a picture with my monitor. So I just tried to get a picture using Pal Hi Res or something else. First one I tried was Pal Super Hi Res (1200 - 256). Did everything to get a picture and fill the screen. Managed this successfully but the icons seemed a little weird still so I was going to change to something else. I flicked back to Pal Hi Res and this actually seemed to work quite nicely using the same settings I conjured up for Super Hi Res. So I got me a full screen display. But I want to work on it and get pixel perfect, can this be done using this screen mode?

Another thing, when making up this setting I ended up with a sample rate of 1600!! Is this bad? What does it do?

Like it worked well immediately right of the bat those settings so I dunno if that's good or not. Might need to play with some other settings for picture quality, not sure what the hell I'm doing when messing with phase, hard to tell what setting is best. Is this where I need to get that checkerboard screen pattern that doesn't seem to work for me?

Besides all that, may be I will keep the device after all.

[MrClump]

My EA192M arrived a lot sooner than I thought it would, nice monitor! I didn't realise it had the whole swivel/tilt and height adjustable thing going on, three video inputs too!

However.

It does not seem to like the output from the OSSC one bit, at least not when connected to an Amiga. When I can get an image it seems to be struggling to maintain sync, flashing between showing an image that is incorrectly shunted off to the side or a black screen.

I fear you may indeed be fighting a losing battle trying to get this screen to work fully with your OSSC.

Saying that, it does seem to work quite nicely connected to the Amiga directly with a VGA cable. I was able to get a decent DBLPAL High Res workbench that completely filled the screen. It also syncs down to 15khz, although the lack of image controls seems to hamper that.

I may keep it seeing as I got it for a song!

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by MrClump

My EA192M arrived a lot sooner than I thought it would, nice monitor! I didn't realise it had the whole swivel/tilt and height adjustable thing going on, three video inputs too!

However.

It does not seem to like the output from the OSSC one bit, at least not when connected to an Amiga. When I can get an image it seems to be struggling to maintain sync, flashing between showing an image that is incorrectly shunted off to the side or a black screen.

I fear you may indeed be fighting a losing battle trying to get this screen to work fully with your OSSC.

Saying that, it does seem to work quite nicely connected to the Amiga directly with a VGA cable. I was able to get a decent DBLPAL High Res workbench that completely filled the screen. It also syncs down to 15khz, although the lack of image controls seems to hamper that.

I may keep it seeing as I got it for a song!

I definitely can get an image of the OSSC 100%, about 3 or 4 modes, but I was pursuing the DBPal mode which should perfectly fit this monitor as you all have pointed out and as I have mentioned could not get an image with it.

In my last post before this I mention I got Hi-Res pal working on settings I actually created for Pal Super Hi Res. I am happy to share settings if you like.

Regarding the NEC, yes the stand is excellent, and yes it takes native Amiga as I mentioned that was the reason I got it in the first place, however it always chopped off the bottom of my screen a little when I ran it natively and I think I had shitty vertical lines using mine from what I remember.

So if you use just RGB to VGA adapter and connect into the monitor by itself, and use DBLPal you get a nice crisp image on the monitor? Are you using buffered adapter or un-buffered? Intrigued that this works for you and not through OSSC.

Has to be noted there are more adjustment options going into the VGA input of this monitor than using the Display Port or DVI-D input.

I do not know if I should quit while I am ahead at this point or if I should take a punt on another monitor in the 5:4 format. I have my sites on a nice Eizo FlexScan S1921 which seems to also have a lot more options for correcting the pixel clock unlike the NEC. It's cheap but then do I need a growing number of monitors? Already have a Samsung I need rid off.

[MrClump]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

In my last post before this I mention I got Hi-Res pal working on settings I actually created for Pal Super Hi Res. I am happy to share settings if you like.

Yes please.

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

Regarding the NEC, yes the stand is excellent, and yes it takes native Amiga as I mentioned that was the reason I got it in the first place, however it always chopped off the bottom of my screen a little when I ran it natively and I think I had shitty vertical lines using mine from what I remember.

I was getting the same in low res graphics modes, although it seems to work OK in the scan doubled modes.

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

So if you use just RGB to VGA adapter and connect into the monitor by itself, and use DBLPal you get a nice crisp image on the monitor? Are you using buffered adapter or un-buffered? Intrigued that this works for you and not through OSSC.

I would describe it as acceptable rather than crisp, but I've gotten used to the pin-sharp output from the OSSC so anything else looks fuzzy to me now. I'm using an unbuffered VGA cable bought from a.mi.goun on Amibay.

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

It's cheap but then do I need a growing number of monitors? Already have a Samsung I need rid off.

Is it possible to have too much computer kit?

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by MrClump

Yes please.



I was getting the same in low res graphics modes, although it seems to work OK in the scan doubled modes.



I would describe it as acceptable rather than crisp, but I've gotten used to the pin-sharp output from the OSSC so anything else looks fuzzy to me now. I'm using an unbuffered VGA cable bought from a.mi.goun on Amibay.




Is it possible to have too much computer kit?

I noticed those vertical lines when run without the OSSC disappear if you use an NTSC mode.

I did try a few modes like the DBLPal after you said about your results and I was able to get a decent image, acceptable yes, not crisp but a good enough picture, but again the bottom of the screen was gone, I could perhaps correct it using overscan but sure what's the point? It should fit really. The analogue input probably would correct that. I bet if you had a HDMI to VGA adapter and ran into the monitor it would allow for the DBLPal and correct size of the screen to fit without being chopped off.


Is it possible to have too much computer kit? Jeeez I dunno, I already have too much music kit never mind having too much computer kit

[rabidgerry]

Hmm been looking into exporting my settings but I don't seem to be able, @Shaytan how did you export your settings or dump to a Json file?

[Shaytan]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

Hmm been looking into exporting my settings but I don't seem to be able, @Shaytan how did you export your settings or dump to a Json file?

Unfortunately there isn't an export option for the settings so you have to use this website to create by hand the json or the bin file:

http://pbnl.byethost7.com/ossc/profiles/?i=1

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by Shaytan

Unfortunately there isn't an export option for the settings so you have to use this website to create by hand the json or the bin file:

http://pbnl.byethost7.com/ossc/profiles/?i=1

[Shaytan]

That's the way retrocomputing goes

[rabidgerry]

Ok @MrClump

Try this (see attached)

Feel free to tweak as I said these setting were made for Super Hi Res but for some reason work with Pal Hi Res and may be I could make them better. But initially it's a good image for workbench I think.

[rabidgerry]

Couple of questions for those who know.

So when I use the DBLPal driver it's putting out like 52.9hz. If my monitor can cope with an Amiga pal 49.92hz signal, why on earth can it not handle the 52.9hz?

Also what disadvantages are there to disabling screen productivity mode?