24 March 2016, 08:15 | #1 |
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Best open source, mod-able RTG-friendly FPS Engine running on 68k?
As the title says...
So many attempts, half-done stuff out there. I need some help finding the best one :-) I'm guessing the answer is some version of the original quake engine? Q2 is probably the last in line that could run comfortably on upper end 68k + RTG. Trapped 2/3 sources seem lost in cyberspace.... Then there's a whole bunch of interesting but abandoned efforts (like TKG RTG, XGloom).. Suggestions? The objective here is to identify the best platform for future Vampire-friendly mods :-) |
24 March 2016, 14:35 | #2 | |
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http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=80168 Here is one great example, Prydon Gate - a Diablo style RPG. |
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24 March 2016, 16:10 | #3 |
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Quake or QII would probably be the most interesting since they are well known and also true 3D engines.
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24 March 2016, 16:32 | #4 | |
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The answer I'm looking for is really a bit more specific.. *this* particular port of this engine with this patch etc... Working editors etc. |
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24 March 2016, 16:56 | #5 | |
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http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...&postcount=166 AFAIK all Quake ports require FPU, does Vampire even support that yet? Quake 2 is less useful because all mods need porting, and it has much less current support than the original Quake. As for editors, I know of nothing for Quake 2, but Quake on Amiga has Quest for Map editing, Demolicious for demo editing, PakMan for editing pak files, and a couple of QuakeC ports. You would of course be better off using PC software... |
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24 March 2016, 18:49 | #6 |
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Thanx @James
I'm looking for something that will run on the final version of Vampire. FPU should be there and P96. But warp3d is surely a no go . |
24 March 2016, 19:10 | #7 |
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24 March 2016, 20:20 | #8 | |
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Has anyone here tried the quake port that needs warp3d with wazp3d instead? If so, what kind of performance can you get on 060? (If it works) Last edited by eXeler0; 24 March 2016 at 20:54. |
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24 March 2016, 21:07 | #9 | |
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I haven't tried QuakeGL/BlitzQuake on my 68060@75MHz with Wazp3D but but I expect the performance would be poor. Using the software renderer for Quake would most likely be faster although uglier and probably limited to less colors (256). I updated some of the assembler routines used for Cowcat's QuakeGL back to Frank Wille's Quake where they came from. It compiles using vbcc and runs at reasonable speeds (512x384x8 RTG is a little sluggish but playable). Wazp3D would get you 16 bit support which looks much better but it wouldn't matter if it was a slide show. Again, you need a working FPU in either case. |
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24 March 2016, 22:17 | #10 | |
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Ye until that FPU shows up in the Vamp, an overclocked 060 +8-bit AGA would be used as test bed, for that, poor FPS is OK I guess. However, when the FPU *does* appear in the apollo-core, I expect it to be much faster than the one in 040/060. (Also, by then we might have some other interesting screenmodes to try out. I believe Apollo also has superior memory bandwidth and speed compared to something like Permedia 2 cards of the time (AGP1 maxes out at 250MB/s or something like that, and most Cards had 4 or 8MB RAM)) However, to get the most out of the Apollo-core I suspect parts would need to be re-written in assembler to make full use of the additional Apollo instructions? |
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24 March 2016, 23:00 | #11 | ||
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25 March 2016, 11:13 | #12 | |
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First time I hear they are running out of space in the FPGA, but then again, the rumors about the expansion port on the V1200 allowing bigger FPGAs maybe makes a bit more sense now :-) (Not that I'm complaining, I wouldn't mind paying $100 more to get the more advanced FPGA right away on the 1200 version, though I'm pretty sure it's not gonna happen). |
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25 March 2016, 17:36 | #13 | ||
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Most FPUs support double precision. The 68k and x86 FPU supported extended precision. FPUs are becoming less popular as SIMD units and GPUs are doing more of the fp work. Many SIMDs and GPUs are single precision fp only but supporting double precision fp is becoming more common. Most of the data being processed remains single precision fp. Quote:
The higher end accelerators (1200 and big box Amiga) and stand alone FPGA Amiga boards probably could sell for a higher price. I don't think you are the only one who would opt for a larger faster more expensive FPGA (perhaps with SerDes for SATA), more memory (up to 1GB), USB and ethernet. The accelerator for 68000 systems is more price sensitive though. |
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25 March 2016, 18:55 | #14 |
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So questions remain then about what sort of compatibility we will get from the Apollo-core FPU?
From a real world scenario, what approach would benefit the community best in your opinion @matthey ? By real world scenario, I mean that we can make a pretty good guess which software that currently requires FPU is going to be used most frequently by the Vampire users. I think something like running quake is much higher on the wish list compared to running 3d raytracing software etc. |
25 March 2016, 19:45 | #15 | ||
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25 March 2016, 20:38 | #16 | |
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IMO To use the Vampire for any kind of serious rendering should today be considered as just plain CRAZY :-) I think my overclocked 4.1GHz i7 is way to slow and that one is about a 1000 times faster than a 50MHz 060 (give or take). Even the best version of Vampire will be maybe a single percentage of a modern cpu. And then of course even the fastest CPUs are slow compared to GPU renderers (Octane, vray RT etc. ) My logic behind this reasoning is that it's the resulting experience that counts. If the Vampire makes it possible to run DukeNukem in 640*480. @30fps then that is usable and good. Reducing rendering times from 10 days to 3 days is still a couple of magnitudes to slow to be enjoyable. "Stick to the stuff you can do well" - kind of thing. 😁 |
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25 March 2016, 21:17 | #17 | |
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25 March 2016, 21:31 | #18 | |
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But if we can have it all, that would be fantastic. 👍 I hope we'll hear some good news about the FPU soon. I'm not expecting a Quake port specifically for Apollo like the one on Atari Falcon where this guy swapped some FP stuff to run on the DSP.. 😃 Or.....? |
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25 March 2016, 23:20 | #19 | |
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If we get a 68060 compatible enough FPU then I would expect existing software only Quake Amiga versions to be playable with an Apollo core, maybe even at 640x480. No modification required. |
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28 March 2016, 15:00 | #20 |
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Does Blitz Quake support the extended size maps?
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