02 August 2006, 12:07 | #1 |
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What are we allowed to download?
With this, I mean commercial software.
For example, I have the coverdisk of some magazine which included the CygnusED, but this disk is now rotten, I keep it to "prove" I have it legally, just in case and such. Still.... Are we actually alowed to download this kind of software, or should we (in the sense of strict copyright laws and such) buy the software all over again? With this, I do NOT mean to say "download wahtever you want" or somesuch, I just want a healthy and nice discussion of our morale when it comesdown to these things, which in some cases might actually be a copyright infringement. I recognize the fact that computers are computers, and for as long as they exist there WILL be piracy. But I would like to see what others think of the morality/legal aspect of the issue. |
02 August 2006, 12:20 | #2 |
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It isn't so much just morals here!
There is a fine line with regarding what we can cannot download and basically if it is still sold or supported then we can't share it. If I think that a certain piece of software is going to be a threat to EAB then I am going to remove it.. As for Cygnused you might want to contact AndreasM with the proof and he might let you download a copy of the exact same coverdisk, but tbh I cannot say for certain! |
02 August 2006, 16:47 | #3 |
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Rule of thumb: Hardly anything that's very new, that's for sure!
Games from 2000+ are usually sold and must not be uploaded anywhere! This also applies for download URLs. Also some games from 1995+ are -- regardless of their age -- even still sold by active companies like APC&TCP. HOL will help here a lot. Thanks to AndreasM's cooperation, we have now catalogized everything commercially sold by this publisher/distributor. In cases of doubt, FIRST take a look there, and do not make the mistake of uploading first then going like "Oh, I didn't know...". Last edited by andreas; 02 August 2006 at 16:53. |
02 August 2006, 17:07 | #4 |
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Maybe a list of still sold software could be set up in EAB's FAQ?
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02 August 2006, 17:38 | #5 |
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As I see it, there's NO morality in selling a 10 years ago software no more developed. But, nevertheless, speculators are part of the system.
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02 August 2006, 19:55 | #6 | ||
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Quote:
Most people mistakenly believe that old Ami magazine coverdisks (now and back in the day) are PD/freeware and may be freely copied. If you go back to the original magazines you will find that this is not the case. They usually had licenses which read along the lines that the coverdisks had to be bought with the magazine and could not be sold separately and could not be offered for resale secondhand. Obviously the last bit wasn't enforced by the mags as the logistics of doing so would have cost them more money than it was worth because usually it was private individuals who were reselling the coverdisks for pocket money. Quote:
Anyway, I reckon this topic has been done to death on all the forums including EAB. Does the FAQ need more info. or clarity on this aspect for newbies or something? |
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07 August 2006, 17:32 | #7 |
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I don't consider meself a "n00b" when it comes to the Amiga..... and hardly to EAB even nowadays
CygnusEd... I believe it was an CUAmiga Coverdisk, with v3.5 on it? Anyways, DiskRot(c) has claimed it My point here wasn't just CED, though, it was software in general, and the morality of downloading disks to replace rotten originals. And to that point, I personally believe that I bought the software, paid my money, and if I can't use the original disk (for any number or reasons, DiskRot(c), misplaced, and so on (if you've thrown the disk away, you're screwed, IMO, and should buy the software again)) am I morally obliged to buy a new one? That will (in the case of boxed things at least) leave me with two manuals, but only one useable disk. Though some might have a use for my "extra" manual, I don't want my bookshelf to be cluttered with two three four five manuals for the same software, does that make any sense? And just to make sure, what we call "abandonware" isn't, in the technical sense really abandonware, is it? I mean, none of it is over 50 years old and thus truly free of the copyright rules, especially since the Amiga is only 21 yo this year |
07 August 2006, 18:04 | #8 | |||
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Quote:
Quote:
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11 August 2006, 22:49 | #9 |
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there wont be any amigas left in 50 years
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11 August 2006, 23:05 | #10 | |
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Quote:
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11 August 2006, 23:12 | #11 |
Banned
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True
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12 August 2006, 00:07 | #12 | |
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Quote:
an ancillar concept to them is the one of usufruct/utilise of said tangible and intangible objects. in art for instance, who's to say where a piece, with all the context of significance it may have along itself, become property of the community? or an idea? law is by no mean perfect, it's just a tool, an approximation: to it morale, while founded it too on concorded values, is a far relative. you feel your right and wrong but you act on law' licit and illicit. sometimes, in law's wrinkles, like here you feel law to act stupidly. but you have to accept it (relatively) because at least a majority of rights are (relatively) safeguarded. however i kinda miss the more free days of my youth, on that respect. |
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12 August 2006, 05:02 | #13 |
Ya' like it Retr0?
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and we would like to thank brother padrana, for spending his time with us, his would be children, in our hour of moral crisis..
the baskets will be passed arround, all donations are gladly received. *lol awsome stuff there my friend, and i totaly agree and ascribe to it.* |
12 August 2006, 10:20 | #14 |
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lol! you don't have to take SO seriously my ramblings mate
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13 August 2006, 08:37 | #15 |
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My rule of thumb is that if it is no longer supported or sold (the revision or platform you need it for) then pirate it or find a used copy if you want a printed manual. I don't see an ethical problem trading ADF images for a dead platform when the company that produced the app is no longer around to support it or sell you a new copy.
Copyright is something that has changed quite a bit over the years, which is why Disney can still lay claim to the little rodent named Mickey Mouse (if you pay the correct people Copyrights will last forever). Just for the hell of it I picked a box off the shelf from a well known company (Rise of the Dragon by Sierra) to see what it says about bad disks. For the first 90 days they will replace your program (if you have a dated recept), after that it costs $5 per 5.25" Disk and $10 per 3.5" disk that needs replaced. So if I needed all 10 of my 3.5" disks replaced 91 days after I purchased it it would be $100, more then the program cost new. Asuming the people who own seirra are still around, do you think they would honor what was printed in their manual if one of my disks went bad tomorrow and I wanted a replacement? |
13 August 2006, 10:40 | #16 | |
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that's a very fine point you make, Unknown_K |
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14 August 2006, 06:33 | #17 |
Ya' like it Retr0?
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realistically a copywright has only been relinquished if the said works have in part or whole been available through any public domain. by doing so the license is released by the licensor.
thats pretty much the law. but as brother padrana states, law only exists to add a legal form to an abstract concept. again with the argument of Unknown_K, entropy all though morally valid is technically illegal, as simply it may retain somthing that could be sold on and hence worth value. but inrespects to modifying software here is the legal definition (act 1999 dpa) one can disassemble, in part or whole, any software to which a lisence has been granted for the use of said software. as long as. 1. to provide desired functionality wereby 1.a desired funtionality is not readly available 1.b where the lisencesor cannot make available said functionality. a lot of software try to infringe on ones rights by declaring a license as read is an agreement with (no decompilation or such can be undertaken of software for and said purpose). so where does it leave us. I that find morally duplicating your own software for your own needs is infact your own business, and in truth you are legaly allowed to do so (with limmitation) insofar as decompiling software, well i believe that by denying our right grants to much propriety power to the licensors. But the biggest gripe if have is the fact is that: I am leaglly allowed to duplicate for backup purposes any software i own. copy protection is infringing on my LEGAL right. so morally if they infringe on my right is it not fair that i should infringe on thiers? two wrongs may not make any right.. but by and large i am sure the make a good even |
14 August 2006, 06:43 | #18 |
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When it comes down to it every person on the planet is breaking some law or another on a daily basis just by living.
It all boils down to not what the laws are (good luck digging through moldy books going back to the dark ages finding out exactly what each law is in your area), but what you would be expected to get prosecuted for if somebody found out about it and what the penalties would be. Around here putting fairly recent copyrighted materials online for others to download, making exact copies of current software for sale to others, and reverse engineering some protected encryption standards will get you into real trouble while copying a music cd for a friend will not. |
14 August 2006, 10:52 | #19 |
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With respect to Retr0'æs post... does that mean, I can make Windows actually WORK? (Since MicroSoft seems comepletely unable todo so :P)
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16 September 2006, 00:15 | #20 | |
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Quote:
What about well-known online Amiga stores, e.g. Amiga Deals which is featured in the HOL links? By these grounds, if a title appears on their catalog it is not ok to redistribute it, but I might be wrong. For instance, several ClickBoom titles are featured, and support for them from ClickBoom itself has been more or less dropped if I'm correct. Not to say that ClickBoom was renowned for their technical support anyway... |
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