Which games did you struggle with at first, but get good at eventually?

[Megalomaniac]

It's very rare to complete a game at the first attempt. There are control systems to fully interpret, movement patterns to learn, hidden traps to memorise, power up sequences to work out, working out which formation suits your playing style or which levels benefit from an attacking approach. If you get stuck at a particular stage, it can be very tempting to give up - especially if you didn't pay for the game and you've got piles of other games to play.

However, I bet a lot of us had games where these things took time to click. One for me was CIVILIZATION, where even surviving at the lowest skill level took some time to achieve. My problem was forgetting what I was doing with each unit at each time, something I think I solved by making notes.

Another was RAINBOW ISLANDS. I'm ashamed to say, even beating the first boss took me a long time to master - indeed it wasn't unknown for me to ask my (younger) brother to take over and do this. Now, I can beat it fairly routinely, though I never completed it.

What is it that made you stick with a game, and which ones did you not stick with, and why?

[khayoz]

R-Type

Love that game, but still have trouble with it till this day.

[Cimmerian]

R-Type for me also

[TCD]

Mega Lo Mania. Took me a long time to figure out how to balance things to get past the first three eras.

[Predseda]

Turrican 3. Alien train jumping level was beyond my powers for a long time until one day i suddenly discovered it is just a matter of timing and now I can always complete the game.

[Megalomaniac]

One thing with Mega Lo Mania is that you do need to save a lot of men for the later levels, it's possible to complete the first epoch of 3 levels using only 30-40 of the 100 men, and saving the others for later epochs. I think my first few successes at getting to about epoch 5 saw me realise that I hadn't saved enough, meaning going back to the start. I did eventually complete it, as it turned out the final Mother of All Battles was easier than expected, you don't need to save as many men for it as you might assume.

[CCCP alert]

Uridium and Son of Blagger, probably loads more on my C64 as 8bit games can be quite tough at the start.

[kremiso]

i want start with two platform games

Lollypop does require a good training if you want complete it; once you know what to do in each level it does become doable and easy

also Bubble n Squeak, its imo impossible to complete the further levels at the first attempt, some areas need to be cleaned in the correct sequence, also due the water rising;
complex for being a platform, become better after a while

[Aardvark]

Goal! by Dino Dini. Only becomes enjoyable after getting better with ball control. Requires good old Suzo/Comp Pro/Zipstick to play, modern sanwa sticks are just too loose even after oversize actuator mod.

[Megalomaniac]

I knew someone would mention the Kick Off series, which Aardvark essentially has. Goal! strikes me as quite a bit easier to get to grips with, I could get to level 4 on the Arcade Challenge, but certainly still complex. I think you need to adjust to the mindset that things happen when you release the button, rather than when you press it, as it most other games in any genre. I'd love to master the actual Kick Offs one day, but I never seem to be able to get the players to do what I think I'm asking of them.

Not spent much time with Bubble N Squeak, but I'd definitely think of it as a puzzler that takes place on platforms, rather than a platformer with some puzzles. I think the OCS version has better AI for Squeak than the AGA version, so (if you can accept the bland backgrounds) it might be the better one to play?

[DisasterIncarna]

Milenium 2.2 / Deuteros
Every pinball game we have
Alien 3
Elite
Mercenary

and probably many more, if you asked which did we struggle with and still struggle with then i would throw in the likes of Captive 1/2 and probably a much bigger list.

[kremiso]

Originally Posted by Megalomaniac

...Not spent much time with Bubble N Squeak, but I'd definitely think of it as a puzzler that takes place on platforms, rather than a platformer with some puzzles. I think the OCS version has better AI for Squeak than the AGA version, so (if you can accept the bland backgrounds) it might be the better one to play?

i have completed both, and yes the ocs one is the better to play; there is a little delay response on AGA, noticeable when a couple of enemies are on screen, and when you must do a couple of things consecutively in a determined time (timing is essential in many parts here), it is easier to miss something on AGA

its a bit of shame cause some later levels have a great use of colors and worth a look

i havent deep tried the cd32 version yet, but seems exactly the same as the 1200 one

btw def a game to try if you like platform and puzzles combined

[Adropac2]

Originally Posted by Predseda

Turrican 3. Alien train jumping level was beyond my powers for a long time until one day i suddenly discovered it is just a matter of timing and now I can always complete the game.

yeah I was exactly the same on that bit until about a year ago when it seemed easier than I remembered. I think I've gotten better at judging my movement in games possibly as I think a little more these days. They say you tend to get worse at games or anything I guess but my brain seems to have woken up at the age of 50

[gimbal]

Originally Posted by Megalomaniac

However, I bet a lot of us had games where these things took time to click. One for me was CIVILIZATION, where even surviving at the lowest skill level took some time to achieve. My problem was forgetting what I was doing with each unit at each time, something I think I solved by making notes.

A problem I have to this day with Civ 5 and 6. Games tend to take longer than one session to finish and when I reload a game the next day... I've lost any and all engagement with it. I'm literally out of the game and my cities don't feel like my cities anymore. Whatever plans there might have been don't feel like my plans anymore. I can't really enjoy the game because of it. Heck I might have been on a mission to get a culture or tourism victory and then when I wake up the next day, I don't wanna anymore. I'm exceptionally well-trained at starting that game, but not at finishing it.

Never had that issue with Colonization. I guess the game mechanics are more straightforward, one real end-goal to play towards. That would be my pick; Colonization I really learned all the mechanics of and how to master it. Took a long time though.

[freehand]

No second prize but now days with a mouse I am shithot lol love the game but you need to be in the zone baby then it becomes hypnotic like a jeff minter game.

[A500]

Originally Posted by Megalomaniac

One thing with Mega Lo Mania is that you do need to save a lot of men for the later levels, it's possible to complete the first epoch of 3 levels using only 30-40 of the 100 men, and saving the others for later epochs. I think my first few successes at getting to about epoch 5 saw me realise that I hadn't saved enough, meaning going back to the start. I did eventually complete it, as it turned out the final Mother of All Battles was easier than expected, you don't need to save as many men for it as you might assume.

It was the same for me. If only I had had the manual back then Now I own the original and actually played it from the beginning again. Much more enjoyable when you know this small detail.

[gimbal]

Super Cars 2 would be another. It all started with a little demo on an Amiga Action coverdisk which allowed two player racing and had a jump in it that got the ball rolling. I really honed my skills on that game, getting to the point where I got 1st position in all races with my eyes closed and being able to take every shortcut a level had. I don't like racing games much because I can't stand the repetitiveness of lapping way too many times on the same track, but Super Cars added weapons, jumping, trains and overall chaos to a race so that really made it the ultimate racing game for me.

Super Cars 2 was among the first batch of games I got and I played it all the way up to the moment I lost the Miggy - and of course I now revisit it every now and then in WinUAE or on the A500 mini. Potentially one of the most replayable games of the system.

[d4rk3lf]

Civilization
Back in the day, I didn't know a whole lot of stuff I know now. For example, I didn't used Settlers to Irrigate and Mine tiles (maybe just roads), and I built pretty much every building in every city... but it was a lot of fun anyway... and as Megalomaniac said, it was a huge achievement to finish it, even on lowest difficult levels... these days, I am able to win on King difficulty...
But in all honesty, Civ 1 is not that much polished, and it's understandable since it's first in the series.

Originally Posted by gimbal

A problem I have to this day with Civ 5 and 6.

The problem I have with 5 and 6, is non stacking units.
At first, I thought it will be good idea in strategic terms, then I saw the pain when you need to drag 10 units on the screen, and how slow and unintuitive it is.
A very bad idea, imho.
3 is still my favorite (won every difficulty level (even Sid), and 4 is also very good one.
----------------
Back to topic.

K240 and Settlers.
I enjoyed both games very much back in the day, but same as Civ, I didn't know 1/3th of what I know now.