Can this be done?

NLS · 18 January 2008, 11:36

If not, it is possibly a stupid request, except if someone argues that this would enhance the feeling of nostalgia.

So is it possible currently to simulate the "effect" of interlaced display somehow? (talking about window or full screen, on an LCD monitor - this is why I say "simulate")

Hewitson · 18 January 2008, 11:48

Most emulators have a scanlines option which will give you the effect you're after. I'd be surprised if WinUAE doesn't have this feature.

seuden · 18 January 2008, 12:32

WinUAE does have that option, in the display option iirc, I haven't got it installed here so I cant check sorry.

Toni Wilen · 18 January 2008, 12:45

Disable doubling for example. Anyway, it still does not look exactly right because your display device isn't interlaced

NLS · 18 January 2008, 14:58

Only Toni got me.

I wasn't talking about scanlines. I was talking about making those scanlines SIMULATE interlace (notice the choice of word).

Is there any (even tiny) possibility you could add such a thing some time in the future?

If there are filters that simulate TV analog signal, next step would be to simulate interlace (a so well known Amiga "feature").

Graham Humphrey · 18 January 2008, 18:00

Presumably you'll also want the headaches that come from using interlace for that authentic feel

NLS · 18 January 2008, 19:54

yeap

DamienD · 18 January 2008, 21:23

Let's move the thread here as it's not really a prb.WinUAE, more of a req.UAE Wishlist

NLS · 18 January 2008, 21:28

if you say so - although I consider that whole UAE development IS winuae nowadays (or am I wrong)

ps. you might need to move the second post I just made too...

DamienD · 18 January 2008, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLS

if you say so - although I consider that whole UAE development IS winuae nowadays (or am I wrong)

Hmmm, this is really Toni's section as well. Should really be called req.WinUAE Wishlist I guess

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLS

ps. you might need to move the second post I just made too...

You mean this thread: Can I configure second fire button on keyboard?

Nah it's fine there as it's asking for help, not a new feature. I believe it's already possible

NLS · 18 January 2008, 21:37

hey you are fast

ancalimon · 18 January 2008, 21:46

I have an idea about how to do this.

Maybe those emulated scanlines took the upper line and copied the contents to itself, then change the brightness of itself frame by frame, it could be achieved :P

NLS · 18 January 2008, 22:04

each scanline in interlace is different - so a copy wouldn't do anything (except treat x400 or x512 as x200 or x256)

I'd say "vibrate" 50 (or 60?) times per second the brightness of odd and even scanlines. I say alter brightness (not fully blank the scanline) as today LCD monitors are TOO fast in refresh and a black scanline would indeed show as black (and be worse than the effect on TV or old monitors), but a darker (but existing) scanline would also simulate the effect of the phosphor not having the time to go completely black. Maybe this brightness alteration could even be configurable to people's liking (like floppy drive sound emulation).

DamienD · 18 January 2008, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLS

Maybe this brightness alteration could even be configurable to people's liking (like floppy drive sound emulation).

Quote:

WinUAE 1.4.2 (12.05.2007)
====================

- Global brightness, contrast and gamma adjustment.
- "PAL" TV-like filter, with brightness, contrast, gamma, scanline level, blur and noise adjustment.

NLS · 18 January 2008, 22:18

yes, but this doesn't include the "vibration" of this brightness for odd/even scanlines as happened with interlace on CRT monitors...

Thorham · 19 January 2008, 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLS

yes, but this doesn't include the "vibration" of this brightness for odd/even scanlines as happened with interlace on CRT monitors...

For real interlace on crt monitors, it should be as simple as using windows' display drivers. On my peecee with a Rage Agp 2x integrated video chipset (quite old), interlacing is hardware supported, and can be used with win xp! If this is a common feature for gfx chipsets, I see no reason why the WinUae authors can't implement it.

NLS · 19 January 2008, 10:08

Must be me not getting through

I understand how recreating interlace on CRT monitor is possible by creating and using... interlaced resolutions (when VGA cards support it).

I am talking about SIMULATING the effect on CRT. Not the actual effect taking place, but a filter to simulate it by altering the brightness of off/even scanlines.

Thorham · 19 January 2008, 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLS

Must be me not getting through

I understand how recreating interlace on CRT monitor is possible by creating and using... interlaced resolutions (when VGA cards support it).

I am talking about SIMULATING the effect on CRT. Not the actual effect taking place, but a filter to simulate it by altering the brightness of off/even scanlines.

That wouldn't be surprising seeing we have a stupidity forum on this site

Anyway, simulating interlace on a tft monitor should be possible, and easy to implement, too. I don't see why it shouldn't. You've actually posted the method of doing this yourself already! As for crt monitors, it would be nice if a real interlace mode would be implemented as well, and not just a simulation

NLS · 19 January 2008, 15:56

Yes I know the method (analytical thinking is what is left from my programmer side), but I am asking if Toni could (or better "would") implement such a thing.

Thorham · 19 January 2008, 16:15

He should! It would only serve to make WinUae more realistic!

18 January 2008, 11:36	#1
NLS Ancient User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: GREECE Age: 50 Posts: 758	Can this be done? If not, it is possibly a stupid request, except if someone argues that this would enhance the feeling of nostalgia. So is it possible currently to simulate the "effect" of interlaced display somehow? (talking about window or full screen, on an LCD monitor - this is why I say "simulate")

18 January 2008, 11:48	#2
Hewitson Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 41 Posts: 3,773	Most emulators have a scanlines option which will give you the effect you're after. I'd be surprised if WinUAE doesn't have this feature.

18 January 2008, 12:32	#3
seuden uber cool demi god Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kent/England Posts: 2,073	WinUAE does have that option, in the display option iirc, I haven't got it installed here so I cant check sorry.

18 January 2008, 12:45	#4
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,532	Disable doubling for example. Anyway, it still does not look exactly right because your display device isn't interlaced

18 January 2008, 14:58	#5
NLS Ancient User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: GREECE Age: 50 Posts: 758	Only Toni got me. I wasn't talking about scanlines. I was talking about making those scanlines SIMULATE interlace (notice the choice of word). Is there any (even tiny) possibility you could add such a thing some time in the future? If there are filters that simulate TV analog signal, next step would be to simulate interlace (a so well known Amiga "feature").

18 January 2008, 18:00	#6
Graham Humphrey Moderator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Age: 37 Posts: 11,167	Presumably you'll also want the headaches that come from using interlace for that authentic feel

18 January 2008, 19:54	#7
NLS Ancient User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: GREECE Age: 50 Posts: 758	yeap

18 January 2008, 21:23	#8
DamienD Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London / Sydney Age: 47 Posts: 20,420	Let's move the thread here as it's not really a prb.WinUAE, more of a req.UAE Wishlist

18 January 2008, 21:28	#9
NLS Ancient User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: GREECE Age: 50 Posts: 758	if you say so - although I consider that whole UAE development IS winuae nowadays (or am I wrong) ps. you might need to move the second post I just made too...

18 January 2008, 21:37	#11
NLS Ancient User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: GREECE Age: 50 Posts: 758	hey you are fast

18 January 2008, 21:46	#12
ancalimon Supernormal Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Istanbul / Turkey Age: 43 Posts: 1,411	I have an idea about how to do this. Maybe those emulated scanlines took the upper line and copied the contents to itself, then change the brightness of itself frame by frame, it could be achieved :P

18 January 2008, 22:04	#13
NLS Ancient User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: GREECE Age: 50 Posts: 758	each scanline in interlace is different - so a copy wouldn't do anything (except treat x400 or x512 as x200 or x256) I'd say "vibrate" 50 (or 60?) times per second the brightness of odd and even scanlines. I say alter brightness (not fully blank the scanline) as today LCD monitors are TOO fast in refresh and a black scanline would indeed show as black (and be worse than the effect on TV or old monitors), but a darker (but existing) scanline would also simulate the effect of the phosphor not having the time to go completely black. Maybe this brightness alteration could even be configurable to people's liking (like floppy drive sound emulation).

18 January 2008, 22:18	#15
NLS Ancient User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: GREECE Age: 50 Posts: 758	yes, but this doesn't include the "vibration" of this brightness for odd/even scanlines as happened with interlace on CRT monitors...

19 January 2008, 10:08	#17
NLS Ancient User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: GREECE Age: 50 Posts: 758	Must be me not getting through I understand how recreating interlace on CRT monitor is possible by creating and using... interlaced resolutions (when VGA cards support it). I am talking about SIMULATING the effect on CRT. Not the actual effect taking place, but a filter to simulate it by altering the brightness of off/even scanlines.

19 January 2008, 15:56	#19
NLS Ancient User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: GREECE Age: 50 Posts: 758	Yes I know the method (analytical thinking is what is left from my programmer side), but I am asking if Toni could (or better "would") implement such a thing.

19 January 2008, 16:15	#20
Thorham Computer Nerd Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Rotterdam/Netherlands Age: 47 Posts: 3,788	He should! It would only serve to make WinUae more realistic!

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