Help before I start buying for this project...

Grumpygamer · 01 September 2021, 20:16

Hello all, hope everything is going great for you!
Finally nearly there with my Amiga 500
I am at the point I am going to invest some cash for it to be able to run some tracker that supports midi channels.

I'd like to understand what software I need to run and if my a500 will handle it.

Considering I would like to have at least 16 midi tracks on hardware samplers here's me main questions:

1. What is the tracker (and version) I am looking for?
2. What OS does it run on?
3. Can I run it with an ACA500 plus? <- This is what I am considering buying
4. Would it run on a PiStorm?

Looking around it seems Soundstudio is doing 16 channels:
[ Show youtube player ]
but he is running it on an amiga 1200... more money!!!!

Thanks guys! Will post the end product if I ever get there, promise!

Samurai_Crow · 01 September 2021, 23:30

Octamed Soundstudio does not require AGA so an accelerated A500 should be just fine with a recent version of AmigaOS. An ACA500 should handle a MIDI interface ok on it. OMSS has limited MIDI support but should do the job.

Grumpygamer · 02 September 2021, 00:41

Thank you very much for your answer! It helps a lot.
You say Amiga OS, though I think I can only do Workbench with an ACA500 plus, does Workbench qualify as an OS?

What do you mean when you say it has limited support for midi? Is there any docs I can read about these limitations?

Since the cost of the ACA500 plus is around $150 maybe it's worth me getting an A1200 instead, I have 2xA500 I could sell 'em both though it would break my heart a little!

fxgogo · 02 September 2021, 00:54

So workbench along with the kickstart chip on your motherboard is the OS for the Amiga. Do you know if your Amiga 500’s run 1.3 or 2 of the Amiga workbench? The former is the blue and orange colour workbench.

I would start on the A500 with out buying the accelerator just so that you can get use to the software and connection to your samplers. Once you are more familiar, then you can make that decision to get a 1200 or accelerate your 500.

Grumpygamer · 02 September 2021, 01:22

One Amiga is a 500 (KS 1.3) and the other one is a 500 plus (I think KS 2.1? It’s the blue background with the disk)
You have a point, though I don’t have any way to create a disk with Octamed on it right now.

I even bought a cheap old pc to try and make the octamed disk with omniflop, only to find out amiga is not supported! ??

Is it worth trying with Winuae first?

Samurai_Crow · 02 September 2021, 02:42

Octamed Soundstudio 1.03c is on the Aminet.net and a free download. Using WinUAE is a preferred way to set up boot media these days because floppies don't hold enough. There are adapters to use flash memories with some accelerators. WinUAE can also run OctaMED independently of a real Amiga.

RivrRunr · 02 September 2021, 03:52

The ACA500+ will let you boot up any OS you want. It comes with ROM images for 1.2, 1.3 and 3.1 with a complete install for 3.1
Within just a few minutes of getting that, you will be running 3.1 with 1MB Chip RAM and about 6-1/2MB "other mem". Overclock the 7MHz to 28MHz, you won't believe the improvement. And you have an easy way to get your software over, too. But it sounds like both your A500's are running the older OS, even though the 500+ shouldn't be. Maybe palette colors were changed. With ACA500+ you boot whatever you want, doesn't matter what is plugged into the Kickstart ROM socket.

Daedalus · 02 September 2021, 10:36

Workbench will be the colours saved on whatever floppy disk it's booted with, so if both machines were booted with the same 1.x Workbench disk, both will have a blue background regardless of Kickstart version.

I think starting with WinUAE is a very good idea, so you can get a handle on the capabilities and limitations of such a setup. The software and files can later be transferred to a real Amiga if you wish.

fxgogo · 02 September 2021, 12:08

I agree, get up and running on WinUAE. It is a brilliant system to test and explore options. I often use it over my real hardware just because it is so flexible and quick to change things. You can test stock and accelerated Amigas to see if it will make a difference.

There is a lot to learn and you don't want to spend money needlessly. Oh, if you have not already, I would pick up a copy of Amiga Forever. That way you have all the kickstart roms and workbench disks to hand.

stevelord · 02 September 2021, 20:45

WinUAE also has Midi support. I know you want a tracker-type solution but OctaMED SoundStudio may need a lot of tweaking to work and might not work well. Older OctaMED versions do 8 channel Midi too and tend to be a bit snappier.

I'd also suggest taking a look at Music-X which combines Midi and Paula, Bars 'n' Pipes and Dr T's KCS. This might come in handy.

Grumpygamer · 03 September 2021, 00:56

WOW everyone, thanks.
I've started having a look at WinUAE and haven't got SoundStudio working yet...
I am stuck with

can't open asl.library v38

It seems it HAS to be installed, which is going to be my next step.

I tried Octamed 4 and that works, but I can't seem to be able to add tracks (I don't know how to do it right now)

When I was in my twenties I used to use Soundtracker and after that Protracker, but I struggle with Cubase-like apps as I don't really understand them.

I will look at that extensive list @stevelord, thanks, I only plan to pilot MIDI however, I don't think I will mix with onboard audio.

redblade · 03 September 2021, 01:04

Kickstart 1.3 = v34,
Kick 2.0 = v37,
Kick 2.1 = v38,
kick 3.0 = v39,
kick 3.1 = v40,

you need to get asl.library from your Workbench2.1 disk (libs: folder) and copy it to the libs: (sys:libs/) folder.

Or try booting WinUAE with Kickstart 3 and Workbench 3

Grumpygamer · 14 September 2021, 18:02

Ok, here's my update (reminder I am trying to emulate an a500+ which is what I am going to use if this all works).

I purchased Amiga forever's plus bundle and got all kickstart roms and a handy hardfile with workbench pre-installed (3.1).
Everything works fine but I don't seem to be able to install Octamed soundstudio.
I am now getting "Unable to open your tool 'sys:C/Installer'

Does anyone have a clue on what to try next?

Samurai_Crow · 14 September 2021, 18:30

The installer was on the original install disks but wasn't installed by itself at install time. There are more recent versions on the Aminet.net archives but if you have install disk images, just find the disk with installer on it and copy it to C: on your boot device.

Grumpygamer · 14 September 2021, 20:13

Holy moly... I don't even know how to copy on the Amiga... what a n00b

Well I just dragged all the content from the disk to the workbench folder... was a bit too quick.
Still same error. I think I need to go back to basics here
If you have any suggestions I'd really appreciate it!

Pixelfill · 14 September 2021, 20:30

it's been a while for me also. but dragging and dropping from the disk will only copy content with icons.

your best approach is probably using the CLI, If memory serves something like

Code:

copy df0:installer TO c:

should do the trick if the correct workbench install floppy is in the internal drive, and your system partition is named sys: you have booted to the system you want to copy the installer to

http://www.mattowen.co.uk/amiga/amig...help/copy.html

Grumpygamer · 14 September 2021, 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pixelfill

it's been a while for me also. but dragging and dropping from the disk will only copy content with icons.

your best approach is probably using the CLI, If memory serves something like

Code:

copy df0:installer TO c:

should do the trick if the correct workbench install floppy is in the internal drive, and your system partition is named sys: you have booted to the system you want to copy the installer to

http://www.mattowen.co.uk/amiga/amig...help/copy.html

Thanks that worked, BUT I have no idea how where to find it to click it as it seems I can't access the workbench... Was it this bad back in the days?

Samurai_Crow · 15 September 2021, 00:00

Loadwb is the command to load the Workbench.

Grumpygamer · 15 September 2021, 15:08

Ok so somehow I managed to launch Octamed studio from the floppies (haven't had the chance to understand how to install it properly).
I used a MIDI loop and it seems to work - though it has some odd behaviors.

Now, provided I can install it I am using the basic configuration (a500+) from Winuae.
Is that a plain Amiga 500+ or is it already buffed up?

Grumpygamer · 17 September 2021, 00:34

Update: finally installed, MOD loaded, can change sampled instruments to MIDI files...
It's all very promising.

I am VERY excited.

There are some odd behaviors though: controlling the instrument volume seems to make it loop? There a few oddities here and there that I am unsure on how to solve, but I guess I can work around them somehow.

Next step is to try multiple instruments (16 tracks) and see if the a500+ can handle them all.

If all goes well I will buy the ACA500+

One thing: I never used the second disk of Octamed Studio? Is that used for something?

01 September 2021, 20:16	#1
Grumpygamer Registered User Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Nottingham Posts: 39	Help before I start buying for this project... Hello all, hope everything is going great for you! Finally nearly there with my Amiga 500 I am at the point I am going to invest some cash for it to be able to run some tracker that supports midi channels. I'd like to understand what software I need to run and if my a500 will handle it. Considering I would like to have at least 16 midi tracks on hardware samplers here's me main questions: 1. What is the tracker (and version) I am looking for? 2. What OS does it run on? 3. Can I run it with an ACA500 plus? <- This is what I am considering buying 4. Would it run on a PiStorm? Looking around it seems Soundstudio is doing 16 channels: [ Show youtube player ] but he is running it on an amiga 1200... more money!!!! Thanks guys! Will post the end product if I ever get there, promise!

14 September 2021, 20:30	#16
Pixelfill Registered User Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Preston Posts: 100	it's been a while for me also. but dragging and dropping from the disk will only copy content with icons. your best approach is probably using the CLI, If memory serves something like Code: copy df0:installer TO c: should do the trick if the correct workbench install floppy is in the internal drive, and your system partition is named sys: you have booted to the system you want to copy the installer to http://www.mattowen.co.uk/amiga/amig...help/copy.html Last edited by Pixelfill; 14 September 2021 at 20:47. Reason: Installer isn't in C on the install disk (for 3.1 anyway)

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01 September 2021, 23:30	#2
Samurai_Crow Total Chaos forever! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Waterville, MN, USA Age: 49 Posts: 2,186	Octamed Soundstudio does not require AGA so an accelerated A500 should be just fine with a recent version of AmigaOS. An ACA500 should handle a MIDI interface ok on it. OMSS has limited MIDI support but should do the job.

02 September 2021, 00:41	#3
Grumpygamer Registered User Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Nottingham Posts: 39	Thank you very much for your answer! It helps a lot. You say Amiga OS, though I think I can only do Workbench with an ACA500 plus, does Workbench qualify as an OS? What do you mean when you say it has limited support for midi? Is there any docs I can read about these limitations? Since the cost of the ACA500 plus is around $150 maybe it's worth me getting an A1200 instead, I have 2xA500 I could sell 'em both though it would break my heart a little!

02 September 2021, 00:54	#4
fxgogo Also known as GarethQ Join Date: May 2019 Location: Twickenham / U.K. Posts: 715	So workbench along with the kickstart chip on your motherboard is the OS for the Amiga. Do you know if your Amiga 500’s run 1.3 or 2 of the Amiga workbench? The former is the blue and orange colour workbench. I would start on the A500 with out buying the accelerator just so that you can get use to the software and connection to your samplers. Once you are more familiar, then you can make that decision to get a 1200 or accelerate your 500.

02 September 2021, 01:22	#5
Grumpygamer Registered User Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Nottingham Posts: 39	One Amiga is a 500 (KS 1.3) and the other one is a 500 plus (I think KS 2.1? It’s the blue background with the disk) You have a point, though I don’t have any way to create a disk with Octamed on it right now. I even bought a cheap old pc to try and make the octamed disk with omniflop, only to find out amiga is not supported! ?? Is it worth trying with Winuae first?

02 September 2021, 02:42	#6
Samurai_Crow Total Chaos forever! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Waterville, MN, USA Age: 49 Posts: 2,186	Octamed Soundstudio 1.03c is on the Aminet.net and a free download. Using WinUAE is a preferred way to set up boot media these days because floppies don't hold enough. There are adapters to use flash memories with some accelerators. WinUAE can also run OctaMED independently of a real Amiga.

02 September 2021, 03:52	#7
RivrRunr Registered User Join Date: May 2021 Location: Alabama, USA Posts: 4	The ACA500+ will let you boot up any OS you want. It comes with ROM images for 1.2, 1.3 and 3.1 with a complete install for 3.1 Within just a few minutes of getting that, you will be running 3.1 with 1MB Chip RAM and about 6-1/2MB "other mem". Overclock the 7MHz to 28MHz, you won't believe the improvement. And you have an easy way to get your software over, too. But it sounds like both your A500's are running the older OS, even though the 500+ shouldn't be. Maybe palette colors were changed. With ACA500+ you boot whatever you want, doesn't matter what is plugged into the Kickstart ROM socket.

02 September 2021, 10:36	#8
Daedalus Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dublin, then Glasgow Posts: 6,334	Workbench will be the colours saved on whatever floppy disk it's booted with, so if both machines were booted with the same 1.x Workbench disk, both will have a blue background regardless of Kickstart version. I think starting with WinUAE is a very good idea, so you can get a handle on the capabilities and limitations of such a setup. The software and files can later be transferred to a real Amiga if you wish.

02 September 2021, 12:08	#9
fxgogo Also known as GarethQ Join Date: May 2019 Location: Twickenham / U.K. Posts: 715	I agree, get up and running on WinUAE. It is a brilliant system to test and explore options. I often use it over my real hardware just because it is so flexible and quick to change things. You can test stock and accelerated Amigas to see if it will make a difference. There is a lot to learn and you don't want to spend money needlessly. Oh, if you have not already, I would pick up a copy of Amiga Forever. That way you have all the kickstart roms and workbench disks to hand.

02 September 2021, 20:45	#10
stevelord Registered User Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: UK Posts: 540	WinUAE also has Midi support. I know you want a tracker-type solution but OctaMED SoundStudio may need a lot of tweaking to work and might not work well. Older OctaMED versions do 8 channel Midi too and tend to be a bit snappier. I'd also suggest taking a look at Music-X which combines Midi and Paula, Bars 'n' Pipes and Dr T's KCS. This might come in handy.

03 September 2021, 00:56	#11
Grumpygamer Registered User Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Nottingham Posts: 39	WOW everyone, thanks. I've started having a look at WinUAE and haven't got SoundStudio working yet... I am stuck with can't open asl.library v38 It seems it HAS to be installed, which is going to be my next step. I tried Octamed 4 and that works, but I can't seem to be able to add tracks (I don't know how to do it right now) When I was in my twenties I used to use Soundtracker and after that Protracker, but I struggle with Cubase-like apps as I don't really understand them. I will look at that extensive list @stevelord, thanks, I only plan to pilot MIDI however, I don't think I will mix with onboard audio.

03 September 2021, 01:04	#12
redblade Zone Friend Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Middle Earth Age: 40 Posts: 2,127	Kickstart 1.3 = v34, Kick 2.0 = v37, Kick 2.1 = v38, kick 3.0 = v39, kick 3.1 = v40, you need to get asl.library from your Workbench2.1 disk (libs: folder) and copy it to the libs: (sys:libs/) folder. Or try booting WinUAE with Kickstart 3 and Workbench 3

14 September 2021, 18:02	#13
Grumpygamer Registered User Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Nottingham Posts: 39	Ok, here's my update (reminder I am trying to emulate an a500+ which is what I am going to use if this all works). I purchased Amiga forever's plus bundle and got all kickstart roms and a handy hardfile with workbench pre-installed (3.1). Everything works fine but I don't seem to be able to install Octamed soundstudio. I am now getting "Unable to open your tool 'sys:C/Installer' Does anyone have a clue on what to try next?

14 September 2021, 18:30	#14
Samurai_Crow Total Chaos forever! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Waterville, MN, USA Age: 49 Posts: 2,186	The installer was on the original install disks but wasn't installed by itself at install time. There are more recent versions on the Aminet.net archives but if you have install disk images, just find the disk with installer on it and copy it to C: on your boot device.

14 September 2021, 20:13	#15
Grumpygamer Registered User Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Nottingham Posts: 39	Holy moly... I don't even know how to copy on the Amiga... what a n00b Well I just dragged all the content from the disk to the workbench folder... was a bit too quick. Still same error. I think I need to go back to basics here If you have any suggestions I'd really appreciate it!

15 September 2021, 00:00	#18
Samurai_Crow Total Chaos forever! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Waterville, MN, USA Age: 49 Posts: 2,186	Loadwb is the command to load the Workbench.

15 September 2021, 15:08	#19
Grumpygamer Registered User Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Nottingham Posts: 39	Ok so somehow I managed to launch Octamed studio from the floppies (haven't had the chance to understand how to install it properly). I used a MIDI loop and it seems to work - though it has some odd behaviors. Now, provided I can install it I am using the basic configuration (a500+) from Winuae. Is that a plain Amiga 500+ or is it already buffed up?

17 September 2021, 00:34	#20
Grumpygamer Registered User Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Nottingham Posts: 39	Update: finally installed, MOD loaded, can change sampled instruments to MIDI files... It's all very promising. I am VERY excited. There are some odd behaviors though: controlling the instrument volume seems to make it loop? There a few oddities here and there that I am unsure on how to solve, but I guess I can work around them somehow. Next step is to try multiple instruments (16 tracks) and see if the a500+ can handle them all. If all goes well I will buy the ACA500+ One thing: I never used the second disk of Octamed Studio? Is that used for something?

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