CD+G setup?

flibble42 · 17 August 2010, 03:59

I have managed to play a CD+G disk once (With CDTV or maybe CD32) but cannot duplicate the setup.. When i switch to CD+G mode the screen goes black. Does anyone have any idea what the settings should be.. ie CD access mode, hardware etc.. thanks in advance

Toni Wilen · 17 August 2010, 08:10

CD32 CD+G: red button should return back to player screen. Black screen usually is CD32/CDTV CD+G bug, subchannel data is not read early enough, first few frames are lost. Blank screen also means CD+G subchannel data is working (at least partially)

(and as usual, check the logs)

Depending on CD+G CD, only some parts of CD+G graphics will be missing and it continues normally, sometimes it stays blank until next "clear screen" command comes. Keep waiting

CDTV CD+G might work better because it uses CD+G specific way for play start command (it is possible to fudge the starting position)

Same thing happens on my real CD32 and CDTV. I have 3 CD+G test images and only one works 100% correctly (all tracks), other 2 have missing graphics or blank screen at start.

flibble42 · 18 August 2010, 05:34

I let the disk play to track 2 and the CD+G kicked in.. Is it possible to fix this while being true to the hardware?

Toni Wilen · 18 August 2010, 20:19

I added play start position adjustment that tries to find correct starting position by looking for P subchannel (Index) and then finding first non-zero RW subchannel data. It does nothing if disk has no RW subchannel data (afaik no CD32 game ever used RW subchannels so this should be safe to do without causing possible CDA/video sync issues)

My badly working test CD+G now works perfectly. (Lou Reed - New York, both CD and image. This didn't work very well on my real CD32 either..)

Both image mounter and real CD supported, CD32 and CDTV.

http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae.zip Please confirm.

flibble42 · 19 August 2010, 03:20

No change on my system, First track played is black screen, so i could play track 2 first and it is black, if i then select track 1 the graphics appear (Are available).. You know better than i do, but it seems like the CD+G element isn't being recognised, the CD+G button does not appear on the control panel (CD32) until i have done the above. This is the case on a real disk and Alcohol 120 mounted image. I hope this is atleast a little helpful and thanks for all your hard work.. Flibble

Toni Wilen · 19 August 2010, 08:02

Ah, this is not same problem, I thought you meant some tracks (not just first) don't work unless playback was started from previous track.

Could you attach or email subchannel file? (clonecd image, only .sub file needed) If it is too big, simply keep first 1M or so, the rest is not needed

EDIT: include .ccd too. (only the big main data file is not needed, it "only" contains audio)

flibble42 · 20 August 2010, 03:12

This image does work on a standalone DVD player. Here you go, hope this is of some use.

Toni Wilen · 20 August 2010, 15:48

Thanks. Unfortunately it seems to be CD+G software bug in CD32 ROM. CD+G subchannel data is read correctly but nothing can be seen, perhaps default colors are wrong or it ignores some kind of "reset" command.

It works fine in CDTV mode(!)

flibble42 · 21 August 2010, 10:24

I have even less luck with CDTV emulation, just get a flashing play/pause button. Never mind Toni, i'm sure you have more important things to worry about. Thanks for your time.

Toni Wilen · 21 August 2010, 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by flibble42

I have even less luck with CDTV emulation, just get a flashing play/pause button. Never mind Toni, i'm sure you have more important things to worry about. Thanks for your time.

Thats unfortunately how CDTV works.

From this point on ONLY CDTV front panel buttons are accepted... By default they are mapped to "multimedia" buttons if you have keyboard that have play/stop/etc buttons.

flibble42 · 23 August 2010, 05:25

When you say front panel i assume you mean the buttons on the main unit, does the IR controller not work? Having never owned a CDTV only a CD32 i googled the controller, it is indeed a totally different beast to the CD32. Would it not be possible to have some sort of overlay showing the controller which you can then click with the mouse, sort of like the virtual keyboards on iphones and ipads? It's just a thought. I think i know what your response will be

.

flibble42 · 23 August 2010, 07:34

Also found this interesting..

http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/wb_cdtv.html

Toni Wilen · 23 August 2010, 08:30

Yes, ONLY CDTV front panel buttons work in this mode. Remote pad does nothing, keyboard does nothing.

Front panel buttons:

Play = start playback, show CD+G if available.
Stop = stop and return back to CDA player screen
and finally next/previous track buttons.

Front panel buttons directly control the CD mechanism, software only needs to check status code. I am quite sure it was done this way because CD+G subchannel data requires polling (no DMA) and full software CD+G decoding is quite CPU heavy. (CD32 on the other hand has DMA subchannel, much faster CPU and more memory bandwidth etc..)

I am not going to add some onscreen keys just for CD+G that no one needs or uses. (Input remapping isn't that difficult or complex anymore)

flibble42 · 24 August 2010, 07:03

I went into the Game Ports menu and can't see an obvious way of mapping the buttons needed. Am i in the wrong menu? Do i need to do a manual edit of the config file? Sorry to keep bothering you..

Toni Wilen · 24 August 2010, 10:57

Open Input panel. Click "Remap", press key you want to remap, select "CDTV Front Panel Play" (or "CDTV Play", this is remote pad Play key but it automatically works as a frontpanel button when frontpanel mode is enabled)

Do the same for Stop and other keys if needed.

flibble42 · 25 August 2010, 03:15

Thanks Toni

rhester72 · 25 August 2010, 16:13

Any chance we can toggle the WinUAE behavior between "perfect" CD+G and "authentic" (bugs and all)? Having WinUAE as a near-100% reference platform to the actual behavior of the hardware (warts and all) is one of its biggest strengths.

Rodney

Toni Wilen · 25 August 2010, 16:39

It was never accurate, no one knows how well or badly CDTV and CD32 laser head positioning works in CDA mode (both have custom firmware) and I am not sure if CD+G non-accuracy is something that is really needed

Problem is more or less simple, CD+G data that start 1s or later from start of track: working 100%, earlier: some data gets missed.

flibble42 · 26 August 2010, 04:21

I have done a bit more testing after the front panel issue. I used the same Grease Karaoke disk and config settings. In CDTV mode the disk starts as it should but the graphics show some corruption, the same disk in CD32 mode (despite the bug) and no corruption.

Flibble

Toni Wilen · 01 September 2010, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by flibble42

I have done a bit more testing after the front panel issue. I used the same Grease Karaoke disk and config settings. In CDTV mode the disk starts as it should but the graphics show some corruption, the same disk in CD32 mode (despite the bug) and no corruption.

Flibble

Same problem if you use CD image? Also make sure you use CDTV quickstart, CDTV CD+G it is much more timing critical than CD32.

17 August 2010, 03:59	#1
flibble42 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: UK Age: 51 Posts: 282	CD+G setup? I have managed to play a CD+G disk once (With CDTV or maybe CD32) but cannot duplicate the setup.. When i switch to CD+G mode the screen goes black. Does anyone have any idea what the settings should be.. ie CD access mode, hardware etc.. thanks in advance Last edited by flibble42; 17 August 2010 at 05:18.

19 August 2010, 08:02	#6
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,515	Ah, this is not same problem, I thought you meant some tracks (not just first) don't work unless playback was started from previous track. Could you attach or email subchannel file? (clonecd image, only .sub file needed) If it is too big, simply keep first 1M or so, the rest is not needed EDIT: include .ccd too. (only the big main data file is not needed, it "only" contains audio) Last edited by Toni Wilen; 19 August 2010 at 09:15.

20 August 2010, 03:12	#7
flibble42 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: UK Age: 51 Posts: 282	This image does work on a standalone DVD player. Here you go, hope this is of some use. Last edited by flibble42; 02 April 2022 at 20:44.

23 August 2010, 05:25	#11
flibble42 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: UK Age: 51 Posts: 282	When you say front panel i assume you mean the buttons on the main unit, does the IR controller not work? Having never owned a CDTV only a CD32 i googled the controller, it is indeed a totally different beast to the CD32. Would it not be possible to have some sort of overlay showing the controller which you can then click with the mouse, sort of like the virtual keyboards on iphones and ipads? It's just a thought. I think i know what your response will be . Last edited by flibble42; 23 August 2010 at 05:31.

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17 August 2010, 08:10	#2
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,515	CD32 CD+G: red button should return back to player screen. Black screen usually is CD32/CDTV CD+G bug, subchannel data is not read early enough, first few frames are lost. Blank screen also means CD+G subchannel data is working (at least partially) (and as usual, check the logs) Depending on CD+G CD, only some parts of CD+G graphics will be missing and it continues normally, sometimes it stays blank until next "clear screen" command comes. Keep waiting CDTV CD+G might work better because it uses CD+G specific way for play start command (it is possible to fudge the starting position) Same thing happens on my real CD32 and CDTV. I have 3 CD+G test images and only one works 100% correctly (all tracks), other 2 have missing graphics or blank screen at start.

18 August 2010, 05:34	#3
flibble42 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: UK Age: 51 Posts: 282	I let the disk play to track 2 and the CD+G kicked in.. Is it possible to fix this while being true to the hardware?

18 August 2010, 20:19	#4
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,515	I added play start position adjustment that tries to find correct starting position by looking for P subchannel (Index) and then finding first non-zero RW subchannel data. It does nothing if disk has no RW subchannel data (afaik no CD32 game ever used RW subchannels so this should be safe to do without causing possible CDA/video sync issues) My badly working test CD+G now works perfectly. (Lou Reed - New York, both CD and image. This didn't work very well on my real CD32 either..) Both image mounter and real CD supported, CD32 and CDTV. http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae.zip Please confirm.

19 August 2010, 03:20	#5
flibble42 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: UK Age: 51 Posts: 282	No change on my system, First track played is black screen, so i could play track 2 first and it is black, if i then select track 1 the graphics appear (Are available).. You know better than i do, but it seems like the CD+G element isn't being recognised, the CD+G button does not appear on the control panel (CD32) until i have done the above. This is the case on a real disk and Alcohol 120 mounted image. I hope this is atleast a little helpful and thanks for all your hard work.. Flibble

20 August 2010, 15:48	#8
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,515	Thanks. Unfortunately it seems to be CD+G software bug in CD32 ROM. CD+G subchannel data is read correctly but nothing can be seen, perhaps default colors are wrong or it ignores some kind of "reset" command. It works fine in CDTV mode(!)

21 August 2010, 10:24	#9
flibble42 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: UK Age: 51 Posts: 282	I have even less luck with CDTV emulation, just get a flashing play/pause button. Never mind Toni, i'm sure you have more important things to worry about. Thanks for your time.

23 August 2010, 07:34	#12
flibble42 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: UK Age: 51 Posts: 282	Also found this interesting.. http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/wb_cdtv.html

23 August 2010, 08:30	#13
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,515	Yes, ONLY CDTV front panel buttons work in this mode. Remote pad does nothing, keyboard does nothing. Front panel buttons: Play = start playback, show CD+G if available. Stop = stop and return back to CDA player screen and finally next/previous track buttons. Front panel buttons directly control the CD mechanism, software only needs to check status code. I am quite sure it was done this way because CD+G subchannel data requires polling (no DMA) and full software CD+G decoding is quite CPU heavy. (CD32 on the other hand has DMA subchannel, much faster CPU and more memory bandwidth etc..) I am not going to add some onscreen keys just for CD+G that no one needs or uses. (Input remapping isn't that difficult or complex anymore)

24 August 2010, 07:03	#14
flibble42 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: UK Age: 51 Posts: 282	I went into the Game Ports menu and can't see an obvious way of mapping the buttons needed. Am i in the wrong menu? Do i need to do a manual edit of the config file? Sorry to keep bothering you..

24 August 2010, 10:57	#15
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,515	Open Input panel. Click "Remap", press key you want to remap, select "CDTV Front Panel Play" (or "CDTV Play", this is remote pad Play key but it automatically works as a frontpanel button when frontpanel mode is enabled) Do the same for Stop and other keys if needed.

25 August 2010, 03:15	#16
flibble42 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: UK Age: 51 Posts: 282	Thanks Toni

25 August 2010, 16:13	#17
rhester72 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: New York / USA Posts: 360	Any chance we can toggle the WinUAE behavior between "perfect" CD+G and "authentic" (bugs and all)? Having WinUAE as a near-100% reference platform to the actual behavior of the hardware (warts and all) is one of its biggest strengths. Rodney

25 August 2010, 16:39	#18
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,515	It was never accurate, no one knows how well or badly CDTV and CD32 laser head positioning works in CDA mode (both have custom firmware) and I am not sure if CD+G non-accuracy is something that is really needed Problem is more or less simple, CD+G data that start 1s or later from start of track: working 100%, earlier: some data gets missed.

26 August 2010, 04:21	#19
flibble42 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: UK Age: 51 Posts: 282	I have done a bit more testing after the front panel issue. I used the same Grease Karaoke disk and config settings. In CDTV mode the disk starts as it should but the graphics show some corruption, the same disk in CD32 mode (despite the bug) and no corruption. Flibble

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