BiHawk the new emulation king?

[Ian]

During the past week, I've come to the conslusion that many old systems I like to use just aren't getting any love now, they kinda peaked years ago, such as Megadrive, where the scene has seen nowt since Kega pretty mcuh perfected the emulation.

SNES also seems to be done with, You were either a ZSNES of SNES9X guy back in the day, both these basically dead with little inovation carrying on in the various forks.

So with a massive sense of disappointment in Kega only offering 3x the resoltion and not fitting fully screen display to match my panel, but rather change the resolution to match the 3x output, incandescent with rage, I sought out some alternatives.

Oh my, slim pickings....

Bizhawk it was then, extracted, hmm, fuck this, looks complicated. OK, lets try retroarch, this has achievment support and shit, I'm a sucker for someone telling me the pointless shit I just did is important. Sign me up....

Initially, this went well, scanned my "no-intro" folder, noticed it as found several games, so I tried a few classics from my youth. First up H.E.R.O on the 2600.

Dropped a bomb, achievment. I can get into this, a few levels later realised how repetative it was and moved on, and over senstive controlers we have these days really didn't help this game.

Tried a few games at random. Rom not supported... FFS.

Ah, ST games, let me try an old automation menu (to be honest I couldn't be bothered to scroll through the thousands of disks using the slow ass file selector to get to the ones I used to like like Pompey Pirates and Flame of Finland).... Firmware not found...... FFS!!!

Get the required firmware, named it as expected acording to the retro arch wiki. No dice. WTF. downloaded an entire firmware pack for the latest version from the internet archive, put it in the Bios folder, where this should logically be, and also in the system folder where the wiki said. FIRMWARE NOT FOUND!!!!

Back to Biz hawk, took the time to set it all up, so much better and by the looks of it you can also add cores from retro arch too. Firmware scanner so you know if you have the correct files in the correct place, hmm, this is going well. Randomly download a shader repository that I guess was compiled by our very own guest.r, picked one at random xbrx6 (mistake), remembered that it kills performance and tried the more realistic x3, and were in business.

Everything just works, and after the initial setup, it's so easy to use.

M.E.S.S. was obviously first on the scene, and it's awful, but does this new breed of multi-system emulator signal a change? I this now the only way we will get something more suited to modern technology? (Please ignore Toni, this does not include you )

What are your thoughts on this new style of emulator, have you tried them, have I convinced you to give them a go?

Let me know, hopefully some of you have already used it and can give me some advice on which cores are the best to use.

[Anubis]

Not sure what you are talking about...

RetroArch + LaunchBox here all the way. Easy to setup, update, large amount of frequently updated cores... multiple host systems supported including Rpi, NVidia Shield, Droid, Windowz, Linux... (RetroArch, LaunchBox is only Windows, Android and original DOS. )

Here are some screenshots...




Here is current version on my gaming PC...



Hardest to setup was of course Amiga and for this purpose I am using FS-UAE + WHDLoad, SPS or ADF. It is the same way to set it up, and I find TotalCommander or MultiCommander as essential in separating games once FS-UAE initial files were created (all in folder, all 16K of them ) Once set correctly, all you have to do is move folders in place where you setup Amiga version you like to emulate to be scanned, scan folder with LaunchBox and whole, loads images, starts game by clicking image and provides tons of unneeded info.

I modified installation from this video to accomplish this...

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[RuySan]

FS-UAE by it self is already very pleasant looking and has all the screenshots and box art. And also supports shaders. What's the deal with joining it with launchbox? It's a bit prettier?

[Anubis]

FS-UAE has somwaht OK GUI, but this way I have all emulation start through the same GUI, all games are showing box art, and it was easy to setup many different emulators, so for example for SNES I can use any of SNES cores from retroarch (both 32 and 64 bit setup on my system), or any other emulators you wish to setup.

Reason I use a lot of RetroArch is simple, same interface across platforms, settings can be applied per platform, core or per game, so if you have a stinker that requires something special, you can set it up. Option to save state on exit made a lot of loading times be minimal...

Ian probably remembers form Total-Emu times that I love to experiment with emulators and I am sure that I emulated every system I heard of, so I still keep many different emulators, but more for poking around and trying something new.

LB tho is my place where I go when I like to play any of those games, like in recent weeks, RGL games.

So instead of using MAME, I have MAME core in RetroArch and LaunchBox is my front end. I do have MAME emulator (one wihtout GUI) as well setup. You can start any of the games with any emulator you setup for that system. You can have some games use one emulator, while other you can setup different emulators, based on your preference. There is ton of tutorials how to setup each system.

LaunchBox started as DOSBox front end, but since that time, you can use it with any other emulator, DOSBox and ScummVM are built in (but I have replaced built in with different release of DOSBox) and you can import Steam, Epic, GOG and Origin games as well. Definitely worth a look.

If you want to license it (I don't remember what features are not enabled for unlicensed version), wait for black Friday and for 20 bucks you get life update license. Definitely best spent 20 bucks for emulation for me.

For those who have spare laptop that they don't need - may I recommend batocera. I might update video with setup I did on an old laptop that we originally got for 200 bucks 5-6 years ago.

[SquawkBox]

Or get a RetroN 5, it outputs nicely over HDMI at 720p. I guess it's still worth picking up in 2020, along with a pair of original controllers. At least, that was the case in 2019, says this guy :


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[Anubis]

That is an ugly controller.

I use xbox one controllers with NVidia Shield and that works great.

Also on computer I now use exclusively xBox controller, seems to work best. I tried many different controller, including PS3/PS4 and Steam controllers. It is better even then NVidia shield controller because of placement of start/select buttons. (For some strange reason they placed them next to each other on shield controller, trying to get coins in mame end us getting out of program quite often )

[Retro-Nerd]

Nah, i don't like those Android boxes. Android emulators tends to have too much input lag anyway.

I'd tried BizHawk maybe 1,5 years ago. Wasn't my cup to tea. I still prefer Retroarch for the most classic consoles/handhelds (with Launchbox as frontend). For computers and Next Gen consoles i mostly use Windows standalone emulators.

[Sgt Jack V]

The only thing I use BizHawk for is TG16/PCE emulation

[SquawkBox]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Nah, i don't like those Android boxes.

Since the OP most likely won't be using the actual hardware, and taking into account Analogue products come with a hefty price, It's a matter of "decent enough" emulation, along with competent scaling capabilities. I'd say the RetroN is up the task. Sure, default controller and shell design is as enticing as Ernest Borgnine in a tutu, but if plug and play (in the literal sense) is your thing, it shouldn't matter too much.

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Android emulators tends to have too much input lag.

Try any NES or SNES emulator on your Android enabled smartphone (e.q. Super 8 Plus), no input delay at all. That bearded ginger from the YT video didn't notice any input delay on his RetroN provided one uses wired original controller. Most likely, the type of LCD TV in use goes for 80% of alleged input delay (needless to say, wireless controllers ought to make things worse). Trust old Squawkbox, community support is still strong, save features are convenient, it's the best bang for your buck in that price range IMHO. Surely, you have noticed YT regulars made it clear mini-consoles could easily be hacked to load roms from other consoles. Similarly, since the RetroN bears a SD slot, with a little effort involved, one can fill it with roms from all of the main 8-bit and 16-bit systems, including ones bearing unofficial translations, even a few of these "SNES or Mega Drive games that never went" (not all of them).
Last but not least, RetroN will soothe the spirit of those who are adamant to use roms dumped from their own original cartridges instead of the ones grabbed from the interwebs. Probably amounts to less than 10% of the user base, but still a nice gesture in terms of preservation. Slot insert is a bit stiff apparently, but there are workarounds (using some special grease or something).
Here is a nice FAQ to get things started :
https://www.reddit.com/r/retron5/com...urvival_guide/

[Retro-Nerd]

Of course those boxes with android emulators have a lot of input lag. Most of the emulators have them. And i've actually tested this RetroN thing ages ago, a friend of my needs to have all the crappy emulator gadgets. This bearded guy has actually no clue what he's talking about. I suggest you to watch the "My life in gaming", "RetroRGB" or "GameSack" channels. Those guys have a lot of knowledge about retro-gaming and the tech around it.

RetroArch, or e.g. the actual bsnes standalone version, eliminates the lag in emulators via RunAhead technics (Google it). This and Beam Racing (try WinUAE with it!!!!) is the holy grail for emulation. Apart from that: I highly prefer the much better CRT filters in RetroArch (and some other emulators). Sound emulation isn't good enough in RN5 too.

RetroN5 is maybe good enough for the average game nostalgia fan, but really not if you want a serious emulation.

[SquawkBox]

Time to sell all of your retro gear then, so that you could devote all of your time using these emulators fitted with such "advanced features" . On a more serious note, I have watched my share of YT videos from these guys you're mentioning, my sentiment is that too much technical data sometimes spoils the fun. Surely, I know now what 240p is and why it's so important, but what is at stake here is outputting over some living room LCD TV through HDMI, if I am not mistaken, so, so long for low res goodness. This guy with the high pitched voice knows his stuff admittedly, but he is responsible for selling the OSSC (one of the OSSC's, since that stuff is open source, anyone can come up with one), so it's something to have in mind if you expect unbiased advice from him. I am willing to keep contributing in this thread, as long as it pertains to the OP attempting to emulate those systems he mentioned (SNES, VCS 2600, possibly other consoles, let's not attempt to cover up the Amiga emulation here to avoid losing focus, if you don't mind).

My personal take on "state of the art" of various emulators is of limited value. Yeah, I didn't know about Run Ahead and similar enhancements so thanks for that but what I know (from years and years of delving into that stuff, trial and error, in all modesty), I know fore sure. In retrospect (so to speak), after giving it some thought, it amm started to make sense (what should be emulated, what should be played from the real thing, or bits of both), so I am not looking backwards. Suffice to say I am more inclined towards actual hardware than before, though atm I am (still) reluctant to spend big bucks on a beefed-up Amiga, accelerator card card and such. Long story short, I just got myself a very good looking rev. 6a Amiga 500 with 1 MB chip ram fitted with a Gotek, I will post pics, just be patient . Hopefully, it should display nicely on the Mistubishi CRT, I'll see if I can manage without a scandoubler. FYI, I mostly emulate 8-bit and 16-bit systems on the PS2 and the Gamecube. SNES, PC engine and Mega Drive games look simply stunning powered by the Gamecube on the CRT TV at native resolution (I play with Mega Drive pad imitation through an adapter from Raph Net).

Why should I bother with retroarch ? The way I see it, retroarch is kind of well-made follow up to MESS (we all agree that multi-emulator Swiss tool was ill conceived), well-made but not canon by any means (6th gen consoles don't receive retroarch updates anymore for certain systems, whereas emulation of these systems is perfectly doable). Final Burn Alpha, on the other hand, seems the right thing to do if you happen to own a PS3 with custom firmware (well, it got its name changed due to some issues with one of the co-founders), check it here (having in mind the PS3 is not capable of outputting 240p).

So back to RetroN 5, I don't believe you shall experience any input lag or garbled audio if you follow that guide I linked earlier on. For one, put aside the HDMI cable and the controller, probably reason these were included is that Hyperkin had to save on costs. Also, the RetroN received a upgrade a few years ago. Next time you pay a visit to your friend, May I suggest to a) check if it's the new version, b) try to plug it on another display (e.q. a smaller LCD TV, a computer screen) c) make sure you use a sturdy wired controller, not just some Chinese knock off. In hindsight, I'd rather be pushing the envelope for the Retro Freak but unfortunately, that sleek Android based box isn't available anymore (solely if you are willing to import it from Japan).

[Retro-Nerd]

Nah, just bought an OSSC for my modern TV/monitor. (and still use my CRT TV too most of the time, lol). I don't intend to sell my retro machines. Emulation is great, but from time to time i need the real thing.

Last post about the RetroN5: It was a flawed device right from the beginning. Hyperkin is know for crappy quality anyway. The emulators may satisfy the "normal" guys, but surely not me. And the build quality of the RetroN5 is awful. The real cartrides are sitting way too tight in the slot. It's very annoying to remove them later, they are literally stuck.

So back to RetroN 5, I don't believe you will experience any input lag or garbled audio if you follow that guide I linked earlier on.

Yes, you will. But i guess most people will never notice that, because they sold their real hardware ages ago. This android devices alone usually have 3-4 frames lag, the external stuff like monitors or pads not included.

[Anubis]

Over 2 years ago RetroArch introduced RALR - Lag can be adjusted on all RetroArch cores. It is now actually better then some of original consoles that emulates.

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You can set it up on NVidia Shield for a while now.

[Retro-Nerd]

Yes, but this wouldn't help this Hyperkin shit. You need a bit CPU horsepower, the nVidia Shield should be fast enough for Runahead.

Lag can be adjusted on all RetroArch cores

On the most prominent cores. There are still a lot of cores without RunAhead support though. This option requires a proper Save State implementation.

[Valken]

I like the IDEA of a multi-system emulator but RetroArch setup bites a big one. I spent so much time on it and feels way freaking slow. The timing between menu moves via KB or joypad just made it unbearable to me. Plus the scanning...

MAME puts it to shame doing MAME roms.

I prefer it if there was a Multisystem emulator where each "system" was curated like Damien's collection and with a FAST, light and snappy GUI. Just load and run it.

I now have a few friends who are coders... maybe I could ask if they would be interested...

[Retro-Nerd]

Are people really using RetroArch as a GUI for loading games? I mean, there is e.g. the great Launchbox. Set it up with RetroArch as emulator and your have a nice "Double Click, starting game" frontend. Everthing else works fine with configured hotkeys for the emulator options.

[Anubis]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Yes, but this wouldn't help this Hyperkin shit. You need a bit CPU horsepower, the nVidia Shield should be fast enough for Runahead.

Hyperkin looks bad and has bad controller IMHO. nVidia Shield is in my opinion way to go, specially if used with xBox One controller.

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

On the most prominent cores. There are still a lot of cores without RunAhead support though. This option requires a proper Save State implementation.

My bad. I thought that they implemented them all by now.

As for people using RetroArch GUI - you are doing it wrong. Use LaunchBox as frontend for all emulators, including RetroArch.

Free license should work fine, but if you want to spend money to get it licensed, wait until Black Friday, because last 3 years they offered life license for 20 bucks.

Strange thing is that it really life license was 25 on sale, but if you get just regular license (10 bucks) and upgreade (another 10) you get it for 20 instead for 25. (normal price is 50)

Even I have it for years, I never use Big Box which used to be Premium only feature.Not sure what else is blocked today.

[Retroplay]

Nah, I usually make a shortcut for the games I tend to play the most and add that to my start menu.

F:\Emulators\Multi\RetroArch\retroarch.exe -L cores\mednafen_psx_libretro.dll "e:\MAME\Software\psx\ridgerac\Ridge Racer (USA).chd"

Same with PS2

"F:\Emulators\Sony PlayStation2\PCSX2\pcsx2.exe" "F:\PS2\Okami (USA).iso" --cfgpath="F:\PS2\configs\Okami" --nogui

Simple, clean and just dandy.

[Anubis]

Nothing clean with too many icons on desktop...

[SquawkBox]

Originally Posted by Anubis

Hyperkin looks bad and has bad controller IMHO. nVidia Shield is in my opinion way to go, specially if used with xBox One controller.

I mentioned the bad looks of it already, same concerning the stiffness of some of the cartridge ports. This said, it doesn't deter from the experience if all you want to do is sit back and play downloaded roms on the TV, with the PC set to rest. In other words, all this talk about Retroarch premises is compelling but I am not convinced the OP can be arsed to set up Retroarch / launchbox just to be playing SNES and VCS 2600 games (please notice he hasn't mentioned MAME games, at least not yet).
Assuredly, it's been a while since you didn't play many old school games in a row Anubis. xBox One controller may be up the task for certain games (e.q. racing), but for many others, you'd be better off with a Saturn or Mega Drive pad in hand (deadly platformers which require pixel precision a la Manic Miner, top down maze games a la Gauntlet, versus fighting games with low / medium / high kick punch, so on so forth). The RetroN 5 with all its alleged or proven faults allows that out of the box, without any recourse to one of these clever but expensive adapter, and more.