If you could design a Modern Amiga....

[sandruzzo]

..what would be your entry levels' Hardware configuration, OS, Price Target? Would be worth bring new Amiga into the light?

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

..what would be your entry levels' Hardware configuration, OS, Price Target? Would be worth bring new Amiga into the light?

Amiga OS 4x ported to Raspberry Pi and use whatever is the latest version of Raspberry..

[grond]

It would have a multicore-080 class 68k processor running at some GHz (and including an MMU as well as a low-power 7 MHz 68000 similar to the asymmetric multi-core ARM processors in many smartphones and tablet computers), 4 GB RAM, digital video with an overlay of a classic Amiga video subsystem and a more modern protected video subsystem, and an OS that runs one exec process and legacy Amiga software within one context (no memory protection among tasks in this context) and new software in a memory-protected individual context. The OS would come with all necessary components for modern computer usage and a development environment for creating new software. Since I would have to be somebody like Jeff Bezos to make any of this possible, I would give several thousand units away to developers for free. If I'm going to sink a billion into this, why charge a few hundred bucks for the dev machines?

[Arne]

I often think about this. I suppose an Amiga would be mostly the OS if using modern hardware. It would be neat if modern Commodore GPUs had kept legacy video modes with palettes, bobs and all that fun stuff, but at light speed. PC DOS/BIOS stuff is dreadful.

As for how things are now, I think I'd go for some sort of buffed OCS system to keep it simple, but possibly with extra sprites, hardware flat filled polygons (a "geometry engine"). Unsure about chunky mode. I'd keep 12 bit colours. Maybe a 68SEC000 @ 20MHz (the last 68K, barely in production afaik), a modernised/responsive WB in 1.3 style 16 colours square pixels, shift register joystick port (to support much needed extra buttons), scroll wheel mouse (I keep trying to scroll in WB/AMOS! ... It would also need to be serial because of the extra quadratures). Keyboard case and internal floppy drive or bust! I was sketching on a (very) compact budget model the other day, but I with a SoC ASIC & FDD & no economy of scale it's pretty much impossible to make, so not exactly budget...

Image: http://androidarts.com/Amiga/770s21.jpg

...from: http://androidarts.com/Amiga/Alembic.htm#A2021

[Romanujan]

It would be something like:
- 150-200 MHZ 68060 (with compatibility improvements and FPU + MMU), no additional instructions
- 1 or 2 MB flash for the Kickstart ROM
- AGA chipset with extended Chip RAM (at least 4 MB - but definitely no "Z3 Chip")
- 64 MB Fast RAM
- RTC
- Picasso96 compatible graphics card
- AHI compatible sound card
- 2x SATA ports
- GOTEK-like FDD emulation, SDHC cards as medium for storing images
- ports for USB mouse and keyboard
- 2x D-Sub joystick connectors
- ITX case
- HDMI audio/video output
- Ethernet 100 Mbps
- integrated WiFi

Extended version would have:
- 512 MB Fast RAM
- 4x SATA ports
- RISC-V secondary processor, with own RAM - for JPG/PNG/WPG/MP3/OGG/FLAC datatypes, MHI, mpeg.device, mpega.library
- Warp3D compatible 3D support, twice the Voodoo 3 performance
- 4x Poseidon compatible USB type C ports
- COM port
- SPDIF audio output
- analog audio input/output
- MIDI ports

Optional extras:
- dedicated mouse (with wheel)
- dedicated mechanical keyboard
- QuickShot II Turbo like joysticks

----

In short - I would like Amiga-style features, not the modern PC-like performance.

[stevelord]

For me it would have to be:

• 68060 clocked at 100mhz
• Classic chips (Paula, Lisa etc)
• 2Mb switchable Kickstart Rom
• 8Mb Chip Ram, 1Gb on-board fast Ram
• On-board RTC and Wifi via ESP32 module
• RTG compatible graphics with 3d acceleration (ST Micro make some interesting chips that could handle this) with VGA and HDMI
• AHI-compatible sound card with mic/line-in, line-out, headphones and toslink
• On-board Poseidon-compatible USB controller
• 4x 9-pin Joystick connectors (they're not expensive)
• 2x 3.5 drive bays, one for floppy drive, one for USB storage media
• PCI and SATA
• On-board FPGA capable of simulating PPC and performing other loads (e.g. DSP type work, simulating other hardware etc).
• On-board additional ARM modules for offloading processing (e.g. MP3 with MHI etc)
• General purpose additional Risc-V CPU

As we're talking about modern systems initially I'd see this as an Amiga compatible clone with warp-up style capabilities delivered through Risc-V or the FPGA simulating a PPC (if possible). Some of Xilinx's Virtex systems have PPC cores but they're only 405s which I'm not sure are enough. If FPGA-based simulation isn't enough then PCI would hopefully enable Sonnet-style PPC support. Having used MiSTer and played a little with Lattice FPGAs I think having the ability to use the FPGA to run different cores such as SID chip cores compatible with players able to use them would be amazing. Being able to use the FPGA long-term to fill in for dead Paula and Lisa chips would be even better still.



Over time I'd like to see the OS move to Risc-V. Why Risc-V and not PPC or ARM? PPC isn't really that viable. Most ARM dev is in the closed System-On-Chip space, with short lifecycles. Risc-V being (potentially) more open and less tied to the mobile market means that an open Risc-V core could make for a more maintainable future. SiFive already have the unmatched motherboard, which could make for a decent base for the newer build.


Anyway, that's my vision, my dream build. It won't happen but I can dream...

[coldacid]

Fully 32-bit Agnus, a Paula replacement that can do 24-bit, 48kHz audio, and a 68060+ that has all ops on chip instead of requiring a support library to implement certain functionality.

[-Acid-]

Re-write the OS for x86 or Arm (could even use it on phones and tablets) and move into the 21st century using off the shelf PC parts. Keep the OS simple to use and modular like the Amiga has always been and give the users all of the power available these days. Could easily add in 68k native emulation for those wanting to play old games.

[Antiriad_UK]

It's really simple. The A500 with real fast mem. Oh my,

[Rotareneg]

An 8 core 68090 running at 7.16 GHz with 32 GB of DDR5 Fast RAM, Agnus RTX 3000 GPU with 16 GB of GDDR6 Chip RAM, Paula Xtreme Edition (32 bit, 384 kHz,) A25800X bridgeboard.

[tarr]

Sprites. Sprites. Sprites.

[roondar]

In all honesty, my main request would be to have a remake of some of the old models, but with digital video out and standard support for some form of floppy emulation and perhaps some level of USB support for peripherals such as mice and joypads/sticks. Reason being that what I'd like most of all about the concept of a new Amiga is the fact that it isn't a thirty year old ticking time bomb with hard to find spare part needs.

Don't think I'd want much more. But then, I'm an bit of an odd case

[sandruzzo]

So, would be nice to have some Enhanced Aga, even today, instead some more fancy features like PS5

[Foebane]

I'm shocked at what I'm hearing on this thread.

So many of these changes would mean that it's not an Amiga anymore!!!

I mean, how do you DEFINE an Amiga computer?

To me, it has to have one of the main chipsets that MADE the Amiga (OCS, ECS or AGA), and NO updates, a variation of AmigaDOS, and preferably, to have original Amiga people involved in it.

Above all, it must follow the legendary Jay Miner's design philosophy.

In my ideal world, the only improvements I would permit is the addition of Gotek-like drives, HDMI outs and more reliable PCBs where the components don't fail after 20 years.

Oh, we already HAVE those!

Face it, the Amiga has had its limelight. It is, forever more, a retro computer system, and should stay that way.

[d4rk3lf]

If I had several thousands billion to spare, I would first gather a team of researchers to find better alternative to silicon.
https://www.findlight.net/blog/2020/...re%20efficient.

That way, we would brake the barrier of 3Ghz that silicon have, and we could go much higher.
So, i'd first release 2 models, something like this:

Amiga 5000 (Tower)
16 processors with 10 Ghz, and 4TB Ram
LOT's of custom graphics and sound chips for 2D and 3D stuff, and VR
HD with ultra high speed at 25TB
Price: $2999

Amiga 1700 (all in keyboard)
8 processors with 10Ghz, and 2TB Ram.
LOT's of custom graphics and sound chips for 2D and 3D stuff, and VR
HD with ultra high speed at 15TB
Price: $1499

Of course, other company department would develop 5-10 exclusive games for it, and every developer in the world would have access to anything they want.
At least 100 billion would go into the marketing.

Now, the bad news is that it won't be compatible with previous Amiga models, but you could run emulator for PC, that could run Winuae, and very soon, it's own emulator would be developed.

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Originally Posted by Foebane

I'm shocked at what I'm hearing on this thread.

I am also confused by some of the replies as you, but for totally opposite reasons.
Isn't this thread for discussing NEW Amiga's?
I don't see what's new if you propose Amiga with 060 processor.

[Romanujan]

Originally Posted by Foebane

So many of these changes would mean that it's not an Amiga anymore!!!

I mean, how do you DEFINE an Amiga computer?

We don't. We are not the owners of the brand, so we have no possibility to define it.

Originally Posted by Foebane

To me, it has to have one of the main chipsets that MADE the Amiga (OCS, ECS or AGA), and NO updates, a variation of AmigaDOS, and preferably, to have original Amiga people involved in it.

There are different ideas here. I want a machine that will allow me to run all the m68K Amiga software, with a nice performance (but nothing multi-GHz crazy-fast), use modern peripherals, everything in a small form factor (no dozens of daughter boards ands hardware hacks), which I can easily fit somewhere on my desk.

[sandruzzo]

What about a very light portable computer, that can be recharged with solar panel, and custom chipset with the Amigas' legacy?

[roondar]

Originally Posted by Romanujan

There are different ideas here. I want a machine that will allow me to run all the m68K Amiga software, with a nice performance (but nothing multi-GHz crazy-fast), use modern peripherals, everything in a small form factor (no dozens of daughter boards ands hardware hacks), which I can easily fit somewhere on my desk.

See, the reason I didn't ask for a faster/better Amiga is actually largely related to this wish. To my mind, we already have that in the form of WinUAE/FS-UAE/Mister/etc. Basically any old laptop/mini PC can run all the m68K Amiga software.

But, that's just my opinion

[Romanujan]

WinUAE/FS-UAE = purely software emulators, requiring a powerful machine (and a host OS) to provide decent features and compatibility, with uneven performance, requiring interfaces to connect the joysticks.

MiSTer still has a long way to go, it doesn't even provide the FPU, and is terrible regarding location of the ports - they are put all around the device. There are some project that give me hope for the future (UnAmiga ITX, Buffee) - but there is still a long way to go.

[Akiko]

I wouldn't that ship has long since sailed and Vampire and Raspberry Pi solutions otherwise fill that gap. I'd instead make a decent accelerator for all the classic Amiga range, lets face it the Amiga will never again be mainstream and software developers are like gold dust even if someone released some fancy 16-core machine.

Accelerator:

* 060 socket for those that want to use it, for those that don't would be a drop-in FPGA 060 implementation up to 200 MHZ

* Up to 2GB memory, or whatever is the limit.

* A powerful ARM co-processor that would be used in a similar way to WarpOS, developers cold tinker with it to make whatever AmigaOS apps are feasible, VLC, DosBox, MP3 decoding, JPEG decoding etc.

*Up to 1080p resolution, proper video switching like on the ZZ9000, 16-Bit audio, USB 2, faster IDE etc.

* A bit controversial but I would have something like a Raspberry Pi Compute Module running a Linux distribution in the background, it would work something like Rabbit Hole on Amikit, seamlessly re-targeting Apps onto the workbench, like modern browsers which have proven impossible on Amiga to keep fully featured and maintained.