Will 3.x ever get a modern browser

[grelbfarlk]

Originally Posted by utri007

Not true, Netsurf does javascript. 68k version has Javascript turned OFF by default. It slows down system a lot.

I was going to say, what's all this then:

# Enable NetSurf's use of duktape for javascript
# Valid options: YES, NO
NETSURF_USE_DUKTAPE := YES

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by utri007

Not true, Netsurf does javascript.

Then they should update their documentation.

http://www.netsurf-browser.org/docum...tml#JavaScript

At present, NetSurf has only primitive and incomplete support for JavaScript, which we disable by default. Without JavaScript, NetSurf is able to provide access to most of sites on the World Wide Web. Some sites, however, will not display correctly or be unworkable due to heavy reliance on this standard.

Full JavaScript is support is planned but we are currently a long way off achieving it. Many things need to be done before complete JavaScript support can be considered, such as changing our web page layout engine to handle dynamic changes being made to the page.

[kolla]

Soon enough, the world moves to HTTP/3 and we no longer need to worry about Amiga web browsers

[asymetrix]

@thread

For me, I dont want linux ported stuff that is programmed spcifically for NON Amiga systems.

I would prefer we have our own way to do things.
If we need a browser, then break up all the core componants and ask which pieces we need and creat custom Amiga optimized parts that can we also used in other software.

Super optimized Javascript hand optimized for Amiga systems, JSDOM that integrates properly into AmigaOS API etc.

Yes we need ports, but look at how they do it and create effecient code blocks that reuese across applications.

Work smarter, not harder.

For example some software are starting to use Javascript program that uses JSON to transfer data from a web browsers DOM to transfer data to a spreadsheet that computes on that data which is auto supplied to data merge with pdf creation tools.
Almost like a web based Arexx language communicating to every software doing data transfer using JSON via internal JSDOM/XML/HTMLDOM dbs.

for example sketch app is a popular mac only program that is an alternative to Indesign running completely from Javascript/html/css ( program has access to JS interpreter and api access to html/css, using DOM).

all the user interface is running web technology, very light, small, dynamic auto generated config files.
[ Show youtube player ]

[Don_Adan]

Solution is easy. Port the best 68k browser from Mac to Amiga. Give some money to author or buy source from him.
http://icab.de/download.html

[britelite]

Originally Posted by Don_Adan

Solution is easy. Port the best 68k browser from Mac to Amiga. Give some money to author or buy source from him.

Well, considering the last 68k-version came out in 2008 or so, it's already 10 years old and very outdated.

[Don_Adan]

Originally Posted by britelite

Well, considering the last 68k-version came out in 2008 or so, it's already 10 years old and very outdated.

Yes, but this browser is native 68k browser. Is better than IBrowse, no MUI etc.
Maybe if someone give/sponsor him Vampire V4 standalone with autostarted ShapeShifter, he can update old iCAB sources.

[britelite]

Originally Posted by Don_Adan

Maybe if someone give/sponsor him Vampire V4 standalone with autostarted ShapeShifter, he can update old iCAB sources.

I'm guessing he switched to Webkit for a reason, so I'm pretty sure you'd have to pay him quite a bit of money to touch the old 68k-code

[ShK]

I've tested iCAB. It's as useless nowadays as 68k Netscape Navigator and 68k Internet Explorer (MacOS 8.1).

[Locutus]

The thought that porting MacOS code to AmigaOS is somehow more feasible amuses me.

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by ExiE

If you are talking about http://forum.amiga.org/ your test is still flawed. Even after removing external css files, Amiga.org is still using inline styles, javascripts, is not valid, contains errors in the code...

I removed the javascript and inline styles, and fixed trivial errors flagged by the HTML validator at https://validator.w3.org. Netsurf still took 4.6+ seconds to load this basic HTML file on my PC.

However it turns out my other tests were a little unfair. I was running IBrowse in demo mode, which is limited to 2 simultaneous network connections. I obtained a keyfile (for evaluation purposes only!) to unlock its more advanced features, and https://forum.amiga.org now loads completely in 87 seconds - down from 140 seconds in demo mode. The non-secure page http://forums.amiga.org loads in just 34 seconds and is fully interactive in 8 seconds.

I also installed IBrowse 2.4 and Netsurf 3.8 on my A600 with Vampire 600 V2.5. Running on a saga 800x600 16 bit Workbench screen (Netsurf doesn't like 24 bit), IBrowse completely loaded http://forums.amiga.org in 10 seconds, twice as fast as Netsurf. Scrolling in IBrowse was almost instantaneous, and general operation was very responsive. Netsurf's rendering was beautiful, but operation wasn't - with jerky scrolling and 'freezing' when busy. The worst part is that Netsurf insists on completely rendering the entire page before you can interact with it, which makes it effectively much slower than IBrowse.

[utri007]

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

I also installed IBrowse 2.4 and Netsurf 3.8 on my A600 with Vampire 600 V2.5. Running on a saga 800x600 16 bit Workbench screen (Netsurf doesn't like 24 bit), IBrowse completely loaded http://forums.amiga.org in 10 seconds, twice as fast as Netsurf. Scrolling in IBrowse was almost instantaneous, and general operation was very responsive. Netsurf's rendering was beautiful, but operation wasn't - with jerky scrolling and 'freezing' when busy. The worst part is that Netsurf insists on completely rendering the entire page before you can interact with it, which makes it effectively much slower than IBrowse.

I just don't understand point of these comparisons. You are just proving that browser wich supports only twenty years old standards requires less horse power than semi modern browser.

BUT

You are testing Frambuffer/SDL version wich is originally targeted no GUI systems and debugging. It doesn't support multitasking, doesn't have native GUI, have problems support 24bit colors and different size screens etc.

You are basicly proving that Arti should rename his browser.

Interesteing part is that Vampire is so slow. Netsurf loads forums.amiga.org 23 seconds with my 68060, Arti's requires almost 60 seconds.

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by utri007

Netsurf loads forums.amiga.org 23 seconds with my 68060, Arti's requires almost 60 seconds.

I'm confused. I thought the official Netsurf 3.8 required Amiga OS4, and that only runs on PPC?

[utri007]

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

I'm confused. I thought the official Netsurf 3.8 required Amiga OS4, and that only runs on PPC?

Are you?

So since I will never let OS3.5/9 near my machine that means I won't ever be able to run 'real' Netsurf

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...4&postcount=77

Short history of Amiga version of Netsurf.

Chris Young ported Netsurf to OS4. He made it keeping mind that some day somebody might want to port it to 68k Amigas. Arti tried, but he couldn't get it compiled, so he started to tinkering frambuffer/SDl frontend. He added GUI, etc to it. Netsurf team said that they woun't support that fork and asked Arti to to rename his project something else. Anohter porblem is that Arti hasn't uploaded sources like license terms requires.

Chris Young decided to do 68k version himself, just to proof that Frambuffer/SDL is dead end. But also because Archimeds/RiscOS and even Atari ST versions of Netsurf was so much faster. He decided create Netsurf port wich has a Reaction GUI, just like a Amiga OS4 version has. It required less memory, was much faster and responsive than Frambuffer/SDL version at least with REAL Amigas, out of the box without any optimizations. It has al the features like OS4 version has, Amiga menus, settings, tabs, etc.

Chris has very little interest to maintain it, but it is in official source tree and has a official auto builds. (it generates updated Amiga exe every time when somebody add /removes something to source codes). So it is as offical as it can be.

https://ci.netsurf-browser.org/builds/amigaos3/

[Minuous]

Well, if you refuse to upgrade from OS3.1, no wonder you are having a hard time finding a decent browser for such an obsolete system.

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by utri007

Chris has very little interest to maintain it, but it is in official source tree and has a official auto builds. (it generates updated Amiga exe every time when somebody add /removes something to source codes). So it is as offical as it can be.

https://ci.netsurf-browser.org/builds/amigaos3/

Thanks for the link. I was confused because there was no mention of this on the Downloads page, where it states that OS4 is required. Even https://ci.netsurf-browser.org/ does not appear to have a link to the 3.5/3.9 builds.

Originally Posted by Minuous

Well, if you refuse to upgrade from OS3.1, no wonder you are having a hard time finding a decent browser for such an obsolete system.

Just the sort of admonishment that users of obsolete Amigas want to hear, not!

3.5 is obsolete and unavailable. To 'upgrade' my A1200 to 3.9 I would need to replace the ROM and add a CDROM drive, then purchase OS3.9 - all just to run one program that I don't need.

If I get enough time I will try modifying Netsurf's source code to make a version that works on 3.0. This may take a while because I am no compiler guru and the instructions for building AmigaOS NetSurf don't say what modifications are required to produce a 3.x version. However since nobody else seems to be interested in doing it...

[utri007]

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

If I get enough time I will try modifying Netsurf's source code to make a version that works on 3.0. This may take a while because I am no compiler guru and the instructions for building AmigaOS NetSurf don't say what modifications are required to produce a 3.x version. However since nobody else seems to be interested in doing it...

Both OS3.5/9 are upgrades over OS3.1. They replace tons of patches and fixes many issues.

Fixing Netsurf to work with OS3.1 migh be a 5 minits job for a coder. Netsurf uses Reaction gui system, wich was ClassAct earlier. SO if you have AWeb installed and it Works, you already has a working ClassAct installation.

Netsurf migh work with ClassAct, with very minor changes.

[wawa]

Originally Posted by britelite

Well, considering the last 68k-version came out in 2008 or so, it's already 10 years old and very outdated.

funny that you need to repeat it to a quarreling amiga community, but if you are really inclined, grab a source of aros owb. it has 10 years webkit applied to amiga (not macos) api, ready for you. given you have ported dependencies, at least as static, already. but you will have to, anyway.
(and working, even today)
you might even have a considerably more up to date webkit source with aros odyssey, given mostly the same libs, that even already compiles for m68k. good thing, there are endian issues left for you to solve, not that you get served all that on a plate..

but no.. that would be too easy..

..just find yet more impossible and remote schemes to discuss about. i congratulate your imagination..

(not that i want to adress you personally here, britelite. im quoting this because its a root of usual idiotic ramblings that follow.)

[n9yty]

This is a very interesting thread. I think for me, it would be nice if iBrowse 2.5 came out, as I'm just getting back into things, and iBrowse 2.4 w/AmiSSL that I have found can't open very many SSL pages. I'm not worried about perfect rendering, close is good enough, and I shut of JavaScript to speed it along, I just want to be able to crawl through the page to find the content and download files. I'm sorry, but I don't expect to have it handle all the things a modern browser does on my poor A1200 w/ACA1233/128MB, but it would be nice to have it handle modern SSL connections anyway.

[duga]

Originally Posted by n9yty

This is a very interesting thread. I think for me, it would be nice if iBrowse 2.5 came out, as I'm just getting back into things, and iBrowse 2.4 w/AmiSSL that I have found can't open very many SSL pages. I'm not worried about perfect rendering, close is good enough, and I shut of JavaScript to speed it along, I just want to be able to crawl through the page to find the content and download files. I'm sorry, but I don't expect to have it handle all the things a modern browser does on my poor A1200 w/ACA1233/128MB, but it would be nice to have it handle modern SSL connections anyway.

No SSL pages at all, right?