A1200.net Staff Moderating Facebook posts

[AndyC]

Hi folks,

I'm putting this out there to get a feel for what people think. Before I go on, I want to make clear that I have an A1200.net case and keycaps. They are fantastic products, and I am very happy with mine.

There are reports, however, that some white A1200.net cases are beginning to yellow. From my recollection, they were very clear from the onset that the cases would not yellow, at all. A brief search of wayback machine found that this was, indeed the case. However, looking at subsequent revisions of the page, this claim was quietly removed.

A facebook user posted their concerns on the page, and a perfectly civil conversation ensued, which Phillipe and Marcel from A1200.net were quickly alerted to. I posted screenshots of the original wording, and subsequent revisions, and pointed out that people might have good reason to complain, given what they were told. I wasn't rude or unpleasant in any way.

Both Phillipe and Marcel engaged, quite forcefully, with me over a series of posts, which culminated in a rather silly "Karen" comment, which aside from being casually sexist and misogynistic, actually breached the sites own posting rules on etiquette.

No sooner had this post been made when the entire thread was locked, presumably by Marcel, who made the final comment moments before.

The thread can be viewed here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Comm...9667579304157/

Now, there was no legitimate reason to close the thread. It is entirely reasonable to discuss the quality of products made available to the Amiga community. In this case, there are clear issues with claims made about the product, which could become a major issue for people that purchased these over the preceding years (being under the entirely reasonable impression that the cases won't yellow).

What is fairly obvious (although I'm happy to be corrected) is that Marcel, who is himself a moderator of the Facebook page, has abused his position, and has a clear conflict of interest, by stifling legitimate discussion of A1200.net's products, and their conduct.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else here agrees, or if this isn't worth getting worked up about.

Thanks!

AndyC

[gimbal]

You wrote this while still fuming, right?

[AndyC]

hehe,

Nah this was hours ago - I wrote this at someone else's suggestion :-)

A.

[DanScott]

You got something that did something that you were told it wouldn't do??

You have every right to complain!

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by DanScott

You got something that did something that you were told it wouldn't do??

You have every right to complain!

Yeah, that's not in doubt - the question is, should representatives of A1200.net be moderating posts that are critical of them?

[DanScott]

No, but obviously they probably will to protect their own failings

[itsmedoofer]

Thier game, thier rules I suppose, the Raspberry Pi forum is much the same, criticism results in locked threads and bans..

[Signman]

Casually sexist and misogynistic? You’re a man right? Grow a pair.
As far as those guys, they are French, right? Certain traits I have noticed.
I just want my keycaps after three or is it four years since my Indigogo support. Maybe my grandchildren will enjoy them.

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by Signman

As far as those guys, they are French, right? Certain traits I have noticed.

I'm curious to know more about these traits that can identify someone nationality and how their supposed frenchness is relevant.
By the way, Philippe is french, Marcel isn't.

[Argo]

I don't do FB Do you have any photos of one or more cases that have yellowed That was the whole point of their project To provide new cases that would not yellow
I have unearthed my A1200 and once I get it recapped I was thinking of a new case Guess not

[TCD]

Seems like the FB thread is now deleted (always a good idea to take screenshots to preserve stuff). Anyway, from experience that's the risk you take with these kind of very niche products. People are often overly protective of their product which can lead to let's say 'interesting' situations. Not limited to Amiga.

[Predseda]

Yes. On their website there is (already) not stated the new cases will not yellow, but that they will yellow more slowly...

https://www.a1200.net/amiga-1200-case/

[amenophis]

Originally Posted by Signman

As far as those guys, they are French, right? Certain traits I have noticed.

Insults now?
What are your traits?

Originally Posted by Predseda

Yes. On their website there is (already) not stated the new cases will not yellow, but that they will yellow more slowly...

https://www.a1200.net/amiga-1200-case/

And there are reasons for that.
Logical ones.

Doesn't mean the team are bad people.

Because that's what it is on this thread right?
A1200.net are bad people.

Originally Posted by TCD

Seems like the FB thread is now deleted (always a good idea to take screenshots to preserve stuff). Anyway, from experience that's the risk you take with these kind of very niche products. People are often overly protective of their product which can lead to let's say 'interesting' situations. Not limited to Amiga.

You are wrong, FB thread is here I can see it.

From experience the "interesting situations" you describe comes from people who have no clue what they're talking about.

[amenophis]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Hi folks,

../...

@AndyC & all,


I'm Phil,


First of all, I'm glad you're happy with your case and keycaps.

However your recollection of events my dear Andy, puts myself and team on a rather bad light.
Respectfully, the way you are presenting facts aren't how things happened really...

Its easy to put shame on the team using just few words on this forum just because you didn't approve of a post being locked up.

Debunking takes a bit more time. People like drama & few complain for pretty much anything without doing any reading/research whatsoever.

This post and the one on FB are one of the few reasons we'll most certainly not produce anything else for Amiga anymore. You can mark my words. Despite the hundreds of positive feedback we get - and more - this type of attitude just kills it.

Few guys in team told me recently this is why we can't have nice things in Amiga land. And I believe them now.


Note : if someone encounter issues with products we're painfully producing for the community, maybe best thing would be try to reach any of the team guys first?

A couple guys did exactly that over the last few years and everything went smooth. I'm very glad they reached out so we could replace their unit but most importantly : collect the defective ones to send to engineers!



Is there a possibility for our cases to yellow? - Yes!
- All plastics will yellow over time - that is fact.
The catch lies in the difference in the formula used in the plastic we use.
It means that under normal use our cases won't get yellow - hence why we advertise those this way.




The cases are expensive enough to produce & the engineers we work with provided the best formula possible to avoid early yellowing or a product too sensible to light.

However, under harsh conditions, yes they might yellow. And we have a couple examples..






Did we get reports of yellowed cases? - Yes!
- So far we had 3 reports. Those lads sent us photos & exposure details as well setup details. Turns out the conjunction of strong UV light/sun/heat where those units were exposed to resulted in case exposed parts/sections to show marks. The strongest came from a fellow user in Malta, which case was directly under the sun, under the window, no shades no nothing for a year and half.

The post on FB shows another case owner reported his unit has yellowed. This person did not contact us - hence no idea under which conditions this happened.


So here's the facts :
3+1 reported occurrences of yellowed cases (to some degrees) for more than 2K cases produced
That is a staggering 0.2% defect.


Is it necessary to go further?
- and bash the team or myself for this in the process?



Here's how this post went from my perspective.


1 - Michael Kirk posted a photo of his A1200 case, sharing and I quote :


"Has anyone else noticed their A1200.net case appears to be yellowing? Mine is currently not screwed together (messing with custom ROMs) and I've noticed the lip on the inside that is normally hidden, to the naked eye looks whiter than the outside of the case."




2 - First feedback comes from Marcel, who explains that lighting is tricky and suggest OP to check under normal light.

3 - Marcel then gives a few tips to another commenter, about the reason why things are getting yellow sometimes. (not only plastic).

4 - Michael Kirk admitted he was wrong and amended his post!


5 - I posted twice as well :
First time to explaining : "It is ILLEGAL to import/distribute plastic items anywhere if they're prone to release toxic fumes and/or able to flame burn should said event happen - the team would be legally liable if someone would get hurt because of it."


Second post I gave an example with car seat belts. Seat belts are advertised to save life. Do they shield from death? No.

I admit, the comparison is a bit far.. but at the time of writing nothing else came to mind..



6 - Mark *** comes in. He's the one in this thread who had is case gotten slightly yellowed. He did not contact us. Hence we didn't know about it.

Seeing the photo My guess is his case was partially sitting under either a window and directly facing sun, in a hot/warm environment.







So all should have ended well right?
- OP confirmed he was wrong and all is well in wonderland


Wait, This is Amigaland remember?
Nothing best than good drama.

This is where Marcel got annoyed I guess.




I'm not part of Commodore Amiga FB admin groups. I have no say.
And Marcel isn't the only admin so if this was a mistake I think the other admins would come in?
Not sure how this admins stuff work on FB though.



Was this a "Karen" stuff happening?
- Repeating over the same stuff without listening what you've been explained.. that is Karen yes.






Oh and for those not "happy" with my feedback here, just note that as much as you I have the right to share my feelings - and even more when few people objectives are just to harm under the false pretense of being wrongly shut down.

Least to say,
I have enough of it.
I won't comment further down.

Cheers.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by amenophis

From experience the "interesting situations" you describe comes from people who have no clue what they're talking about.

I'm not surprised that your mileage varies Sorry for assuming the thread has been removed. Always forget that you need to be a member of the group to see threads on FB.

[sokolovic]

It makes my think that I regret not to buy the grey or light grey version of the case. It was quite nice. Hope it will be available again one day (and with a matching key cap set, better).

[acidbottle]

Hmm, this is disappointing news, though seems the cases of yellowing are extreme ones, direct sunlight in a sunny country!

Had mine since around 2019 and while it is exposed to sunlight, In Scotland it is quite minimal! Not a jot of yellowing so far but I guess over a longer period of time it will do so. The number 1 reason I got the case and keys was the promise, on the kickstarter, they would under no circumstances yellow.

Thank you for highlighting the issue though.

[SnoopDOS]

Observation, @AndyC I see no proof. Show us evidence or you are a drama queen.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by amenophis

Because that's what it is on this thread right?
A1200.net are bad people.
.

Em, if you say so - I didn't insinuate that at all.

It is undeniable that A1200.net stated that the cases would not ever yellow over time. It's there for all to see in the historical record.

All you had to do was apologise for *unintentionally* misleading people. But instead you paint yourself as this amazing philanthropist that the rest of us should venerate for all the great things you've done for the community. The arrogance is breath-taking.

But this post is about whether or not members of A1200.net team should be able to moderate posts discussing their products. And the answer is most emphatically "no".

A.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by SnoopDOS

Observation, @AndyC I see no proof. Show us evidence or you are a drama queen.

The proof is in the facebook post - Wayback Machine has copies of the original kickstarter, which clearly stated the cases would never yellow.

The screenshots are in the facebook thread, or you can take a look for yourself.

A.