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Old 23 November 2022, 12:56   #1
Reynolds
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Warp3D, StormMesa, MiniGL/OpenGL, wazp3D, etc.

Does anyone knows, if there is any detailed article about these stuff?
I'd like to understand better how my 3D accelerated configs should have to work, what sw packages are needed for what, with bearing in mind if there is any attributes or settings which needs to be checked for stable operation.

I had issues way back with building a proper system but had no time/knowledge until now, and it would be useful, maybe for others as well.
I don't want to start making a clean WB install then messing up by accident or lack of knowledge at the end, at this point.
I also don't know the real difference about SMesa, GL and W3D, so any help I appreciate.
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Old 23 November 2022, 13:41   #2
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So, at least as far as the non-Nova version of Warp3D I can fill a few blanks.

Warp3D is a hardware abstraction layer and associated set of drivers for accelerating rasrerisation. Specifically, drawing of depth sorted, textured, shaded triangles that are the typical end product of a 3D graphics pipeline. It doesn't do any of the actual 3D calculations involved in creating those triangles.

GL is a full stack 3D (also 2D) API that handles all the necessary calculations required for common 3D rendering, such as geometry transformation, lighting, etc. Implementations of GL include MiniGL and StormMesa. Both implementations make use of Warp3D to accelerate the final drawing stages, though StormMesa is able to use pure software rendering too.
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Old 23 November 2022, 13:44   #3
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Wazp3D is a replacement for Warp3D that's useful under emulation. I believe it uses (or can use) the underlying native GL implementation to perform the drawing.

What would be cool (maybe this exists somewhere) is a similar implementation of either MiniGL or Mesa that, under emulation, talks directly to the host native GL/Vulkan to do the job.
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Old 23 November 2022, 14:00   #4
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You can use WOSprefs to configure Warp3D and StormMESA:

https://aminet.net/package/util/misc/WOSprefs
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Old 23 November 2022, 14:05   #5
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If you have OS4.1 classic, it's possible to set per application Warp3D settings via ENV: that override the globals.
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Old 23 November 2022, 14:19   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlos View Post
So, at least as far as the non-Nova version of Warp3D I can fill a few blanks.

Warp3D is a hardware abstraction layer and associated set of drivers for accelerating rasrerisation. Specifically, drawing of depth sorted, textured, shaded triangles that are the typical end product of a 3D graphics pipeline. It doesn't do any of the actual 3D calculations involved in creating those triangles.

GL is a full stack 3D (also 2D) API that handles all the necessary calculations required for common 3D rendering, such as geometry transformation, lighting, etc. Implementations of GL include MiniGL and StormMesa. Both implementations make use of Warp3D to accelerate the final drawing stages, though StormMesa is able to use pure software rendering too.
So if I understand correctly, these are not counterparts of each others, but relays from them, as all these are on a certain level within the system. I presume, if I would like to prepare a system with all possible solutions needed for any programs, I have to install all, obviously the latest / most stable selected...?
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Old 23 November 2022, 14:20   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlos View Post
Wazp3D is a replacement for Warp3D that's useful under emulation. I believe it uses (or can use) the underlying native GL implementation to perform the drawing.

What would be cool (maybe this exists somewhere) is a similar implementation of either MiniGL or Mesa that, under emulation, talks directly to the host native GL/Vulkan to do the job.
As I'm not in emulation, then I can leave this out from my TODO list
Thanks anyway to give some help for understanding.
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Old 23 November 2022, 14:21   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlos View Post
If you have OS4.1 classic, it's possible to set per application Warp3D settings via ENV: that override the globals.
I have, that also will be re-installed and I will then check that, thanks.
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Old 23 November 2022, 14:22   #9
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Quote:
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You can use WOSprefs to configure Warp3D and StormMESA:

https://aminet.net/package/util/misc/WOSprefs
Isn't it the same thing what I have already in my OS3.9? Can't recall exactly but I know there is some kind of prefs editor tool there.
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Old 23 November 2022, 14:24   #10
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In the meantime one specific issue came to my mind. When I try to start a W3D-using program (like glQuake, or some WOS scenedemos) a new screen opens up but then it changes to grey, then nothing else happens. I bet there is some trivial reason why that happens, but never really had chance to identify it...
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Old 23 November 2022, 14:28   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post
In the meantime one specific issue came to my mind. When I try to start a W3D-using program (like glQuake, or some WOS scenedemos) a new screen opens up but then it changes to grey, then nothing else happens. I bet there is some trivial reason why that happens, but never really had chance to identify it...
First of all, which graphics card are you using, how much memory does it have, what is the size and depth of your workbench screen and the resolution you are trying to use for quake?

When in doubt, it's generally better to start windowed it your workbench screen is a compatible RGB mode already.
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Old 23 November 2022, 14:32   #12
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It is valid not just for Quake, but for other W3D stuffs as well.
I have an 1024x786 WB with 16 screendepth, having a CVisionPPC in that config.
For Quake I've set 640x480.
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Old 23 November 2022, 14:38   #13
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Quote:
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It is valid not just for Quake, but for other W3D stuffs as well.
I have an 1024x786 WB with 16 screendepth, having a CVisionPPC in that config.
For Quake I've set 640x480.
So, you only have 8MB of video ram. Your WB screen is already using 1.5MB. Depending on how many buffers quake is using (double or triple), assuming it's 16BPP, you're going to have 3-4 buffers of about 600K each. It should be enough though at full texture detail you may get some swapping. If it's just greyscreening maybe there's a different issue. Is this GL Quake WOS under 3.x or is it GLQuake on OS4 ? I think the latter may try to enable multitexture mode by default which definitely doesn't work on Permedia.
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Old 23 November 2022, 14:50   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlos View Post
So, you only have 8MB of video ram. Your WB screen is already using 1.5MB. Depending on how many buffers quake is using (double or triple), assuming it's 16BPP, you're going to have 3-4 buffers of about 600K each. It should be enough though at full texture detail you may get some swapping. If it's just greyscreening maybe there's a different issue. Is this GL Quake WOS under 3.x or is it GLQuake on OS4 ? I think the latter may try to enable multitexture mode by default which definitely doesn't work on Permedia.
Currently I'm on it to understand how OS3.9 and 3d accelerated gfx, so yes, I'm heading to solve this on a 3.x system. The annoying part is, that it worked, but I experienced some strange behaviour of my whole setup and that's why I decided to build from scratch with learning what to do and how to do...
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Old 23 November 2022, 17:23   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post
Isn't it the same thing what I have already in my OS3.9? Can't recall exactly but I know there is some kind of prefs editor tool there.
No, that is just for WarpOS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post
I presume, if I would like to prepare a system with all possible solutions needed for any programs, I have to install all, obviously the latest / most stable selected...?
If you are interested in running more obscure software you might also be interested in installing these:

Rave3D (CVPPC/BVPPC only) :

https://web.archive.org/web/20030621...v4/rave3d.html

Mesa 3.1 for use with ixemul software:

https://aminet.net/package/util/libs/Mesa-3.1
https://aminet.net/package/util/libs/Mesa-aux
https://aminet.net/package/util/libs/Mesa-glut
https://aminet.net/package/util/libs/Mesa-tk
https://aminet.net/package/util/libs/Mesa-fix

AmigaMesaRTL (sofware 3D only) :

https://aminet.net/search?query=amigamesartl
Works nicely with Framsticks:
https://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p...68&postcount=2
Might be a bit slow on real hardware though. A Warp3D wrapper for this would be great.

Last edited by James; 23 November 2022 at 17:34. Reason: Added more links
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Old 23 November 2022, 20:35   #16
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Also worth a look here;

https://grimore.org/fuss/amiga

You may need to use Warp3D V4.0
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Old 24 November 2022, 09:05   #17
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Thanks for all, now just can't wait to get things started.

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