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Old 18 November 2022, 19:32   #1
Gaula92
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Elvira intro music missing notes

Hi there,


I have noticed that, compared to the Elvira OSTs available on youtube and how the game sounds in Scummvm, Elvira 1 intro music on my Amiga systems running without WHDLoad is clearly missing some notes.


Now, I know these games are VERY sensitive to faster CPUs, FastRam, etc.
But I have tried the game on plain 68000 systems with KS 1.3 and still I hear the same missing notes (the game won't run properly on KS 3.x Amigas, so that's out of the question).


So, what does this game expect to sound right without WHDLoad? KS 1.2 maybe? Anything else?
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Old 19 November 2022, 17:09   #2
Torti-the-Smurf
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Yes, i know what you mean; but its only the Intro, right ?

I think the Music player dosent like the "faster Ram"; but i am not 100% sure.
(had no time to proper test this)

Wepl himself is pretty busy; so i dont know if/or when he get back to Elvira.

Sorry.
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Old 19 November 2022, 17:45   #3
jotd
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some music players have cpu-dependent loops. If code runs in fastmem it's too fast and music can have issues. Changing the kickstart has no effect on that bug.

whdload slaves often fix that issue.
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Old 19 November 2022, 18:21   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jotd View Post
Changing the kickstart has no effect on that bug
Exactly.

@ JOTD; Can you maybe look into this?
Bert is super busy as far as i know and you know this stuff so well.

(weirdly, its only the first Track that get affected if i remember correctly)

Adding a option to use the NumPad for Movement would be super duper sweet too.

If not, thats okay too; we love you anyway

Greetings,
Torti
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Old 19 November 2022, 22:23   #5
Gaula92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jotd View Post
some music players have cpu-dependent loops. If code runs in fastmem it's too fast and music can have issues. Changing the kickstart has no effect on that bug.

whdload slaves often fix that issue.

I suspected that, so I loaded the game with NO FastRAM at all, and the same problem happens.
So it's not FastRAM, that's why I opened the thread: it's a mistery what's causing this.

Plain 68000, KS 1.3, 1MB Chip, NO FastRAM... and the game has those missing notes on the intro.
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Old 20 November 2022, 16:16   #6
Torti-the-Smurf
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I created a Mantis Bug Report. Maybe, the WHDLoad version get fixed
http://mantis.whdload.de/view.php?id=5879

Greetings,
Torti

Last edited by Torti-the-Smurf; 22 November 2022 at 14:12. Reason: Correction of the text
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Old 20 November 2022, 23:34   #7
Torti-the-Smurf
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Psygore did fix it. (he is so freaking fast )

Now its flawless

http://mantis.whdload.de/file_downlo...=1513&type=bug

Thank you so much Psygore
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Old 21 November 2022, 20:26   #8
Gaula92
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But I still don't know what exact system does the game expect to run on in order to play ALL notes right.
I wasn't asking about an WHDLoad fix, but about what makes the game miss notes even on KS 1.3, plain 6800, no FastRam.
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Old 22 November 2022, 01:06   #9
Torti-the-Smurf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaula92 View Post
But I still don't know what exact system does the game expect to run on in order to play ALL notes right.
It did expect an A500/1000/2000 with 1MB of Ram.
(and REAL HARDWARE, not emulation )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaula92 View Post
I wasn't asking about an WHDLoad fix
Sorry

But now everybody has the option for that new fixed WHDLoad Slave,
thanks to Psygore. He did fix it, so it can be played on pretty much every Setup.
IsnĀ“t that great ? I think it is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaula92 View Post
What makes the game miss notes even on KS 1.3, plain 6800, no FastRam.
A fishy custom Music Player. ? *

Also, you use Emulation (i guess) and not a real Amiga. (maybe you find a setting that works)
but there are things that dosent work correctly in WinUAE & Co.

(thats why i always use a Real Amiga or at least a FPGA Amiga for Games & Demos -
; and i LOVE WinUAE; such a great Tool )

That said, same Intro Music "glitch" happends on my Amiga A600 Furia and FPGA AGA Amiga.
None of the "expected ones" like mentioned above.



Greetings,
Torti


*Psygore would know

Last edited by Torti-the-Smurf; 22 November 2022 at 14:13. Reason: better text formation, i hope :)
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Old 22 November 2022, 10:48   #10
Gaula92
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I never play on emulators, I simply use FS-UAE to setup Amiga HDFs.


So, on real hardware, I have tested Elvira on Amiga 600 with 1 MB CHIP ONLY, nothing else, and the intro notes are missing.
I have also tested it on the Minimig core on MiSTer, configured to a plain 68000 + 1MB CHIP ONLY, KS 1.3, and the into notes are missing.


So, really, it's also a problem on real HW and FPGAs, NOT a problem with emulation because I don't even try games on emulators.
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Old 22 November 2022, 12:13   #11
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Oh, it sounded like you use Emulation; Sorry.

Did you try load it from Floppy ? (just as a test; nobody in there right mind would want to juggle all those disks )

In any case, i still think its just a buggy player that expect a certain timing.

But really,why even bother. As soon as the game starts the Music is fine

If you really want to play it (on any setup) i would recommend the fixed WHDLoad Version.
(only a suggestion of course)

Greetings, Torti

Last edited by Torti-the-Smurf; 23 November 2022 at 02:10. Reason: Small Typo found
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Old 23 November 2022, 09:22   #12
Gaula92
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I have tried floppies on both Amiga 600 and Minimig core with plain 68000 + 1MB Chip + KS 1.3 + OCS + no FastRam, and I still get the missing notes.

Booting the floppies was the first thing I tried.

I am NOT interested on playing the game right now, so I don't need the WHDLoad slave for it: I simply want to know in what hardware config does the game run with zero music problems, as an historical fact.
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Old 23 November 2022, 15:50   #13
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What about on A500, guess that is the machine it was designed to run on ?
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Old 23 November 2022, 15:58   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaula92 View Post
I have noticed that, compared to the Elvira OSTs available on youtube and how the game sounds in Scummvm, Elvira 1 intro music on my Amiga systems running without WHDLoad is clearly missing some notes.
Could you link to one of the OST videos? Like S0ulA55a551n said A500 should be the model to test this with.
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Old 23 November 2022, 20:05   #15
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@TCD: This one, for example, seems to sound right:
[ Show youtube player ]
...This other, however, shows the missing notes:
[ Show youtube player ]
My guess is that they are both recorded using emulators.

I don't have an Amiga 500. I have an Amiga 600, and I have a MiSTer where I can use an unmodified Amiga 500 KS 1.x ( version 33.180) with a plain 68000, OCS-A500, 0.5MB Chip + 0.5MB SlowRAM to mimic an Amiga 500, but still I get the missing notes.
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Old 24 November 2022, 21:52   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torti-the-Smurf View Post
Psygore did fix it. (he is so freaking fast )

Now its flawless

http://mantis.whdload.de/file_downlo...=1513&type=bug

Thank you so much Psygore

I have tried that slave with latest WHDLoad and there are still missing notes.
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Old 25 November 2022, 15:08   #17
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Funny, it works for me. (Tried 3 different setups)
(ok, on 1 setup there is 1 note missing, but thats it)

I think we going down a rabbit hole here
The game works great

I dont get why are you so obsessed with this intro song anyway

Besides, you said :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaula92 View Post

I am NOT interested on playing the game right now, so I don't need the WHDLoad slave for it: I simply want to know in what hardware config does the game run with zero music problems, as an historical fact.
So, call me confused right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaula92 View Post

I simply want to know in what hardware config does the game run with zero music problems, as an historical fact.
Here is the Manual.

https://hol.abime.net/hol_pic.php?id...5ZV2RwWTJzPQ==

Sorry. Thats all i can do for you.
To go even "deeper" you would need to ask the makers/programmer themself
what board revisions they where using

I still think its super sensitive to timing.

greetings,
Torti
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Old 25 November 2022, 15:59   #18
ross
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If the game was made for A500 KS1.3 I do not see a single reason why this should not work in a similar configuration (also for example know if it is NTSC or PAL).

And no, A600 or Minimig is not exactly the same (you could try to softkick KS1.3 in the A600).
And also I absolutely do not trust videos on youtube, they may have used particular settings, such as a mixing from stereo to mono that change the perception of sound.

If the game uses system libraries* for play then there may be small differences in timing between different kickstarts and the MiSTer emulation may not be 100% accurate.

Instead I expect the latest versions of WinUAE, in the same hardware configuration, to emulate it properly.

*I've not checked it.
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Old 25 November 2022, 20:08   #19
Torti-the-Smurf
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I did one LAST test. (original Floppy)

Ok, get this;
The game wants Kickstart 1.2 !!!!!! (for the intro to be perfect)

(The fact that it mentioned A1000 made be suspicius and early A500&A2000 had KS1.2 not 1.3)

So, hope you are happy now

Phew. that was a tuff one
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Old 28 November 2022, 23:29   #20
hexaae
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Elvira 2: The Jaws of Cerberus is also affected with missing notes on 060 emu:
http://mantis.whdload.de/view.php?id=5751
Quick fix anyone?
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