Eon by The Black Lotus from Revision 2019

[vulture]

@Photon

thx for the clarification

[h0ffman]

Originally Posted by Photon

Let's see who cares about what.

• Competing Demoscene musicians care if music is ripped off in music compos, and organizers disqualify such entries.
• Competing Demoscene artists care if graphics is copied, and organizers disqualify entries without workstages.
• Competing Demoscene coders, by contrast, get this who cares attitude, and organizers allow animation presented as effect - despite the presence of a Wild compo (which is actually perfect for storytelling!) for animations, renders, movies, etc.

The first two are not in the same category as you are talking about copying, ripping or theft. While you seem to think the coder is getting an easy life they still have to produce the tools on a modern platform for the conversion and the code for the target platform to run said animation on the target platform. But, more importantly, the content is created from the ground up by the artist so it's all original work. The clever part comes from knowledge of the systems limitations and using coding techniques, on and off platform, to make it run right and look good.

I guess the point i'm trying to make is while the focus here seems to be, it's just an animation, it's really ignoring the huge amount of effort the artists go through to produce something like this which is coherant and adhesive, all of which comes together on a 34 year old computer. Yes it could just be entered as a video in the wild / animation compo and probably shrink the production time down to a few months instead of four years, but wheres the fun in that?

[th4t1guy]

Would it make a difference if the pre-render/tooling was done exclusively on the Amiga instead of on a PC and imported?
If you consider the classic Juggler demo, that was an animation as well, but it seemed the primary point it made was that the pre-rendering for it was done on an Amiga.

Aside from that part of the discussion, I loved the demo and it's soundtrack!

[wilshy]

Back to the original demo from TBL mentioned. As an ex-demoscener, I really like it. There's so much depth, narrative, design and more than just effect after effect happening here. And that this is on an A500 with some extra ram is even more impressive.

I'm sold. If I'd have seen this in 1992 I would have expected it to be video from something nuts like a Silicon Graphics.

[hUMUNGUs]

hardrive version still in the works ?

[Hewitson]

Unimpressive. But more enjoyable than their other demos which have a terrible framerate even on an 060.

[UberFreak]

060 demos in recent years are usually not made for 50Mhz.
A few years back the Revision 060 compo machine was running at 66Mhz, but this year I noticed it was 72Mhz.
TBL's demos are among the few that do run nicely on 50Mhz.

These days I watch most 060 demos on Youtube, as I can't (and won't risk) overclock my accelerator.

[donnie]

Looked awesome.

Isnt demos without hardware limitations sort of pointless? Isnt that why they make up artificial limitations on pc when they make demos.

Isnt the whole point to see if you can do things that look beyond the capabilities of a set system.

Demos on accelerated systems seems pointless to me.

[dodke]

Originally Posted by UberFreak

060 demos in recent years are usually not made for 50Mhz.
A few years back the Revision 060 compo machine was running at 66Mhz, but this year I noticed it was 72Mhz.
TBL's demos are among the few that do run nicely on 50Mhz.

I don't think that many demos need an overclocked 060. I had a demo this year and did testing at home on 50Mhz. On the compo machine I didn't really notice much of a difference in speed as I think the main bottleneck is memory access speed (cache misses), not CPU cycles. There were some Elude demos some years ago that were quite slow on 50Mhz but those are definitely in the minority.

[Foul]

Any way to get a WHDLoad version ?

[malko]

Originally Posted by Foul

Any way to get a WHDLoad version ?

http://whdload.de/team.html

[Photon]

For what it's worth. I formalized my view into just some way forward.

Fair warning that this is Pouet, where future comments might make you depressed rather than enthused about the Demoscene. Keep in mind Pouet is not the Demoscene, nor is my personal view.

[britelite]

Originally Posted by Photon

Keep in mind Pouet is not the Demoscene, nor is my personal view.

Funny you should say that, because judging by most of your comments, it's easy to get the impression that you consider yourself the ultimate demoscene authority.

[Tigerskunk]

For me, as a non demo scener it has always been about seeing something nice and new.
I am not interested in this whole 'real time mathematical effect circle jerk'.
If it looks and sounds great, it's a great demo to me, regardless of if there was tool prerendered stuff or not.

How arrogant can you be dismissing art and music's part of a demo, by only accepting math effects as 'the only true form of demo production'?

[vulture]

I believe there's a middle road here. Maybe the group could somehow notify beforehand if the effects are real-time or pre-rendered, cuz, at least imo, there's certainly an additional wow factor if something's coded and not just replayed which, in turn, affects how ppl cast their votes.

[britelite]

Originally Posted by vulture

Maybe the group could somehow notify beforehand if the effects are real-time or pre-rendered, cuz, at least imo, there's certainly an additional wow factor if something's coded and not just replayed which, in turn, affects how ppl cast their votes.

Textboxes explaining each effect is so 90's

[vulture]

I know but....

[BooBoo02]

Originally Posted by Tigerskunk

For me, as a non demo scener it has always been about seeing something nice and new.
I am not interested in this whole 'real time mathematical effect circle jerk'.
If it looks and sounds great, it's a great demo to me, regardless of if there was tool prerendered stuff or not.

How arrogant can you be dismissing art and music's part of a demo, by only accepting math effects as 'the only true form of demo production'?

Sorry to chime in on such an old thread, but after reading the comments, i just had to add my 2 cents. I have enjoyed demos ever since i got my first Amiga. From what i have read and heard in the past and present. Demos are a way that show how talented the demo groups are by pushing the limits of the hardware they release the demo on. When i first watched this demo, i was amazed at the speed of the animations on disk 2 as they were a lot smoother than some of the demos i watch on my A4000/060@66Mhz, but after reading that it is nothing more than an animation, i now know why its so smooth and i am not impressed at all as it isnt pushing any hardware to its limits. These demos should be in a category of their own or along side animation demo's and let the real demos that push the hardware to its limits (like demos where intended to) be free of these fakes. I keep a bunch of demos on floppy that really push the A500 hardware to show friends what the Amiga was capable of. This demo wont be one of them.

[nikosidis]

Sure, there are many like you.
For normal people that look at this as art as I do not care.
I just want to enjoy the production.
For me the audio, video synch is very important.
I also like a demo to be consistant and stay with a theme.
This one for sure does just that!
I love the demo and do not care about how it is done.

[TCD]

State of the Art discussion 2020s edition