AmigaOS < 4?

[Steam Ranger]

Is there still any market for apps made for WB < 4.0? Or has everyone moved on?

Sidenote: can WB 4.0 run on an A2000?

[TCD]

OS 4 is a niche product. The main Amiga OS today is still 3 in it's various incarnations.

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by Steam Ranger

Is there still any market for apps made for WB < 4.0? Or has everyone moved on?

Sidenote: can WB 4.0 run on an A2000?

I do not really understand. There is 3.2 but I do not think there is "new software" that is special for it only running on 3.2.. The goal was conserving the old platform and have some improvements but not doing a new platform. So basically the 3.X software should run on it.

4.0 not runs on A2000 of course. As I understand it last version is 3.2 that is based on 3.1 sourcocode but also includes some backports from 4.0.

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by Steam Ranger

Is there still any market for apps made for WB < 4.0? Or has everyone moved on?

Sidenote: can WB 4.0 run on an A2000?

Not knowing too much about your background, I’ll just tell a brief history of Amiga OS. Amiga OS 3.2 is the effort to modernize the ”vanilla’ Amiga OS 3.1 experience. 3.0/3.1 was the last version from Commodore.
After its demise the Amiga OS had a rough ride.
People who stuck to 68k based Amigas later got OS3.5 and 3.9 while those who chose the Amiga ”NG” path (PowePC based hardware) got Amiga OS 4 which only exits for PPC.
During this era, fighting among devs resulted in stuff like MorphOS (Amiga oS for old Mac hardware) and AROS now mostly for x86 (but revived for 68k by Apollo team).
Anyway, during all this, a lot of people stuck to 68k Amigas (and some simply left Amiga for 10-20 years only to come back later for the nostalgia) and now that retro is a thing, people enjoy their 30+ year old 68k based Amigas. And thats where 3.1.4 and 3.2 happened. Going back to basics, removing the bloatware that 3.5 and particularly 3.9 added at the time while still modernizing it where it matters. (native 060 support, large HDDs etc). (Ill leave out the legal shitstorm that also happened regarding who owns what)
So while 4.0 still exists and has its users, the main difference is that 4.0 ppc is pretty much a dead end as a NG platform whereas 3.2 on 68k is used entirely as a retro platform and enjoyed for what it is.
The 4.0 path can still provide somewhat modern experiences and therefore seen by some as commercially viable but for each day that passes, it becomes more and more obsolete as the Modern platform it once tried to be.

Cheers

[James]

Originally Posted by Steam Ranger

Is there still any market for apps made for WB < 4.0?

Yes:

https://www.hollywood-mal.com/index.html
https://www.softwareandcircuits.com/...bic/index.html
http://www.digibooster.de/en/index.php
https://www.ibrowse-dev.net/
http://roadshow.apc-tcp.de/index-en.php
http://www.ppaint.com/
http://apps.amistore.net/imagefx/
https://finalwriter.godaddysites.com...gories/amigaos

Don't expect to get rich though...

[Leon Besson]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

Not knowing too much about your background, I’ll just tell a brief history of Amiga OS. Amiga OS 3.2 is the effort to modernize the ”vanilla’ Amiga OS 3.1 experience. 3.0/3.1 was the last version from Commodore.
After its demise the Amiga OS had a rough ride.
People who stuck to 68k based Amigas later got OS3.5 and 3.9 while those who chose the Amiga ”NG” path (PowePC based hardware) got Amiga OS 4 which only exits for PPC.
During this era, fighting among devs resulted in stuff like MorphOS (Amiga oS for old Mac hardware) and AROS now mostly for x86 (but revived for 68k by Apollo team).
Anyway, during all this, a lot of people stuck to 68k Amigas (and some simply left Amiga for 10-20 years only to come back later for the nostalgia) and now that retro is a thing, people enjoy their 30+ year old 68k based Amigas. And thats where 3.1.4 and 3.2 happened. Going back to basics, removing the bloatware that 3.5 and particularly 3.9 added at the time while still modernizing it where it matters. (native 060 support, large HDDs etc). (Ill leave out the legal shitstorm that also happened regarding who owns what)
So while 4.0 still exists and has its users, the main difference is that 4.0 ppc is pretty much a dead end as a NG platform whereas 3.2 on 68k is used entirely as a retro platform and enjoyed for what it is.
The 4.0 path can still provide somewhat modern experiences and therefore seen by some as commercially viable but for each day that passes, it becomes more and more obsolete as the Modern platform it once tried to be.

Cheers

Just to add here. Last 4 release by Hyperion is 4.1 fe (Final Edition). This can be obtained for both NG Amigas as well as “Classic” Amigas, I.e the A3000, A4000 and A1200 which have a Blizzard/DCE 040 or 060 with PowerPC chip (Blizzard 603 for A1200 or Cyberstorm 604 expansion cards). You can even use 4.1 FE classic on WinUAE on a PC

Again there are software for Amiga OS 4 from places like OS4depot.

[cugar124]

Hi Guys
Just to stick up for the NG Amiga systems OS 4 is dead but os 4.1 is not there is a thriving community of devs and users out there, for those that are too lazy or so bitter maybe it's time you did some research before mouthing off. Sorry but get really fed up with this OS 3.2 is the only horse in town worth talking about everything else is just trash talk. if OS 4.1 was so dead or niche then why have they just rerun the Sam460? Also with UAE now having a setup that runs 4.1 fe on as well. Please, guys, stop saying things are dead or Niche all Amiga is Niche and once we the old Guys that grew up or were there when it all happened go who knows what will happen. All avenues are good if it keeps our Amiga love alive. this is from a guy who has had most of the new stuff and has the Vampire 500 a Cyberstorm mk2 4000 and had the sam460 too only sold because of lack of room and time.. Amiga rocks https://shop.acube-systems.biz/sam-m...-sam460ex.html https://www.amigaos.net/content/5/community

[klx300r]

@ cugar174

well said :-)


AmigaOS4.1 is alive and kicking on PPC machines for many years and yes today Many OS3.2 improvements came directly from OS4.1.

You can find out what’s going on with OS4.1 over at http://www.amigans.net and http://os4depot.net

[TCD]

Person asked if 'everyone moved on' in the first post. Clearly that is because OS 4(.1) is the highest number. I simply stated that far from everyone that uses an Amiga OS today uses 4.1. While I didn't make that statement the 'FE' in the name kinda gives it away as a 'dead end'.

[klx300r]

Originally Posted by TCD

Person asked if 'everyone moved on' in the first post. Clearly that is because OS 4(.1) is the highest number. I simply stated that far from everyone that uses an Amiga OS today uses 4.1. While I didn't make that statement the 'FE' in the name kinda gives it away as a 'dead end'.

ah well like I said stuff is happening everyday and the FE isn't actually an "FE" as there have been 6 updates since and not too mention third party updates from A-Eon/ Enhancer packs and a very release to our video card driver that allows even more modern video cards to be used

[TCD]

Originally Posted by klx300r

ah well like I said stuff is happening everyday and the FE isn't actually an "FE" as there have been 6 updates since and not too mention third party updates from A-Eon/ Enhancer packs and a very release to our video card driver that allows even more modern video cards to be used

As you might guess I don't use OS 4.1 on a daily basis, but maybe don't label your OS 'FE' if it isn't 'FE'. It's just common sense.

[klx300r]

Originally Posted by TCD

As you might guess I don't use OS 4.1 on a daily basis, but maybe don't label your OS 'FE' if it isn't 'FE'. It's just common sense.

that's true hey 68k AmigaOS made it to 3.2 so hopefully we're not too far for PPC AmigaOS to reach 4.2 too

[Leon Besson]

Originally Posted by klx300r

ah well like I said stuff is happening everyday and the FE isn't actually an "FE" as there have been 6 updates since and not too mention third party updates from A-Eon/ Enhancer packs and a very release to our video card driver that allows even more modern video cards to be used

As far as I am aware Bromigo. OS 4.0 and 4.1 had 6 updates. 4.1 FE (The current one you can still buy) only has 2 major updates thus far Mang!
At the moment I am trying to get 4.1FE re-installed on my A4K with Cyber PPC/060. I also dabble with the 3.x OSes as well.

The issue here is that Hyperion goes really quiet when it comes to 4.1 FE. Last major Update, Update 2 came out nearly 2 years ago? Yes you still get minor updates around MUI etc..

Totally agree that OS 4 has spawned some great innovations. But this is very slow at being passed down to the likes of 3.2/3.2.1. I’m guessing this down to what is required as standard. For example deals were in place to package “Roadshow” and “I-Browse” for OS 4/4.1 & 4.1FE together with integration for Zorro and PCI cards on big box Amigas using mediators so forth.

Not here to bash OS 4. Mangs!

[jPV]

Originally Posted by Steam Ranger

Is there still any market for apps made for WB < 4.0? Or has everyone moved on?

If we are talking about applications/utilities (not games), then in my experience OS3.x is still the most popular, but there isn't as big difference as some people may suggest.

I have made several applications for all Amiga compatible platforms, and roughly said OS3 version gets usually about twice the downloads compared to OS4. From other next generation platforms, MorphOS gets slightly more downloads than OS4 and AROS little less than OS4. Feedback from the applications is pretty equal between all platforms.

[matt3k]

I concur with other 3.x is still the most widely used so if you developing for the most opportunity than it certainly makes the most sense.

Having used 4.x, Amithalon, Icarus, and MorphOS. I will tell you that MorphOS is unique in that you can use it as a modern OS replacement for most things and customize it to suit. I still enjoy my 3000 and use 3.2 occasionally, but Morphos is my daily driver as it has an excellent web browser, email client, and native functionality at a high level.

I believe object-c and mui provide great results at least in Morphos. You may also want to check out hollywood as well, if you use hollywood you should be able to cross compile to all the platforms.

[Korban]

Originally Posted by matt3k

Having used 4.x, Amithalon, Icarus, and MorphOS. I will tell you that MorphOS is unique in that you can use it as a modern OS replacement for most things

MorphOS only really trades blows with the other AmigaOS's and derivatives.
It absolutely cannot be used as a modern OS replacement for most things...

Plex server, 3d rendering, *video editing, streaming, running VMs, anything other than very retro gaming, emulation of things like Wii, Wii U, ps2, ps3, psp, ps4, xbox, xbox360, 3ds, streaming, multiple monitor setups, dealing with large files, using anything beyond sata 2 (and even that's a stretch), using nvme.m2 drives, pci express 2 and above, modern pixel shaders, ray tracing, modern video formats, using even 2GB RAM, using ram produced in the last ~15 years, HDR support, dolby atmos or other modern audio formats, Vulkan, *3d rendering, virtual memory, memory protection, SMP, *compiling of code and so on and so forth...

All typical common uses of modern computing well beyond MorphOS and always will be.

It's a retro system with retro type capabilities with a couple of things from decades ago still in use that it can do reasonably well.
That's fine, and it can still be enjoyable, but to suggest it can be used as anything approaching a modern system is a creative take.

* these things can be done, but in nothing remotely approaching a modern way and at speeds struggling to be %1 of a modern system.

[dreadnought]

Gee, my i5 8GB laptop can't run PS4 games, I guess it doesn't qualify as a device suitable for "modern computing".

[Korban]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

Gee, my i5 8GB laptop can't run PS4 games, I guess it doesn't qualify as a device suitable for "modern computing".

Not being hyperbolic at all right?

And there's a world of difference between an i5 and ppc hardware supported by MorphOS and an equal world of difference between modern OSes and MorphOS.
Can your i5 run a Plex server? Yes.
Can it address more than archaic volumes of RAM? Yes
Can the OSes it runs use virtual memory? Yes
Can it use modern shaders? Yes
Do the OSes it runs have memory protection? Yes
Do the OSes it runs have SMP? Yes
Can it run modern 3d rendering software? Yes
Can it run modern video formats? Yes
Can it use HDR? Yes
Can it stream? Yes
Can it run every single emulator I actually mentioned? Likely, and most if not all.
Can the OSes it runs use large files? Yes
Can it run VMs? Yes
Does can it support multiple displays? Yes
And seeing as you bought it up in an attempt to be condescending even though I never said it:
Can it run most of the games on a PS4 in native versions? Likely

And so on and so forth. It *can* be used for modern computing. MorphOS can't. Which was my point and what I actually said.

Curious what inspires such ridiculous facetious responses when you know the answers anyway.
More than a little weird.
What exactly are you trying to achieve and what did you expect the outcome to be? (rhetorical)

[dreadnought]

Talking about facetiousness and hyperboles while giving examples as ridiculous as the one I quoted is quite rich.

So is making up lists of what does and doesn't qualify as modern computing, when you know full well (or should know) that this is a niche hobby forum and it's extremely unlikely anybody mentions the use of stuff in any other context than that, plusthat the use cases might vary. It really isn't rocket science. And so, if somebody feels that MorphOS, or whatever, is enough of modern OS replacement for them, then it's not up to you to decide it aKshUalLy isn't.

[stevelord]

To go a bit further down the MorphOS rabbit hole... Yes some Amigas can run MorphOS, but it's really a premium experience on a Mac. It genuinely brings those systems back to life, has a modern browser experience (which most Macs lack due to TLS issues) and can run plenty of Amiga apps (including ray tracing I guess, but I haven't tried). Between MorphOS and Sorbet Leopard, most of what you'd want to do on a modern system can be done on a G4 from 2002, just more slowly. I've never used MorphOS on an Amiga, but my expectation would be a little slower compared to my Mac depending on system configuration. And as arbitrary as your list of things are, MorphOS does a fair amount of it (SMP, Memory protection etc), not that that's something I need for *my use cases* on these machines.

And I'm extremely lucky enough to have an Amiga 4000 with an 060 and a CDTV that I've used for actual work, and a G4 Mac Mini that I still use for actual work things (with a mix of OSX, MacOS 9 and ... MorphOS). So there's no need to tell me that these computers can't be used for modern computing because I use these systems for modern computing tasks most weeks.

If you want to have fun on an i5 fill your boots. If you want to shit over people here about what they use not being as good as your i5 because of *your use cases*, maybe this place isn't for you.