Blitz basic 2 Help

[Havie]

Hi - I am trying to get BB2 working on winuae so I can create a programming environment for my Amiga 1200. I have followed the instructions and installed BB2 on the hard disk and it all works except the debugger. My current games keeps crashing but the debugger is not running! I have tried installing a new and improved debugger (although instructions seem contrary to BB2 install - i.e. names of drawers etc.). This is driving me mad....

Any help in getting the debugger work would be most appreciated so I can get on with my game!

[leathered]

Hi Havie.
Have you installed blitz2 on a real amiga before? It anyway sounds as though you've got the debugger installed correctly. You could always try just replacing TED with a newer or older version in the folder itself. For a time I was using blitz 2.18 with an older version debugger because I'd had problems I'd presumed were to do with the fact that I'd simply copied my blitz file to emu environment and put in the assigns, but the older debugger worked until I got the blitz support suite installed.
How much of a game have you got? Are you running something you've made previously or are you starting a new project? If it's a new project are you sure the crashing is being caused by the debugger and not your code? Blitz can be a pig to setup in certain screenmodes for example. Do the blitz examples run?

[Havie]

Hi

Used to program with Blitz a lot on my old 1200T and am trying to produce a new game on my current A1200 030 (I do miss my 040 though!!!).

Found a copy of my old manual although it must be really old as it's very different from the one I downloaded (I was convinced that I had an additional manual (A4 sized) that explained all the commands but sadly lost (although I have both AMOS manauls too). Followed installation instructions in downloaded manaul and Blitz runs. Examples work fine so I know it's all set up right. Have tried old TED and new TED but neither seems to run debugger.

I am running in hirese as this seems the clearest to work in at present. Compiled a test version (that worked on PC) and copied to Amiga and it worked.

Just need to get debugger working so I can carry on with my game.

Any other suggestions would be most helpful (except try AMOS as I', definitely a Blitz person).

I tell you what though, I think that after years of using PC Blitz my brain is addled...

[diablothe2nd]

my Blitz 2 manual comes in an A5 blue ring binder folder, I think this is the one floating around the net in PDF form.

Have you found and tried using the "Ultimate Blitz Basic" CD ? (EDIT- It's on the EAB FTP server if not)

[Havie]

A5 ring binder sounds very sensible - as it would cope better with lots of flicking back and forth. I'm sure mine came in 2 parts - an A5 user guide and an A4 Manual?

I have got the Ultimate Blitz CD and have tried installing from there but the installer doesn't work (misisng file reported in installer log). Apparently the one on the CD was buggy so downloaded a 'better' one from Aminet but no joy.

[diablothe2nd]

I guess this one was yours:


this one is mine:


in any case, what's the missing file? sometimes software looks for "Installer" in C, when it's sometimes elsewhere. on fresh installs I always seem to have to copy "Installer" to SYS:C so programs stop nagging. The other problem could be the Installer version number.

EDIT, to add, you could also try AMIBlitz 2 (or 3 if you're using UAE or upgraded Amiga) from http://www.amiforce.de/ but the site seems to be down atm

[Havie]

Yep -top photo was mine although I didn't get the BUMs - just copies at the end of the manual. I did try to get Amiblitz but as you say the website is offline and I also wasn't sure how good it was for classic Amigas?

[diablothe2nd]

amiblitz 2 is just a continuation of Blitz 2, the proviso from Acid (or whoever they are now) was that they dont call it blitz as the product is still sold on windows, so it became AmiBlitz and is now worked on in an open source fashion. AmiBlitz 3 is basically the next version to that, but requires a powerfull system to use and is not as compatible with native amiga as amiblitz 2 as far as i've seen from others here trying to use it for A500/600 compatible games. YMMV though.

I run Amibliz on both my UAE and BPPC system. there is a sourceforge link for that, google will easily find it. it has a much updated TED and debugger that may work better than the others you've tried. but i still believe your system is missing something for even Blitz 2 and the blitz cd to both fail. just an assumption though.

[Havie]

Have downloaded latest version of Winuae and fiddled with the settings but still no joy. Debugger is obviously enabled as when I disable it and put a stop in my program, it tells me that the debugger needs to be enabled.

Good news is that the program is now running ok even though it didn't this morning and I haven't changed anything??? Blitz was always a little flaky if I remember...

Will have a look at Amiblitz2 and see if it is any better.

Part of what I am hoping to achieve is a fast and useful programming environment so once I have Blitz working as it should I will add some other programs such as an art package and sounds etc. I could do it all on my real miggy but I think for programming using winuae will speed up the process as it books quicker, can be adjusted to testing and will be in a pc conntected to th internet. More to follow (and thanks for your help).

[diablothe2nd]

Originally Posted by Havie

Good news is that the program is now running ok even though it didn't this morning and I haven't changed anything???

perhaps because you didn't reset after installing and the assign Blitz: wasn't effective until you rebooted?

Amiblitz 2 seems to mainly address the bugs in Blitz2 (of which there are many).. AmiBlitz 3 adds so much more stuff that your 2.0/2.1 manual will become redundant. both will do the job, just a matter of compatibility from what i've seen here on EAB. I can't talk from experience as i'm still learning Blitz myself so am only stating what i've read here on EAB.

only prob with coding on UAE as far as i can see is the timings. if your code is dependent on any clock rate of a real miggy, UAE may give unpredictable results as it tends to run much faster with today's hardware. either way, i wish you luck, and if you need anything graphical i'll be more than willing to chip in, cos i HATE sitting infront of any programming language - it just doesn't suit my thought process

[Havie]

Amiblitz works and so does debugger!!! Just need to test that code runs on a normal Amiga...

I am the opposite to you - find creating graphics a chore (and haven't been very good at it since my ZX Spectrum days). Tend to nick stuff from Google and then adapt although quite enoyed rendering 3D models (very simple) for my Zynaps remake. So - yes - may be requesting some graphics.

One thing I want to get my head round is sprites. Back in the day I just used BOBs for everything and didn't know any better but from what I read sprites are much more efficent and quicker althought I still lack understanding as to how they work, how you combine them to make 15 collur sprites and how you reuse them. Reading my AMOS manual, it talks about computed sprites which seems like a cheat way of using them so I'm determined to undertand them properly. Any recommendations?

[diablothe2nd]

Originally Posted by Havie

Amiblitz works and so does debugger!!!

WAHEY!

Originally Posted by Havie

I am the opposite to you - find creating graphics a chore (and haven't been very good at it since my ZX Spectrum days).

Owned a Speccy+2 128k before i got my A600... fond memories of almost smashing the thing to bits when i spent a day typing in a program from a magazine and not seeing a typo

Originally Posted by Havie

One thing I want to get my head round is sprites. Back in the day I just used BOBs for everything and didn't know any better but from what I read sprites are much more efficent and quicker

IIRc there are a limited amount of hardware sprites the amiga has. they're also limited in colour depth too. usually used for fast moving objects like the mouse. Bobs are what usually make up the rest of the moving "sprites" if you dare call them by their modern ambiguous term these days :P

Originally Posted by Havie

Reading my AMOS manual....

thought you were a blitz person?

[Havie]

So basically you're syaing ignore sprites but can't their pallete be almost screen indpendent?

[diablothe2nd]

no i'm not saying ignore them. heck i'm not even qualified nor experienced enough to say either way.

I recall from either reading the blitz manuals or the amiga hardware books that hardware sprites, even on AGA are only 4 or 8 colours (i forget which) and there is a maximum (4 OR 8? i can't remember) that the system supports.

there is, however an interesting article here on EAB about Brian The Lion and how the sprites were done, and overlaid to appear more than the colour limitations of hardware sprites of AGA.... i'll have to dig out a link

EDIT- here's the link to our resident Codetappers breakdown of it http://www.codetapper.com/amiga/spri...rian-the-lion/

[Havie]

Thanks for the link will have a read tomorrow. I think sprites are powerful as they don't mess up background and take very little cpu time. I think using 2 overlaid gives 15 colours (4 sprites only) but each sprite can be reused on a new line (I think) so you can create impression of a lot more. Just can't get my head round this concept.

Good news is that I have created executable and tried on real Amiga 1200 and it works.

Enough for now - time for sleep....zzzz!

[diablothe2nd]

Originally Posted by Havie

Thanks for the link will have a read tomorrow. I think sprites are powerful as they don't mess up background

i'm stretching my memory here, but i'm sure i read something about using a triple buffer for BOBs to avoid messing up the background. basically, you have your front and back buffer, then a third buffer for your bobs, which you merge with the back buffer before you "flip" them?

Originally Posted by Havie

and take very little cpu time.

yes, if any at all as i think hardware sprites are almost solely controlled by the blitter?

Originally Posted by Havie

I think using 2 overlaid gives 15 colours (4 sprites only) but each sprite can be reused on a new line (I think) so you can create impression of a lot more. Just can't get my head round this concept.

going even further outside my memory, i think you're referring to catching the scanlines mid frame... possibly using the copper?

Originally Posted by Havie

Good news is that I have created executable and tried on real Amiga 1200 and it works.

that's a bloody good start if you ask me!!!

Originally Posted by Havie

Enough for now - time for sleep....zzzz!

agreed!

[Havie]

Managed a bit more time on the game today. Also spent a good few hours working on shapes - currently all graphics are ascii characters and the game runs on workbench but the plan is to use this as a framework for Blitxmode game.

[diablothe2nd]

blitz mode is simple, don't be daunted by having to set up bitplanes etc. you can usually just crib the 3 or 4 lines from example code and tweak the figures.

just remember that you'll need to come out of blitz mode to access disks or hard drive to save and load. QAMIGA does that

[Havie]

Have done a little bit more - game has 3 levels and basically works. Have been experimentng with drawing shapes in blitz mode but haven't got anywhere yet. Keeps coming up with errors and is all very confusing. I don't remember having this trouble programming Blitz 2 on my old A1200!

I have read the Amigaguide version of the manual but would really like some more info. Have looked at a few examples and tried borrowing some of the code but still struggling. Amybe I'm just tired...

[Graham Humphrey]

What are you trying to do and what sort of errors are you getting?