Kickstart Upgrade - is it worth it / fishy smell

spacebiscuit · 05 January 2023, 00:33

Is there any huge benefit to upgrading the Kickstart ROM in my A600? I have added a few mods, hdmi output and compact flash drives to play games via WHDLoad. During setup with WinUAE I noticed that workbench is a little prettier when I ran with Kickstart 3.

However what are the other benefits if any, are there any pitfalls I need to consider. My A600 is running Classic WB 86k.

Looking on the common market places I see many variants of 3.x - again is it just a case of the higher/latest the better?

Another quick question - noticed a fishy smell when i switch the A600 on, I've read a few posts suggesting it is the caps - mine look decent (I wouldn't say this was flogged to death back in the day - usage was minimal). I have the case open so I can have a good look but I can't pin point exactly where the smell is coming from and I only noticed it since booting with the case open. Is it a concern?

Thanks i advance.

Turran · 05 January 2023, 08:54

Can't say anything about the kickstart but look at the solderpoints on the caps.
If it looks shiny, they are fine. If they are grey and dull, its leaking.

Bad:
https://i.stack.imgur.com/8tdEJ.jpg

Good:
http://www.co-bw.com/Images_DIY/NEW_...itor_img_1.jpg

Just some random images I found.

Usage of the machine in the past plays little into this. Its more the age of poor quality caps.
The fishy smell is most certainly from the caps. I've never smelled it like that though. Only when de soldering them. I had a cap explode when de soldering with hot air. That smelled like my first girlfriend.

Leaking caps is not as bad as a leaking battery but it does eat up the traces underneath and the longer you wait, the larger the chance of something happening or tearing of a pad when trying to remove them.

NorthWay · 05 January 2023, 12:58

I was once gifted an A3000D keyboard that smelled like catpee. Bad caps I was told.

jbenam · 05 January 2023, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacebiscuit

Is there any huge benefit to upgrading the Kickstart ROM in my A600? I have added a few mods, hdmi output and compact flash drives to play games via WHDLoad. During setup with WinUAE I noticed that workbench is a little prettier when I ran with Kickstart 3.

If you don’t particularly care about loading games from floppies, go ahead and enjoy the benefits from having an upgraded kickstart. IMHO I would skip straight to 3.2 since it’s the one that gives the most benefits. You will have to upgrade to AmigaOS3.2, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacebiscuit

However what are the other benefits if any, are there any pitfalls I need to consider. My A600 is running Classic WB 86k.

ClassicWB won’t like the upgrade to 3.2, and it hasn’t been updated in ages. If you’re not comfortable reinstalling AmigaOS from scratch, keep your current WB/KS combo. If you’re just playing games and you don’t have any particular issues with your use then you won’t see any particular benefits in upgrading.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacebiscuit

Another quick question - noticed a fishy smell when i switch the A600 on, I've read a few posts suggesting it is the caps - mine look decent (I wouldn't say this was flogged to death back in the day - usage was minimal). I have the case open so I can have a good look but I can't pin point exactly where the smell is coming from and I only noticed it since booting with the case open. Is it a concern?

Thanks i advance.

It’s time for a recap - better to act sooner than later since it might start eating tracks / vias and it will cost more as it will be a lengthier repair.

itsmedoofer · 05 January 2023, 13:19

If you have money to spend, I would get a recap first, a basic one will cost about the same as OS3.2.. If you are in the UK I can recommend Retropassion & Mutant Catapillar...

spacebiscuit · 05 January 2023, 18:21

These are my caps:

I'm not sure if the photos reveal anything or not. I was going to try recapping myself, I've changed a few caps in a TV and audio equipment before but this looks like too fine work for me to attempt so worth paying for a professional service I think.

r.cade · 05 January 2023, 18:46

Guaranteed they are leaking. Get them cleaned up and replaced.

Predseda · 05 January 2023, 20:23

Z221 is already green from oxidation I'd say, as well as legs of U12.

spacebiscuit · 05 January 2023, 20:52

It's going off for a cap replacement then! Is avoidance of usage recommnended until this has been done?

Turran · 05 January 2023, 22:28

No, does not make a difference. Keep using it.

idrougge · 06 January 2023, 01:44

The smell is a dead giveaway. It is high time that those capacitors are replaced if they smell, and pray that they have not already corroded the PCB.

Do make sure that the serviceman does a thorough cleanup under the capacitors, or the remnants will continue to eat away at your motherboard.

xc8 · 06 January 2023, 10:35

as the others write, recap , also check the PSU for leaked caps, mine came with unstable 5v rail, one cap leaked there and messed up the nearby potentiometer.

Predseda · 06 January 2023, 10:39

Also - A600 mobo is probably the most difficult to repair if the traces are eaten due to the high density of tiny traces.

spacebiscuit · 06 January 2023, 17:37

Thanks - really helpful and insightful comments. I'm really encouraged with the community here and it only inspires me to mod and restore my A600 more!

I'm going to do the caps in the PSU myself, trying to find a list of caps required, the most comprehensive list I can found is here:

http://blog.worldofjani.com/?p=5695

But my model is a 391029-02 which isn't listed, it is similar to the first on the above blog but that is the 03 variant. Anyone know the caps for my earlier 02?

xc8 · 06 January 2023, 18:08

mine is as well the 391029-02 (note: Speedy Tech STP 101 board) , alas the only schematic/info I managed to find is https://github.com/bondsan-github/Amiga-power-supply, be aware that schematic may be completely different than yours, thanks to commodore's practice to use whatever components they had on stock...so even the same part nr does not mean the same PSU inside the box , nice eh?

I did not replace all of the caps on my PSU, just one that was leaked, others were 'ok' - according to my ESR70 meter.

spacebiscuit · 06 January 2023, 18:18

Interesting, the image of the bottom of the PSU is totally different to mine:

https://github.com/bondsan-github/Am...ase_bottom.JPG

I have no mention of A500/A600 and mine if made in India.

xc8 · 06 January 2023, 18:26

BTW, there are versions of 391029-02 that are not repairable -potted PSU, easy to spot: potted ones have no ventilation grilles.

spacebiscuit · 13 January 2023, 18:37

I opened up my A600 PSU (391029-02) and I've identified the caps:

400v 33uf
10v 1000uf x2
35v 220uf
50v 1uf
35v
47uf x2
35v 2uf

Hopefully this might help others.

05 January 2023, 00:33	#1
spacebiscuit Registered User Join Date: Jul 2022 Location: UK Posts: 134	Kickstart Upgrade - is it worth it / fishy smell Is there any huge benefit to upgrading the Kickstart ROM in my A600? I have added a few mods, hdmi output and compact flash drives to play games via WHDLoad. During setup with WinUAE I noticed that workbench is a little prettier when I ran with Kickstart 3. However what are the other benefits if any, are there any pitfalls I need to consider. My A600 is running Classic WB 86k. Looking on the common market places I see many variants of 3.x - again is it just a case of the higher/latest the better? Another quick question - noticed a fishy smell when i switch the A600 on, I've read a few posts suggesting it is the caps - mine look decent (I wouldn't say this was flogged to death back in the day - usage was minimal). I have the case open so I can have a good look but I can't pin point exactly where the smell is coming from and I only noticed it since booting with the case open. Is it a concern? Thanks i advance.

05 January 2023, 08:54	#2
Turran Moderator Join Date: May 2012 Location: Stockholm / Sweden Age: 49 Posts: 1,575	Can't say anything about the kickstart but look at the solderpoints on the caps. If it looks shiny, they are fine. If they are grey and dull, its leaking. Bad: https://i.stack.imgur.com/8tdEJ.jpg Good: http://www.co-bw.com/Images_DIY/NEW_...itor_img_1.jpg Just some random images I found. Usage of the machine in the past plays little into this. Its more the age of poor quality caps. The fishy smell is most certainly from the caps. I've never smelled it like that though. Only when de soldering them. I had a cap explode when de soldering with hot air. That smelled like my first girlfriend. Leaking caps is not as bad as a leaking battery but it does eat up the traces underneath and the longer you wait, the larger the chance of something happening or tearing of a pad when trying to remove them. Last edited by Turran; 05 January 2023 at 08:59.

06 January 2023, 17:37	#14
spacebiscuit Registered User Join Date: Jul 2022 Location: UK Posts: 134	Thanks - really helpful and insightful comments. I'm really encouraged with the community here and it only inspires me to mod and restore my A600 more! I'm going to do the caps in the PSU myself, trying to find a list of caps required, the most comprehensive list I can found is here: http://blog.worldofjani.com/?p=5695 But my model is a 391029-02 which isn't listed, it is similar to the first on the above blog but that is the 03 variant. Anyone know the caps for my earlier 02? Last edited by spacebiscuit; 06 January 2023 at 18:15.

06 January 2023, 18:08	#15
xc8 no c= no fun Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 313	mine is as well the 391029-02 (note: Speedy Tech STP 101 board) , alas the only schematic/info I managed to find is https://github.com/bondsan-github/Amiga-power-supply, be aware that schematic may be completely different than yours, thanks to commodore's practice to use whatever components they had on stock...so even the same part nr does not mean the same PSU inside the box , nice eh? I did not replace all of the caps on my PSU, just one that was leaked, others were 'ok' - according to my ESR70 meter. Last edited by xc8; 06 January 2023 at 18:14. Reason: additional info

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
ACA1221ec - Worth the upgrade?	Geon106	support.Hardware	6	27 February 2021 17:36
A1200 vampire question - worth upgrade ?	pubzombie	New to Emulation or Amiga scene	21	18 June 2019 12:51
GVP 4.13 -> 4.15 ROM upgrade. Worth it?	christopherpm	support.Hardware	1	15 August 2013 12:51
030 - 040 upgrade, worth it?	fitzsteve	support.Hardware	42	22 April 2010 09:22
is a 1MB ram upgrade worth it?	SWOS	Retrogaming General Discussion	15	13 June 2007 22:49

05 January 2023, 12:58	#3
NorthWay Registered User Join Date: May 2013 Location: Grimstad / Norway Posts: 839	I was once gifted an A3000D keyboard that smelled like catpee. Bad caps I was told.

05 January 2023, 13:19	#5
itsmedoofer Registered User Join Date: May 2021 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 124	If you have money to spend, I would get a recap first, a basic one will cost about the same as OS3.2.. If you are in the UK I can recommend Retropassion & Mutant Catapillar...

05 January 2023, 18:21	#6
spacebiscuit Registered User Join Date: Jul 2022 Location: UK Posts: 134	These are my caps: I'm not sure if the photos reveal anything or not. I was going to try recapping myself, I've changed a few caps in a TV and audio equipment before but this looks like too fine work for me to attempt so worth paying for a professional service I think.

05 January 2023, 18:46	#7
r.cade Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Augusta, Georgia, USA Posts: 550	Guaranteed they are leaking. Get them cleaned up and replaced.

05 January 2023, 20:23	#8
Predseda Puttymoon inhabitant Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tromaville Age: 46 Posts: 7,545	Z221 is already green from oxidation I'd say, as well as legs of U12.

05 January 2023, 20:52	#9
spacebiscuit Registered User Join Date: Jul 2022 Location: UK Posts: 134	It's going off for a cap replacement then! Is avoidance of usage recommnended until this has been done?

05 January 2023, 22:28	#10
Turran Moderator Join Date: May 2012 Location: Stockholm / Sweden Age: 49 Posts: 1,575	No, does not make a difference. Keep using it.

06 January 2023, 01:44	#11
idrougge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 4,335	The smell is a dead giveaway. It is high time that those capacitors are replaced if they smell, and pray that they have not already corroded the PCB. Do make sure that the serviceman does a thorough cleanup under the capacitors, or the remnants will continue to eat away at your motherboard.

06 January 2023, 10:35	#12
xc8 no c= no fun Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 313	as the others write, recap , also check the PSU for leaked caps, mine came with unstable 5v rail, one cap leaked there and messed up the nearby potentiometer.

06 January 2023, 10:39	#13
Predseda Puttymoon inhabitant Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tromaville Age: 46 Posts: 7,545	Also - A600 mobo is probably the most difficult to repair if the traces are eaten due to the high density of tiny traces.

06 January 2023, 18:18	#16
spacebiscuit Registered User Join Date: Jul 2022 Location: UK Posts: 134	Interesting, the image of the bottom of the PSU is totally different to mine: https://github.com/bondsan-github/Am...ase_bottom.JPG I have no mention of A500/A600 and mine if made in India.

06 January 2023, 18:26	#17
xc8 no c= no fun Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 313	BTW, there are versions of 391029-02 that are not repairable -potted PSU, easy to spot: potted ones have no ventilation grilles.

13 January 2023, 18:37	#18
spacebiscuit Registered User Join Date: Jul 2022 Location: UK Posts: 134	I opened up my A600 PSU (391029-02) and I've identified the caps: 400v 33uf 10v 1000uf x2 35v 220uf 50v 1uf 35v 47uf x2 35v 2uf Hopefully this might help others.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)