Next game to port?

[dlfrsilver]

Here are informations i found regarding the Rom Offsets and main ram offset for Final Fight arcade :

800000 (b) Input 2P
800001 (b) Input 1P

Input bit mask: X321 UDLR
X = unused, but might correspond to JAMMA button 4? Might warrant testing.
3 = JAMMA Button 3 (referred to as a cheat button in MAME, triggers SUPER attack in "Japan Hack")
2 = JAMMA Button 2 (Jump)
1 = JAMMA Button 1 (Attack)
U = Joy Up
D = Joy Down
L = Joy Left
R = Joy Right

800018 (b) Other Inputs

Other Inputs bit mask: XS21 XXAB

x = unknown or unused
2 = 2P Start
1 = 1P Start
A = 2P Coin
B = 1P Coin
S = Service Mode toggle

80001A Dip Switch A
80001C Dip Switch B
80001E Dip Switch C

========
VRAM MAP
========
OBJ: 900000
SCROLL 1: 908000
SCROLL 2: 90C000
SCROLL 3: 910000
Palettes: 914000

Base B Registers: 800140

WORK RAM MAP:

FF86e8 to FD90a7 Enemy memory regions, c0 bytes each, 13 slots

FF90a8 to FF9527 Weapons, c0 bytes each, 6 slots

FF9528 to FF9B27 Boss memory, c0 bytes each, 8 slots

FF9B28 to FFB0E8 Different game play handlers memory, such as perfect bonus draw or bonus winner draw handlers, $1d slots

FF13A8 (l) Offset of current target's namebar data

Player 1 input: ffff805c
Player 2 input: ffff805e

Player active flags: ff807f (1 for p1, 2 for p2, 3 both)

FF0740 to FF0FFF Top level entity stacks
FF1000 to FF10FF Entity manager entity table
FF1100 to FF110F Entity manager control ram

FF1244 to F1284 P2 top level entity work ram

FF13A8 (l) Offset of 1P current target's namebar data

---------------------
CHARSEL RAM
---------------------
FF1514 (b) Bit flags for which players are making a selection: xxxx x321
FF151E (w) Charsel countdown timer
FF1520 (b) Bit flags for active players: xxxx x321
FF1525 (b) Charsel 1P base addr and character selection (00 = Guy, 02 = Cody, 04 = Haggar)
FF152D (b) Charsel 2P base addr and character selection (00 = Guy, 02 = Cody, 04 = Haggar)
---------------------

FF1576 Start of dynamite scene main work ram ($80 bytes)
FF15F6 Start of dynamite scene p1 draw handler work ram ($30 bytes)
FF1626 Start of dynamite scene p2 draw handler work ram ($30 bytes)

FF8000 (w) Program state, 0 is menu, 2 char select, 6 game play, only game play continually hits game_state jump
FF800A (w) Frame counter for Region Warning Screen.

FF801E (w) score table fifo tail
FF8020 (w) score table fifo head

FF804c (b) Inserted credits
FF805A (b) Combined player start button data
FF805C (b) Controller Inputs 1P, current frame (gets copied to 1P RAM during active gameplay)
FF805D (b) Controller inputs 1P, previous frame
FF805E (b) Controller Inputs 2P, current frame (gets copied to 2P RAM during active gameplay)
FF805F (b) Controller Inputs 2P, previous frame

FF8064 (b) Dip switch B mirror
FF8065 (b) Dip switch A mirror
FF8067 (b) Dip switch C mirror

FF807E (b) Non zero = Free play!
FF807f (b) Active player bits, bit 0 - p1, bit 1 - p2

FF8082 (b) Game started.
Cleared after memtest (xref: 1705A, 170FC)
Set when 1P/2P Start pressed at title (xref: 1182)
FF8084 (b) Debug switch (0 = disabled, >0 = enabled)
FF808D (b) Unknown, cleared at end of clear_all_layers (xref $2652)
FF808E (b) Service Mode Menu? Needs verification.

FF80A6 (w) Frame counter
FF80A8 (w) DIFFICULTY A setting. Increments when DIFFICULTY A Counter reaches max value.
FF80AC (w) DIFFICULTY B setting. Normally can only be set at power-on via dip switches.
FF80AF (b) Time counter
FF80B0 (w) Time counter microseconds. Counts up to 01E0 before Time decrements and microseconds roll back to 0.
FF80BA (w) Default TIME value for current sublevel
FF80BE (b) Level ID
FF80BF (b) Sublevel ID

FF80E0 (l) Address pointer for something to do with player inputs in VRAM. Seems to always be 91C000 (xref 2B76)
FF80E4 (l) Address pointer relating to 1P inputs in VRAM. Seems to always be 920000.

FF80F4 (l) Address pointer relating to 2P inputs in VRAM. Seems to always be 928000.

FF8114 (w) DIFFICULTY A Counter. When max value reached, DIFFICULTY A is incremented by 1 and counter is reset.
FF8116 (b) Player scrolling enabled/disabled. 00 = enabled, 01 = disabled. Used in some demo sequences.

FF8122 (b) Bonus stage active flag
FF8123 (b) Uknown, checked as condition to not run difficulty handler (code xref 52FE). Is cleared on new sublevel load (including new level load)
FF812A (b) Gameplay demo switch, sublevel intro (00 = not in demo, 01 = in demo)
FF812B (b) A flag used during the Uptown elevator demo
FF8129 (b) Gameplay demo switch, sublevel outro (00 = not in demo, 01 = in demo, FF = signal demo end?)

FF812e (w) Memory location of active boss

FF8204 to FF8283 (tbl) Score fifo, 128 bytes

FF8284 to FF8304 (tbl) 1P statusbar target queue table. 8 byte entries.
word 0 = offset of target's mem region from FF0000. This word cleared after bar is drawn.
word 1 = target current health
word 2 = target previous health
word 3 = target max health

FF8304 to FF8384 (tbl) 2P statusbar target queue table. Same format at 1P's.

FF8384 (w) 1P statusbar target queue head pointer
FF8386 (w) 1P statusbar target queue tail pointer
FF8388 (w) 2P statusbar target queue head pointer
FF838A (w) 2P statusbar target queue tail pointer

FF840C (w) Level scroll RAM base address
FF840E (b) Level scroll state0

FF8412 (l) Level scroll X-pos
FF8416 (l) Level scroll Y-pos

FF8436 (w) Level scroll X current limit (for enemy gates, etc)

FF845A (w) Preserved level scroll X-pos
FF845C (w) Preserved level scroll Y-pos

FF850C (l) Pointer to 1st place High Score
FF8510 (l) Pointer to 2nd place High Score
FF8514 (l) Pointer to 3rd place High Score
FF8518 (l) Pointer to 4th place High Score (obsolete, not calculated)
FF851C (l) Pointer to 5th place High Score (obsolete, not calculated)

HIGH SCORE TABLE
8 byte entries. A A A A B B B X
A = Score digits in nybbles
B = ASCII initials
X = unused

FF8520 (l) High Score Entry 1 - Points (Default 1ST. 20000 PTS NIN)
FF8524 (l) High Score Entry 1 - Initials (Default 1ST. 20000 PTS NIN)
FF8528 (l) High Score Entry 2 - Points (Default 2ND. 19000 PTS KNK)
FF852C (l) High Score Entry 2 - Initials (Default 2ND. 19000 PTS KNK)
FF8530 (l) High Score Entry 3 - Points (Default 3RD. 18000 PTS SIN)
FF8534 (l) High Score Entry 3 - Initials (Default 3RD. 18000 PTS SIN)
FF8538 (l) High Score Entry 4 - Points (Unused Default 4TH. 17000 PTS CAP)
FF853C (l) High Score Entry 4 - Initials (Unused Default 4TH. 17000 PTS CAP)
FF8540 (l) High Score Entry 5 - Points (Unused Default 5TH. 16000 PTS CAP)
FF8544 (l) High Score Entry 5 - Initials (Unused Default 5TH. 16000 PTS CAP)

PLAYER 1 RAM - C0 bytes long

FF8568 (b) 1P RAM start/1P Active Status (00 = inactive, non-zero = active)
FF856A (b) 1P state0 ; Offset for state machine
00 = Just initialized
02 = Normal gameplay
04 = Dead
06 = Game Over/Uninit entity
08 = Level Intro Demo Mode
0A = Level Outro Demo Mode
0C = ?
FF856B (b) 1P state1
FF856C (b) 1P state2
FF856D (b) 1P state3

FF856E (w) 1P X-pos
FF8570 (b) 1P X-pos micropixel

FF8572 (w) 1P Y-pos
FF8574 (b) 1P Y-pos micropixel

FF8576 (w) 1P Y-pos origin
FF8578 (b) 1P Y-pos origin micropixel

FF857A (b) Player entity class ID (always 00)
FF857B (b) Player number byte (00 = 1P, 01 = 2P)
FF857C (b) 1P Player ID 00 = Guy, 01 = Cody, 02 = Haggar

FF8590 (b) 1P Animation frame counter
FF8592 (w) 1P Animation frame pointer
FF8594 (w) 1P Animation controller?
FF8596 (b) 1P Direction facing 00 = right, 01 = left
FF859A (l)
FF859E (b) Movement direction
00 = up
01 = up/right
02 = right
03 = down/right
04 = down
05 = down/left
06 = left
07 = up/left
08 = stand still

FF85A8 (b) 1P Grip state (00 = no grip, 01 = player is gripping, FF = player is being gripped)
FF85AC (w) RAM slot offset from FF8000 of 1P target grip entity

FF85EA (b) 1P Input, current frame
FF85EB (b) 1P Input, previous frame
FF85EC (l) 1P Score, same format as seen in High Score table entries

FF85F9 (b) 1P intro/outro demo leader state (00 = leader, !0 = follower)

FF8617 (b) 1P Preserved frame of walk cycle

PLAYER 2 RAM - C0 bytes long

FF:8628 (b) 2P RAM start/2P Active Status (00 = inactive, non-zero = active)

FF86AA (b) 2P Input, current frame
FF86AB (b) 2P Input, previous frame
FF86AC (l) 2P Score, same format as seen in High Score table entries



FFB228 Base address for unique entity class 0C which controls Rolento's elevator

FFCDE8 (guesswork) Large table for keeping track of available RAM slots for different entities. Outrodemo code uses this table to get a boss RAM slot for spawning BossAndore
FFCF38 (w) Bossram number of free slots
FFCF3A (l) Next available Boss ram slot



FFD46A (b) 1P and 2P current status (xref sub $61D56)
0000 00BA
A = 1P status (0 = inactive)
B = 2P status

FFD480 (b) Two credits to click in

FFD478 (b) Incremented

FFD6AC (b) Is set during the character bio gameplay demos, but not the other attract mode gameplay demos. (xref (r) 2B4A) (xref (w) 1705E (=0); 17ADC (=1, Guy Bio Demo start); 17BF0 (=0, Guy Bio Demo end); 17C14 (=1, Cody Bio Demo start); 17D28 (=0, Cody Bio Demo end); 17D4C (=1, Haggar Bio Demo start); 17E60 (=0, Haggar Bio Demo end); 1188 (=0, new game start)


ROM:

65e7e - Index table for small text string table

ENEMY ID STRUCTURE

00 00 BRED
00 01 DUG
00 02 JAKE
00 03 SIMONS
01 00 J
01 01 TWO.P

02 00 AXL
02 01 SLASH

03 00 ANDORE Jr
03 01 ANDORE
03 02 G.ANDORE
03 03 U.ANDORE
03 04 F.ANDORE

04 00 G.ORIBER
04 01 BILL BULL
04 02 WONG WHO

05 00 HOLLY WOOD
05 01 EL GADO
05 02 &?

06 00 ROXY
06 01 POISON

[daxb]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

Well there's about 10 standards you have right there over and above say.... A Mega Drive, SNES or < INSERT YOUR CONSOLE OR 8 BIT MACHINE HERE >

If you count all the combinations then there are much more then 10 standards but I think you got it. There isn't the standard. Some people seem to make the mistake that an Amiga is a console what is not and never was.

If a base system in around 1990 was A500 + 512kb then today it is A1200 + 030 + fastram + HD. In fact this was already the case in 1995/1996. If you never upgraded or left Amiga earlier doesn't change the facts. Don't try to propagate the false.

Today: If you do games for Amiga users then you do it for them (if you release it) and/or your own. The target system configuration is just a choice.

1) for most people the Amiga as a games machine was the A500 512k/512K.
Everything that was released after its prime time was rather non relevant. Personally, I didn't even know about AGA before 2006.

Good example. It is just your opinion but the facts are different. Repeating it doesn't make them true magically.

3) If you just start expanding, why not just expand till you can port 1:1 without problems. At which point you can also just use MAME and be done with it.

Yes, why not?! As yourself everybody else can do what they want. You just said the same. About criticism... do you really avoid doing something because someone could criticism you? A healthy normal person shouldn't have a problem with it. If you fear then go the protect yourself way.

As I said earlier, I respect peoples opinions may differ

Of course but don't mix opinions with facts.

There is no fixed base configuration everybody should use. It is just a choice. Sorry, I feel a bit like a teacher telling the obvious. Maybe some people are or want to be fixed in the past?!

[sandruzzo]

Every one of us would like to see the best conversion as possible for Amiga, knowing its power. But doing so requires: effort, time and money. As you know few if any software house could indulge them. Even today its very diffult to do...

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by daxb

If you count all the combinations then there are much more then 10 standards but I think you got it. There isn't the standard. Some people seem to make the mistake that an Amiga is a console what is not and never was.

If a base system in around 1990 was A500 + 512kb then today it is A1200 + 030 + fastram + HD. In fact this was already the case in 1995/1996. If you never upgraded or left Amiga earlier doesn't change the facts. Don't try to propagate the false.

!

What on earth are you going on about, I'm not propagating the false at all.

A based configuration is a stock Amiga as I described above... time will never change that.

[roondar]

Originally Posted by daxb

If a base system in around 1990 was A500 + 512kb then today it is A1200 + 030 + fastram + HD. In fact this was already the case in 1995/1996. If you never upgraded or left Amiga earlier doesn't change the facts. Don't try to propagate the false.

This is not a fact, this '68030 base system' stuff is your opinion and nothing more. Reading this forum, it seems to me there's plenty of OCS/ECS only users still around.

Of course but don't mix opinions with facts.

What are you talking about?!
Every single post I've made as part of our discussion about this topic so far has included me pointing out that this is my opinion and that I respect that others may have a different one. Really, did you even read what I wrote before typing this nonsense?

There is no fixed base configuration everybody should use. It is just a choice. Sorry, I feel a bit like a teacher telling the obvious. Maybe some people are or want to be fixed in the past?!

I did not say 'everybody should use' my desired configuration. I said I personally didn't see the point in targetting expanded AGA. Reading what people actually write helps.

As for being fixed in the past, the Amiga is the past. It's not a viable system these days and hasn't been for several decades now. This entire hobby is about a dead system. That is fine (I'm super happy with my Amiga's), but claiming Amiga developers need to move with the times is rather silly given that context, don't you think?

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by roondar

As for being fixed in the past, the Amiga is the past. It's not a viable system these days and hasn't been for several decades now. This entire hobby is about a dead system. That is fine (I'm super happy with my Amiga's), but claiming Amiga developers need to move with the times is rather silly given that context, don't you think?

I would still raise the target for the most complex ports to some sort of hard drives, though - floppy disk systems are definitely too limited unless we are talking on digital drives like the Gotek or similars

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by saimon69

I would still raise the target for the most complex ports to some sort of hard drives, though - floppy disk systems are definitely too limited unless we are talking on Gotek

Why?

There is absolutely no appeal at all in developing for expanding systems, this is what leads to all of that crap from Red Pill and Back Bone.

The challenge, at least for me is to take a game and squeeze it into a stock system.... anything else I might as well develop on a PC.

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by saimon69

I would still raise the target for the most complex ports to some sort of hard drives, though - floppy disk systems are definitely too limited unless we are talking on digital drives like the Gotek or similars

Agreed completely!
I think vast majority of Amiga users today (even A500 users), have some sort of a HD solution .

[roondar]

Originally Posted by saimon69

I would still raise the target to some sort of hard drives, though - floppy disk systems are definitely too limited unless we are talking on Gotek

Well, here's the thing: no problem, go for it!

But at the same time, all I'm really saying throughout the last few pages of the thread is that some of us (myself included), prefer coding for the low end machines and playing games on the low end machines. That means games based around floppy limitations as well for me.

I understand there's people who want something different, but as a hobby-coder (on the Amiga anyway), I'll code for the target configurations that I like to target. I'm sure there are coders who are interested in higher spec Amiga's that make their own stuff, so in the end everyone benefits. It's not like I'm proposing we should ban the higher end stuff. All this is just about my personal opinion on the matter. And as said before, I respect that other people may have a different one

[sandruzzo]

@mcgeezer

I understand you mate as developer, its' quiet rewarding working on stock machine. But I think with a little bit of fast-ram, we can even enjoy more our Amiga. No powerful cpu, not ridiculous amount of memory, just within 512k-1mb of memory. That'll open the door of a hell of Amiga power. Thats' my 2 cents

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

Why?

There is absolutely no appeal at all in developing for expanding systems, this is what leads to all of that crap from Red Pill and Back Bone.

The challenge, at least for me is to take a game and squeeze it into a stock system.... anything else I might as well develop on a PC.

Well, in example having an hard disk would make a OCS/ECS Final Fight port (the base example above) more feasible (loading and unloading assets), and is not a betrayal of the original format, A520 20-meg hard disks were on sale on 1989, just games companies did not target them because fear of piracy; at least make games HD installable would be good

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

@mcgeezer

I understand you mate as developer, its' quiet rewarding working on stock machine. But I think with a little bit of fast-ram, we can even enjoy more our Amiga. No powerful cpu, not ridiculous amount of memory, just within 512k-1mb of memory. That'll open the door of a hell of Amiga power. Thats' my 2 cents

No, that's fine I mean A500 with half meg upgrade is pretty much standard anyway (if that's what you mean).

I could be tempted to add enhancements to a game if extra ram is found but I wouldn't exclude stock machines.

[sandruzzo]

@mcgeezer

That's true. But as you know Aga its' highly limited by commodores' ram choice. Even a little as 256k-512k of fast ram will suffice.

[saimon69]

Well, i think they want the REAL goodies they get an hard disk - i remember a friend of mine used to render pictures with its A500 and 40 meg HD plus fast RAM and the experience -albeit not at the level of a big box amiga - was already another planet compared to my 1 meg 1.2 (that could not use hard disk natively) - yup, have A500 hard drive envy issues (mostly solved with my A1200)

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by saimon69

Well, in example having an hard disk would make a OCS/ECS Final Fight port (the base example above) more feasible (loading and unloading assets), and is not a betrayal of the original format, A520 20-meg hard disks were on sale on 1989, just games companies did not target them because fear of piracy; at least make games HD installable would be good

The lengths I have gone to to make my last two games work from a single floppy disk could probably described as insanity.

I honestly think the version of Final Fight the A500 got was very acceptable. I have no idea if an A1200 could do it any better... I'm just not a fan of the game but with unlimited ram you can probably port just about anything.... there's just no challenge.

[sandruzzo]

My idea of fast ram, it's just to hold game code and nothing else.

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

@mcgeezer

That's true. But as you know Aga its' highly limited by commodores' ram choice. Even a little as 256k-512k of fast ram will suffice.

AGA hasn't been fully exploited yet though.

For example, I know for a fact that someone has proved you can run full overscan 384x288, with fetch mode 4 and all 64 wide sprites available.

ohh... and full scrolling... 8-way.

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

AGA hasn't been fully exploited yet though.

For example, I know for a fact that someone has proved you can run full overscan 384x288, with fetch mode 4 and all 64 wide sprites available.

[saimon69]

I would have loved a decent port of Strider honestly far better than Final Fight - did throw loads of coins there

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

AGA hasn't been fully exploited yet though.

For example, I know for a fact that someone has proved you can run full overscan 384x288, with fetch mode 4 and all 64 wide sprites available.

ohh... and full scrolling... 8-way.

Sandruzzo, i think that 3D superscaler racer a la power drift, maybe we should target A1200 rather than OCS/ECS so we are sure we can do it