what games need 'full' collision level ?

kirk · 19 April 2009, 06:54

hi all,
any idea which games need this option ticked, is it many ?

is it a major performance sucker to have it ticked at all times anyway ?

cheers

lilalurl · 19 April 2009, 07:59

You could probably do with just sprites and sprites vs playfiled:
Although it is a bit old, in this thread Toni said that (at the time) there was only one game that needed full collision.

hexaae · 19 April 2009, 11:42

And which is this game?

Toni Wilen · 19 April 2009, 12:11

Rotor

kirk · 20 April 2009, 04:24

thanx all for info,

i was checking old threads and noticed a few other games crop up that seem to need full collision, e.g, ilyad, so i wud like to leave full collision on at all times, better safe than sorry !

so any ideas as to how much extra computing power in percentage terms 'full collision' requires to 'sprites vs playfield' ?

and is it possible that leaving 'full collision' on wud cause probs in some games that dont need it ?

cheers

Toni Wilen · 20 April 2009, 08:58

Don't bother enabling it except if it is really needed. Because it is extremely rarely needed it will be slow, no point in optimizing.

Gaula92 · 20 April 2009, 11:18

I really like these threads by Kirk: It's life "Everything you always wanted to know about Winuae but you never dared to ask" for me. I have the same kind of questions!

Aye aye, Captain Kirk!

hexaae · 20 April 2009, 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirk

thanx all for info,

i was checking old threads and noticed a few other games crop up that seem to need full collision, e.g, ilyad

Let's list all of them in this thread:

Rotor

Toni Wilen · 20 April 2009, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by hexaae

Ilyad

Really confirmed?

hexaae · 20 April 2009, 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Really confirmed?

Good question... I gave it for granted.
Let's see....
As far as I can see (a few minutes of gameplay) everything works as expected WITHOUT "Full" sprite&collision emulation...
False report I guess.

kirk · 20 April 2009, 18:24

soz for that, i only quoted the thread on ilyad, soz if i gave the impression i had tried it.
actually, ive never ever played ilyad, but i shall post up any i do actually find but i think toni is correct with the rotor only comment.

Leo42 · 02 May 2009, 00:04

Just being curious: in a technical point of view, what's that "collision" stuff ?

Toni Wilen · 02 May 2009, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo42

Just being curious: in a technical point of view, what's that "collision" stuff ?

Amiga hardware has sprite collision logic ("logic" which is quite weird and it also has at least one undocumented feature).

In UAE it has been separated in 4 categories:

1: collisions logic is not emulated, always return no collisions
2: emulate sprite to sprite collisions
3: emulate 2 + sprite to bitplane graphics collisions
4: emulate 3 + odd bitplanes to even bitplanes collisions

"Level 4" collision means whole display needs to be checked for collisions, bit by bit, every frame, which can be quite CPU heavy. Fortunately this is extremely rarely needed. (Rotor)

Other collisions levels don't need much CPU because sprites are usually very small. (or not used at all)

Only single option is really needed ("normal" = lvl3 and "full" = lvl4) but it has not been done because switching collisions off can be used to cheat easily in some games

EDIT: "collision" = for example sprite and bitplane have pixel set in same position.

Supamax · 02 February 2010, 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Collision should never be full (useless CPU usage, there is only one game that needs it..)

Hi Toni, do you remember which one it is (the game)?

Toni Wilen · 02 February 2010, 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supamax

Hi Toni, do you remember which one it is (the game)?

Rotor

hexaae · 02 February 2010, 23:51

Also "Blastar" © 1993 Core Design and "Rick Dangerous 2" by Core Design © 1990 need full collision.
I usually keep this option on: my system is fast enough.

Toni Wilen · 03 February 2010, 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by hexaae

Also "Blastar" © 1993 Core Design and "Rick Dangerous 2" by Core Design © 1990 need full collision.
I usually keep this option on: my system is fast enough.

Really? I don't think so.. (quick test: nope, not needed as expected)

Maren · 03 February 2010, 18:18

What about demos? I always keep full collision enabled, but I wonder I'd start seeing weird things if I disabled it.

Toni Wilen · 03 February 2010, 18:37

Demos don't need collisions.

"Nobody" uses collisions because they are stupid and annoying to use. Practically only sprite to playfield collisions are useful in some situations.

Leo42 · 06 February 2010, 14:57

Being even more curious: what's "weird" about that collision stuff ?

I guess it's better/faster to do it by hand if it's not used anywhere then ? Why ?

19 April 2009, 06:54	#1
kirk Zone Friend Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: uk Posts: 148	what games need 'full' collision level ? hi all, any idea which games need this option ticked, is it many ? is it a major performance sucker to have it ticked at all times anyway ? cheers

20 April 2009, 11:18	#7
Gaula92 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Spain Posts: 527	I really like these threads by Kirk: It's life "Everything you always wanted to know about Winuae but you never dared to ask" for me. I have the same kind of questions! Aye aye, Captain Kirk! Last edited by Gaula92; 20 April 2009 at 11:46.

02 February 2010, 23:51	#16
hexaae Bug hunter Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Italy Age: 48 Posts: 2,171	Also "Blastar" © 1993 Core Design and "Rick Dangerous 2" by Core Design © 1990 need full collision. I usually keep this option on: my system is fast enough. Last edited by hexaae; 03 February 2010 at 00:02.

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19 April 2009, 07:59	#2
lilalurl Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: France Posts: 3,289	You could probably do with just sprites and sprites vs playfiled: Although it is a bit old, in this thread Toni said that (at the time) there was only one game that needed full collision.

19 April 2009, 11:42	#3
hexaae Bug hunter Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Italy Age: 48 Posts: 2,171	And which is this game?

19 April 2009, 12:11	#4
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,553	Rotor

20 April 2009, 04:24	#5
kirk Zone Friend Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: uk Posts: 148	thanx all for info, i was checking old threads and noticed a few other games crop up that seem to need full collision, e.g, ilyad, so i wud like to leave full collision on at all times, better safe than sorry ! so any ideas as to how much extra computing power in percentage terms 'full collision' requires to 'sprites vs playfield' ? and is it possible that leaving 'full collision' on wud cause probs in some games that dont need it ? cheers

20 April 2009, 08:58	#6
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,553	Don't bother enabling it except if it is really needed. Because it is extremely rarely needed it will be slow, no point in optimizing.

20 April 2009, 18:24	#11
kirk Zone Friend Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: uk Posts: 148	soz for that, i only quoted the thread on ilyad, soz if i gave the impression i had tried it. actually, ive never ever played ilyad, but i shall post up any i do actually find but i think toni is correct with the rotor only comment.

02 May 2009, 00:04	#12
Leo42 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Paris Posts: 134	Just being curious: in a technical point of view, what's that "collision" stuff ?

03 February 2010, 18:18	#18
Maren Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: * Posts: 567	What about demos? I always keep full collision enabled, but I wonder I'd start seeing weird things if I disabled it.

03 February 2010, 18:37	#19
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,553	Demos don't need collisions. "Nobody" uses collisions because they are stupid and annoying to use. Practically only sprite to playfield collisions are useful in some situations.

06 February 2010, 14:57	#20
Leo42 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Paris Posts: 134	Being even more curious: what's "weird" about that collision stuff ? I guess it's better/faster to do it by hand if it's not used anywhere then ? Why ?

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