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Old 11 August 2015, 07:34   #1
toddbailey
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Any Issues with 70ns fpm memory?

I have 16 mb of fpm zip memory in the mail, any known issues with the a3000 and 70 ns ?
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Old 11 August 2015, 10:03   #2
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No issues what so ever.
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Old 12 August 2015, 06:55   #3
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No issues what so ever.

OK let me be the first to report an issue then

A3000 doesn't boot after replacing 8 scm with 8 & 32 fpm.
For an acid test, I went back and installed the scm and the machine booted as usual, reinstalled fpm and same results.


I replaced 8 1mx4 static column mode with 32 and then just 8 for testing, system fails to go through a successful boot cycle. I see disk activity but eventually I get a 8000 0004 error

The oem chips are oki m514402a-70z scm and
the new are fujitsu mb814400A-70psz. fpm

both are 1m x 4.

I am installing these in an amiga a3000 rev 7.5, w/68030 & 68881 @ 16 mhz,
2 meg chip, running AOS 3.9, 3.1 roms v11 buster, v2 dma

are there any jumper settings I need to address other than memory size which (I assume) is already correct?

trying to boot from the 3.9 floppy/dvd also fails


One item of interest J851 currently set to pins 1-2 if indeed the <==| label with the < is pin1
If this jumper is pin one to pin 2 then it is set for a 16 mhz clock, however when I set it to pins 2-3, my memory issue goes away?
So does this mean my new 70 ns memory really isn't 70 ns then ?
ANd do I call the company and demand a refund/replacement or is this just typical of how fpm memory should function
also what happens if I later decide to over clock / upgrade to a 25 mhz processor ? will I have more memory problems ?


aside from all this any ideas or suggestions?

Last edited by toddbailey; 12 August 2015 at 08:20. Reason: typo
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Old 12 August 2015, 10:40   #4
hooverphonique
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check your jumper settings here: http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...uct.aspx?id=22

it's not quite clear from your posts if you're mixing scm and fpm chips?
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Old 12 August 2015, 16:12   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooverphonique View Post
check your jumper settings here: http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...uct.aspx?id=22

it's not quite clear from your posts if you're mixing scm and fpm chips?
Sorry about that, I am replacing all the scm (8 1mx4) memory with FPM. both are 70 ns
and full part numbers are listed below.
I was told that I'd have better luck with fpm when trying to use a cpu accelerator card like the a3640. Further research indicates the J100 and J851 jumpers are used to set ram speed. J100 was found to be in position 2-3, J851 was originally set to 1-2, but is now set to 2-3. When it was set at 1-2, the machine failed to fully boot and reported a 8000 0004 and 8000 0003 errors. Initially when the scm memory was installed the machine would boot fine w/o having to make any jumper changes. I only ran into boot failures when running fpm w/o making any jumper changes. Think I got a mislabeled batch of ram chips?

Last edited by toddbailey; 12 August 2015 at 16:19.
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Old 12 August 2015, 22:26   #6
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Speedgeek wrote a new tool this year

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=78703

With the jumper in the 2-3 setting on a 16MHz A3000 you're adversely affecting RAM timing.

Sounds like you have very marginal or mislabeled memory

Last edited by alexh; 12 August 2015 at 22:47.
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Old 13 August 2015, 02:38   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
Speedgeek wrote a new tool this year

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=78703

With the jumper in the 2-3 setting on a 16MHz A3000 you're adversely affecting RAM timing.

Sounds like you have very marginal or mislabeled memory

My thoughts exactly, I have a video card that has basically the same memory as what I just purchased except it's 80 ns. I'm thinking I'd reset the jumpers to stock 16 mhz settings and do a bit of testing. I just d/l diags, memory speed and testing, I'll post back the results of my new adventures.

I noticed that chip memory has a 80 ns speed rating so, I have to think the new zip are bad or mislabeled as well.
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Old 13 August 2015, 04:29   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
Speedgeek wrote a new tool this year

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=78703

With the jumper in the 2-3 setting on a 16MHz A3000 you're adversely affecting RAM timing.

Sounds like you have very marginal or mislabeled memory
Or someone suggested the wrong part, or maybe fastpage mode won't work in this particular machine. I have the specs for scm and fpm memory that I'll do a item by item comparison. If someone can suggest a few part numbers I can see if the new parts are compatible.


if case you might be interested in the memory speed differences:
here are the results

using original memory scm in kb/sec
j851 read write copy
1-2 8761 12171 6107
2-3 7691 10236 5126
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Old 13 August 2015, 16:37   #9
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Too make thing even more confusing, different a3000 m/b vers have different j851 settings, but the sites don't indicate what speed cpu is being used. is it possible that I am supposed to be running j851 in position 2-3 and not 1-2 and the scm was able to run a bit faster. Last night I tried 80 ns memory off a video card which was also fpm and it got the same error msg when running j851 in pos. 1-2 but ran ok w/o errors when in pos 2-3?

as far as files in the S folder, is there any files other than user-startup and startup-sequence I need to look at? there is about 20 files. I haven't made any changes to these 2 does a vanilia 3.9 install use any programs to alter memory speeds?
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Old 14 August 2015, 01:09   #10
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Definitely 1-2 for 16MHz and 2-3 for 25Mhz
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Old 14 August 2015, 02:30   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
Definitely 1-2 for 16MHz and 2-3 for 25Mhz
That is what the machine was originally configured for.
What I don't understand is why 2 different brands of FPM fails boot unless I run the memory at basically 60%, the replacement is the same as what is being offered in a couple of different ebay auction except it's 80 ns, but advertised to be compatible w the A3000. I browsed the S directory files and didn't see any progs that would alter the system. also checked all the jumpers found nothing.

should I just return the fpm and expand using scm and give up on the idea of using a add on cpu card ?

Last edited by toddbailey; 14 August 2015 at 06:34.
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Old 14 August 2015, 10:21   #12
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the version of the Ramsey chip found in A3000 doesn't support changing the 'memory speed' programmatically, like the one in A4000 does, so that's not your problem.
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Old 14 August 2015, 14:24   #13
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Strange indeed.
I'm actually using the same type of memory, mb814400A-70psz, in my A3000 without any issues, but it's 25MHz and J851 is 2-3.

My suggestion is that you get a decent accelerator with 128MB fastmem on board, that memory will be much faster and larger than the motherboard fastmem, so the size and speed of the motherboard fastmem will (almost) not matter.
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Old 14 August 2015, 15:36   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NMI View Post
Strange indeed.
I'm actually using the same type of memory, mb814400A-70psz, in my A3000 without any issues, but it's 25MHz and J851 is 2-3.

My suggestion is that you get a decent accelerator with 128MB fastmem on board, that memory will be much faster and larger than the motherboard fastmem, so the size and speed of the motherboard fastmem will (almost) not matter.
I originally tried this with an a3640 but no added memory and the machine wouldn't boot. Research indicated I needed to update the dmac to v4. I have a v2 chip and/or update the a3640 from v3.1 to v3.3 of the pal/gal on board. But then the A3640 isn't exactly what you might call a decent accelerator.

Perhaps I should go install a 50 mhz crystal and see if I can use the fpm with the jumper in 2-3 like the other post stated.

On a side note: are any accelerators being made for the a3000 or a4000 any more?
They are quite rare on ebay and other sites and have highly inflated prices
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Old 14 August 2015, 19:47   #15
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It makes no difference whether you use Standard Page or Fast Page RAM. But you do need to make sure Burst mode is disabled and stays that way when using the on-board 030. The A3640 and almost all 3rd party accelerators don't support Burst so this is never a problem.

Try using Setpatch NOCACHE or (RamseyConfig NOBURST before setpatch)

I don't know why there seems to be confusion about jumpers but there a relationship/dependency between J852 and J100:

J100 sets CLK90 timing (15ns - 16 MHz, 10ns - 25Mhz)
J852 sets Ramsey timing (4 CLK - 16MHz, 5 CLK - 25MHz)

If you mix them up you can expect problems with either Page Mode or Static Column RAM.

If your A3640 doesn't work either the jumpers are set incorrectly or your A3640 is faulty. Assuming the A3640 is 25MHz (occasionally someone will try a 33MHz A3640 in a A3000 and then wonder why it doesn't work ) then you need get your jumpers set up correctly for 25MHz operation and also set for using the A3640 clocks rather than the mobo clocks.

Last edited by SpeedGeek; 14 August 2015 at 19:52.
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Old 15 August 2015, 06:51   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedGeek View Post
It makes no difference whether you use Standard Page or Fast Page RAM. But you do need to make sure Burst mode is disabled and stays that way when using the on-board 030. The A3640 and almost all 3rd party accelerators don't support Burst so this is never a problem.

Try using Setpatch NOCACHE or (RamseyConfig NOBURST before setpatch)

I don't know why there seems to be confusion about jumpers but there a relationship/dependency between J852 and J100:

J100 sets CLK90 timing (15ns - 16 MHz, 10ns - 25Mhz)
J852 sets Ramsey timing (4 CLK - 16MHz, 5 CLK - 25MHz)

If you mix them up you can expect problems with either Page Mode or Static Column RAM.

If your A3640 doesn't work either the jumpers are set incorrectly or your A3640 is faulty. Assuming the A3640 is 25MHz (occasionally someone will try a 33MHz A3640 in a A3000 and then wonder why it doesn't work ) then you need get your jumpers set up correctly for 25MHz operation and also set for using the A3640 clocks rather than the mobo clocks.
I edited the startup-sequence as you suggested adding the patch
And I can boot the maching from the hdd however this doesn't fix the problem with trying to boot from floppy discs, trying to boot any floppy disk results in the memory error as reported earlier, I checked the jumper and they are correct as far as I can tell, the problem is a simple google search for amiga a3000 jumper setting yield several hits many contradict each other.

is there anyway to mave the machine come up in either of these modes automatically ? Setpatch NOCACHE or RamseyConfig NOBURST



The a3640 is a different matter, it works fine in the a4000, but doesn't work in the 3000 because it's an earlier version, rev 3.1. According to postings found else where, in order to run this card in the a3000, I'd need to incorporate several changes to it and the a3000, replace the dmac-02 with a -04 version, replace the ramsey with -07 and the buster with -11. The 3640 also needs to be updated with rev 3.2 pal or gal in position U209

additionally, why does the machine boot properly when using csm memory but when replaced with fpm all everything quits working. It should be as simple as replace and play with out the flashing red on black error screen.
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Old 15 August 2015, 08:36   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NMI View Post
Strange indeed.
I'm actually using the same type of memory, mb814400A-70psz, in my A3000 without any issues, but it's 25MHz and J851 is 2-3.

My suggestion is that you get a decent accelerator with 128MB fastmem on board, that memory will be much faster and larger than the motherboard fastmem, so the size and speed of the motherboard fastmem will (almost) not matter.
Can you tell me what version mb you are using & version of the various custom chips?
I'm hitting a brick wall trying to get this new memory work. now that I got fpm memory, I'll see if the a3640 card will work w/o the dmac-4 or pal gal upgrade.
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Old 15 August 2015, 14:49   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbailey View Post
I edited the startup-sequence as you suggested adding the patch
And I can boot the maching from the hdd however this doesn't fix the problem with trying to boot from floppy discs, trying to boot any floppy disk results in the memory error as reported earlier, I checked the jumper and they are correct as far as I can tell, the problem is a simple google search for amiga a3000 jumper setting yield several hits many contradict each other.

is there anyway to mave the machine come up in either of these modes automatically ? Setpatch NOCACHE or RamseyConfig NOBURST
You need to edit the startup-sequence on your floppy discs also. The startup-sequence on the boot drive is the only one executed.

You could try upgrading to Ramsey version $F (- 07). This should allow the page mode RAM to be detected (at least with Kickstart 3.x) and Burst mode disabled before the Cache is enabled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbailey View Post
The a3640 is a different matter, it works fine in the a4000, but doesn't work in the 3000 because it's an earlier version, rev 3.1. According to postings found else where, in order to run this card in the a3000, I'd need to incorporate several changes to it and the a3000, replace the dmac-02 with a -04 version, replace the ramsey with -07 and the buster with -11. The 3640 also needs to be updated with rev 3.2 pal or gal in position U209

additionally, why does the machine boot properly when using csm memory but when replaced with fpm all everything quits working. It should be as simple as replace and play with out the flashing red on black error screen.
Rev. 3.1 A3640s are supposed to work in the A3000 (as long as no Zorro2 DMA boards are installed). But what matters most is the U209 revision:

-01 only works in A4000 (with no Zorro2/3 DMA boards installed)
-02 works in A3000 or A4000 (with no Zorro2 DMA boards installed)
-03 works in A3000 or A4000 (all DMA bugs fixed)
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Old 15 August 2015, 18:06   #19
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You need to edit the startup-sequence on your floppy discs also. The startup-sequence on the boot drive is the only one executed.

You could try upgrading to Ramsey version $F (- 07). This should allow the page mode RAM to be detected (at least with Kickstart 3.x) and Burst mode disabled before the Cache is enabled.



Rev. 3.1 A3640s are supposed to work in the A3000 (as long as no Zorro2 DMA boards are installed). But what matters most is the U209 revision:

-01 only works in A4000 (with no Zorro2/3 DMA boards installed)
-02 works in A3000 or A4000 (with no Zorro2 DMA boards installed)
-03 works in A3000 or A4000 (all DMA bugs fixed)
Finally a comment that explains why things don't work the way they should,

the ramsey chip I have is
390541-04
51-ramsey


My a4000 has a -7 version, too bad it's soldered in place
If I can find one, I'll give it a try. Finding parts is a bit problematic.

If not, then I'm stuck with scm memory then ?

If I exchanged the a4000 & a3000 ramsey chips, would the a4000 have memory issues then?
It has 2/16 mb simms but don't know what mode they operate in


I tried amigakit, ebay and versalia, no listings for the ramsey 7, any suggestions where I might find one?
I also found an interesting site amiga auctions but doesn't appear to be fully working,


The a3640 while marked as refv 3.1 has a fair number of 3.0 including u209
I found a retailer on ebay who has upgrades to rev 3.2, but also has a kits that remove unneeded wait states. Only problem with this purchase, I'll also need to buy a smd rework station and learn how to solder using a scope and hot air device. <sigh> it's only money right ?

I have over 100 floppies, some are propriety and non standard. manually updating those that can is not a solution, especially when they boot fine when running the old scm memory type.

Last edited by toddbailey; 15 August 2015 at 19:40.
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Old 15 August 2015, 20:52   #20
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i have been mixing fast page mode and static column in many 3000's for years with dmac2/ramsey4 combo, generally with the ramsey 4 the fpm must be in the first bank.
If you are buying ram from UTSOURCE expect much problems, i have sampled their zips and 1 of ever 8 or so are bad. I have a simcheckII ram tester with zip addon. Dont put it past them being remarked slower rams etc.they are a simple chip broker and certify and test nothing. I tested a batch of ram for one guy that were marked with 1mx4 part numbers and ended up being remarked 256x4's.

i have also noticed one strange behaviour in a 3000t i had. When running a A3640 in the 3000t if you get memory crashes and odd scsi behaviour,the WD proto -04 or -04 (and earlier)can cause this. Upgrading it to a wd-08 or amd33c93a usually fixes it.

It would make more sense to install some compatible ram instead of desoldering a ramsey from a working 4000. If you need the ram tested let me know, i can do that for you for the cost of shipping.
i am in the usa also.

Mech
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