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Old 03 February 2015, 00:07   #1
vim
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Question Will try to make a Amiga game

I'm planning to make a Amiga game to be playable on a Amiga 500. So now I'm looking for reference material on how to program for the Amiga. The only plan i have for now is that i will use the Amiga Forever emulator as i have no real Amiga and the game should be on a disc image in the end.

So if you have links to guides, documentation or hints would it would be helpful .
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Old 03 February 2015, 00:55   #2
Adrian Browne
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It's good to have a real Amiga...makes me feel warm and fuzzy just looking at my a1200.
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Old 03 February 2015, 01:27   #3
Nekoniaow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vim View Post
I'm planning to make a Amiga game to be playable on a Amiga 500. So now I'm looking for reference material on how to program for the Amiga. The only plan i have for now is that i will use the Amiga Forever emulator as i have no real Amiga and the game should be on a disc image in the end.

So if you have links to guides, documentation or hints would it would be helpful .
It would help if you indicated what kind of coding you are already familiar with: which languages and environments do you usually code in (if any)?

If you are entirely new to programming then you have three things to learn:
- coding
- creating a game
- the Amiga

All three can be done but I would focus on the first two. One needs to learn to walk before you can run.
My recommendation for coding would be to avoid BASIC type languages. It's a bit unusual since there are - at least - two BASICs which are designed almost specifically to build games. But these languages actually make it harder to code once you have mastered the bases.

AmigaE is the cleanest language I can recommend which is also accessible to a beginner (if that's your case). Otherwise I would go for c/c++ and some choice parts in assembly but that can come later.

And by the way, many people assume that in order to make an Amiga game one *has* to know the Amiga specificities but I would argue that this is probably counter productive in the beginning: a game is first and foremost a good set of gameplay situations and these are never Amiga specific. You will have enough on your plate just building the game at the beginning.
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Old 03 February 2015, 01:27   #4
vim
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Adrian Browne: Someday i will be that cool also

Thanks for the reply Nekoniaow . I have experience programming (C++, Visual Studio) and creating games. My Amiga experience is close to zero .

What C++/IDE is used for the Amiga? Is it possible to work on PC for example or must it be done on the Amiga / Emulator?

Last edited by TCD; 03 February 2015 at 09:50. Reason: Back-to-back posts merged.
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Old 03 February 2015, 08:11   #5
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I'm planning to convert some game to Amiga so I collected some info hoping to have time at some point.

All untested

My hope was to find a cross compiler and use it from Eclipse. I also hoped for a gdbserver talking to Eclipse via emulated serial port.

Unfortunately I was not able to find these pieces in a cohesive way up to now. Maybe someone could help.

Something interesting is:
http://amidevcpp.amiga-world.de/inde...R_LANG=english

Sasc debugger, code probe, seems to be one of the few symbolic debuggers for Amiga.

Docs :
http://amigadev.elowar.com/
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Old 03 February 2015, 11:24   #6
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Thanks for the links. I have added a section about the Amiga to my reference site on gamedev. It can be found at http://www.gamedevpensieve.com/hardw...ters/commodore . I will update it as i read and make sense of the links .
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Old 03 February 2015, 13:38   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vim View Post
I'm planning to make a Amiga game to be playable on a Amiga 500.
Then the type of the game will select the programming language. CPU performance is low and memory limited to 1 MB.

Any action game, where you want to maintain frame rates of 25 or 50fps, will have to be developed in assembler. A slow paced game, like an adventure, can be done in C. But you will suffer even more under the memory restrictions. C++, wasting even more memory, is not really an option. Amiga-E or Basic might be one, but I'm not familiar with those.

You can do cross-development, of course. There are cross-compilers and cross-assemblers available for any platform.

Debugging is probably best done with UAE's internal debugger.
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Old 03 February 2015, 22:21   #8
Mrs Beanbag
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i would be surprised if 25 or 50fps cannot be achieved in C, depending on how much is going on this can even be done in AMOS if you know what you're doing, and certainly in Blitz Basic.

possibly a nice way to do it though is to code the performance-dependent parts in ASM and the rest in C.
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Old 04 February 2015, 02:22   #9
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A bit OT but if i want to learn Blitz where are decent resources and tutorials, including blitz itself?
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Old 04 February 2015, 03:05   #10
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If know nothing about amiga custom chips ...Amos is something to considerate before C,C++ I think. Amos quickly learn Amiga custom chips works, then easy c and others we can play with it. Suerte

Edit: a starting point in Amos this may help you

http://amiten.hol.es/foro/software/8...onal-by-amiten

Last edited by Amiten; 04 February 2015 at 03:12.
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Old 04 February 2015, 03:16   #11
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Don't use garbage like AMOS. You already know how to code. Learn how the Amiga works and keep using C or learn assembler. Assembler is easy to get into, just harder to master.
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Old 04 February 2015, 03:38   #12
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Garbage??? Jajajajaja


Check this Amos Garbage

[ Show youtube player ]

Or these
[ Show youtube player ]

Last edited by Amiten; 04 February 2015 at 03:45.
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Old 04 February 2015, 06:30   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag View Post
i would be surprised if 25 or 50fps cannot be achieved in C, depending on how much is going on this can even be done in AMOS if you know what you're doing, and certainly in Blitz Basic.

possibly a nice way to do it though is to code the performance-dependent parts in ASM and the rest in C.
I concur 100%.
I would start writing everything in C/C++ for flexibility and to build a working prototype. Once I would be satisfied with that then I would profile and see which parts make sense to be converted to assembly.

Always keep in mind the 20/80 percent rule:
only 20% of your code will take 80% of the execution time, optimize these 20% first. Optimizing the rest usually gives very quickly diminishing returns.
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Old 04 February 2015, 06:34   #14
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@Amiten

I have nothing against AMOS, but those are not technically impressive examples (particularly if an 030 is needed)... first one seems to just be a slide show or slow video clip?

In fact the best example for an AMOS platformer is probably [ Show youtube player ] - a sample game delivered with AMOS Pro Fast paced and smooth, with a fair amount of action on the screen. Cute graphics too.

Another good example is the Valhalla series, although they are a completely different style of game.
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Old 04 February 2015, 10:03   #15
Amiten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajk View Post
@Amiten

I have nothing against AMOS, but those are not technically impressive examples (particularly if an 030 is needed)... first one seems to just be a slide show or slow video clip?

In fact the best example for an AMOS platformer is probably [ Show youtube player ] - a sample game delivered with AMOS Pro Fast paced and smooth, with a fair amount of action on the screen. Cute graphics too.

Another good example is the Valhalla series, although they are a completely different style of game.
Hi mate, what about this, is not also technically impressive for you?

If also not for you ,please can you show us something you made and are technically impressive to compare?

[ Show youtube player ]

And sorry the best Amos Game for me was made are base jumpers
Also dont forget (backbone was made in Amos).

[ Show youtube player ]

All the best
Amiten


Edit: who say the others 2 first examples I show are not technically impressive examples?? You?? Why? You know what amos Code are inside these 2 first examples?. All is relative. . Thanks

Last edited by Amiten; 04 February 2015 at 10:22.
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Old 04 February 2015, 10:21   #16
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After reading up on the topic and your comments i will try to make the game in C to start with. It's the language i have most experience in. I will make a slow pace game first so i do not have to focus that much on the performance part.

I updated my site with a Language section on the Amiga. If you have links to tutorials, specification or other information about your favorite language for Amiga post them in this thread. I will then update the page with them.
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Old 04 February 2015, 10:27   #17
Amiten
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Originally Posted by vim View Post
After reading up on the topic and your comments i will try to make the game in C to start with. It's the language i have most experience in. I will make a slow pace game first so i do not have to focus that much on the performance part.

I updated my site with a Language section on the Amiga. If you have links to tutorials, specification or other information about your favorite language for Amiga post them in this thread. I will then update the page with them.
Hi vim, if you are C expert or have experience go by this way, C are powerfull for makes amiga games, also if you share yours experiences with us I take a look too. Now I playing with cross compilers way for coding C in amiga...good luck
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Old 04 February 2015, 12:26   #18
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Let's not upset Amiten or this thread will be closed soon.

My point was only that AMOS *is* capable of producing good, fast games--you don't *need* to use Asm to get 50fps--but i wouldn't recommend learning AMOS in this day and age just to write a game. In retrospect, it isn't actually all that convenient, even. If you intend to progress to C or Asm it will only slow you down in the long term. I started out with it, and it's fine to play around with, i still use it sometimes to test some ideas but if you aren't familiar with it already i wouldn't bother. There are better tools now, for a beginner.

If you know C already, then certainly start out using that, then see if you can convert it to Asm bit-by-bit, on a priority basis.
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Old 04 February 2015, 12:33   #19
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Blitz basic also has support for "basic" commands I wouldnt have thought it to hard to convert AMOS to Blitz if standard commands are used i.e not AMOS specific commands but personally I like amos
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Old 04 February 2015, 12:47   #20
Mrs Beanbag
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i don't know Blitz at all but i gather it has some better features than AMOS, it is generally a bit better thought out in terms of syntax, data structures &c. You could convert AMOS to Blitz but you wouldn't be getting the most out of it. Anyway what is the point? I refused to get Blitz when it came out because i was trying to move over to Asm at the time and why learn another basic just because it's faster? It's still not going to be as fast as Asm is it.

Also AMOS has the "banks" structure, which are weird but quite convenient. So converting to Blitz would require converting all the eccentric AMOS stuff like this, including converting all your data files like sprite banks &c.

Fun fact, internally Mr Beanbag still uses AMOS bank formats including packed pictures, even though it is now 100% Asm. I can load the executable into AMOS and call its functions, passing in addresses of AMOS banks to use for data. This is very convenient for development.
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