How can I get my A1200 to run A500 demos?

[Foebane]

Let me clarify something first: I used to own a real Amiga 1200 and I was able to get A500 software to work on it, but I can't remember what I used.

As of now, I'm on WinUAE but I want to recreate the "A1200 running A500 software" experience, but how can I do that? Degrader? I have the ClassicWB install on the HD hardfile, but I don't know if that has Degrader with it.

I know about the Boot Options screen, and I can change the display type, but I honestly cannot recall what else I used on the real Amiga back then.

Any advice?

[turrican3]

you should use whdload demos installs :

http://whdload.de/download.html

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by turrican3

you should use whdload demos installs :

http://whdload.de/download.html

I use that for games only, it ruins demos in my personal experience.

I tried a few WHDLoad demos back in the day, and I noticed how they were different in some moments to their disk-based originals. And besides, only a small fraction of demos are available on WHDLoad as opposed to the thousands on ADF/DMS/EXE.

Besides, I'm trying to recreate my A1200 days from 1993-1995, and WHDLoad wasn't around then.

[chip]

I like this thread ..... always asked the same thing

Anyway, sometimes no need to do anything in particular to load stuff

OCS game / demo run fine under ClassicWB (AGA system)

But other times i'm forced to create a disk with the stuff in it and load it using standard A500 model

This is not a problem when files fit a standard disk

Question remains, how about to force OCS prod to run under Classic WB ?

[Foebane]

I suppose with real hardware, I don't really have a choice. But with WinUAE, when I have every possible configuration at my fingertips, the question seems moot.

The way I see it, whatever Amiga hardware you had or have is each represented by a single .uae configuration, and that's really all you need. No need for individual configurations for every single game or demo you have, and I quite like the ritual of inserting disks, like on real hardware.

I have three A4000 configurations, for example, but they're 99% identical - the only difference between them being the CPU and FPU specified, so I am thinking of just using the most common of all three (68040) and switching to either 68030/68882 or 68060 when I need to. I think it would be more efficient than three very-nearly-identlcal configs. If I delete the other two, that will reduce my total configs to just five.

I was hoping to use my A1200 and just downgrade, but a few demos are stubbornly refusing to work properly, and I think the same may have been true on real hardware, and there's the fact that they will run faster too, which is not always ideal nor intended by the original programmers.

I think in the end I will just use the A500 and A1200 configurations, as I had them with real hardware, and have the A4000/040 as a "dream Amiga I never had", and just put intermediate hardware between them, like the A600 and an expanded A1200.

[redblade]

KillAGA from aminet if it's a file.
TUDE by N.O.M.A.D which degrades Amiga 1200 to a A500 for disk based stuff.

[StingRay]

Originally Posted by Foebane

I use that for games only, it ruins demos in my personal experience.

You said that several times already and I'd like to ask, again, how WHDLoad patches "ruin" demos! I want REAL examples instead of always reading that the demos are "ruined". I for one spend "a bit" of time to make the demos run as close as possible to the original disk versions but I'm sure you can enlighten me what I do wrong.

Originally Posted by Foebane

And besides, only a small fraction of demos are available on WHDLoad as opposed to the thousands on ADF/DMS/EXE.

So far there are patches for 800 demos available (most of the classics are covered) and the number is steadily increasing!

[Galahad/FLT]

The only thing that differs in the demos on WHDLoad is some of the timings are different because theres no waiting for the floppy to load.

On occasions, stuff is timed by how long it takes the floppy to load data to do transitions and fades and stuff like that, but thats unfortunately a side effect you'll just have to get used to.

So long as the demo is fixed to run virtually glitch free, and the music plays all the notes its supposed to play and the graphics display the way they are supposed to is the end goal, most people wouldn't consider speeded up loading a negative unless the demo/music is massively shortened by the reduced loading time.

KillAGA, TUDE and Relokick are all well and good, but for the most serious problems in demos, none of them are going to fix much like missing blitter waits which is probably the number 1 problem.

If its that bad, get an A500

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by StingRay

You said that several times already and I'd like to ask, again, how WHDLoad patches "ruin" demos! I want REAL examples instead of always reading that the demos are "ruined". I for one spend "a bit" of time to make the demos run as close as possible to the original disk versions but I'm sure you can enlighten me what I do wrong.

So far there are patches for 800 demos available (most of the classics are covered) and the number is steadily increasing!

My humblest apologies, Stingray: "ruined" is the wrong word, and if the original coders or people familiar with their work are behind the WHDLoad slaves, then perhaps a better word would be "modified" or "different".

The thing is, I had a real A500 and a real A1200HD back in the day, and even with the A1200, I used floppy disks almost all of the time, and I just like the way they were originally coded to show a picture and play a tune as the next part was loaded in, or whatever was happening.

I consider the floppy-based versions to be the originals, because most of the time they were, I'm most familiar with them, and that's how I know them to run. To see them run slightly differently or even faster is jarring to me, and to be honest, the waiting (and even disk-swapping) and the concept of the trackmo is part of the fun. I'm an original media purist when it comes to the scene. The waiting for it to load is part of the anticipation of the show to start.

Games, however, I would prefer to avoid the waiting for the loading and the disk-swapping, so I don't care so much for the floppies then. And there are other benefits, too, like full "trainer" controls for the game and storage of saves. (I take back what I said about cracks, trainers and so forth).

[Foebane]

My goal for this request was to reduce the number of configurations I have, and I have reduced them from 7 down to four: one for each of the main Amiga models released (A500, A600, A1200 and A4000).

Thanks for the advice, everyone, and even though I've decided to stick with things as they are (), the information here will be useful to others (I hope).

That, and sorry for not thinking before I post and insulting the venerable gentlefolk here.

[Amiga1992]

And man, there's this.

Originally Posted by Foebane

I tried a few WHDLoad demos back in the day

I don't know what "back in the day" means to you date wise, but WHDLoad has come a LONG way and so have the installs.

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by Akira

And man, there's this.

I don't know what "back in the day" means to you date wise, but WHDLoad has come a LONG way and so have the installs.

Yes, that did occur to me. Maybe it's time to stop being so closed-minded and a picky, snobbish and upright bastard and give them another try. Then maybe I could reduce my configs down to just A1200 and A4000!

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by Foebane

Maybe it's time to stop being so closed-minded and a picky, snobbish and upright bastard and give them another try.

open-mindedness is always welcome.
WHDLoad is great. Sure, it doesn't work for everything or in every case, but it's one of the best things Amiga users have in this day and age. Lots of hard work put forward to make it what it is by Wepl and all the install makers!

And if demos are your thing, and there are some that don't have installs, Stingray would probably be interested in adapting them, if you post about it in the right forum.

But again we are talking about emulation. This point becomes a bit silly then.
Just have two configs, oldschool A500 and bad-ass A4000. That's all you need IMO. Oh and a CD32 config.

[Foebane]

I've tried several already, and am really thinking of replacing as many floppies as I can, especially the multi-floppy demos that have always been annoying. Yes, I know what I said before, but I always hated disk-swapping in games, and don't like it with demos now.

I came across an old favourite, Mahoney & Kaktus' His Master's Noise, and loved the convenience of the quick-loading of the tunes, but I was worried that the wonderful reset-part wouldn't be there, and so I pressed F10 to quit, and there it was! I hope this is true of a lot of reset parts.

[Amiga1992]

At least on demos installed by Stingray, he makes a great effort to include every part. Secret parts and other tidbits are an integral part to many demos! No one is going to go out and chop them off.

[Foebane]

Sorry, but I've changed my mind about the WHDLoad demos, and I am thinking of abandoning the whole WHDLoad system.

When I said before that several of them didn't work properly, now I have some examples:
QED 2 by Talent - The demo starts off fine but then freezes on a caption and just stays there when the music continues. I think it's a bug.
Mina Omistan by Movement - The music plays OK, but the animations run over twice as fast as they should, and the end credits are on-screen for only a fraction of a second.
3D Demo 2 - Runs OK for a while but freezes on a black screen a couple of minutes in.

I tried many of these installs, and most of them are many years old and haven't been replaced with more accurate ones. Some authors are better than others, like Stingray (not to impugn your great effort, sir) but as I said before, I would rather go back to the floppies.

I tried WHDLoad for demos (again) and I prefer the floppies. Besides, I'm used to long loading times (half an hour for some Atari 8-bit games, anyone?) Please, don't take it personally.

In any case, my original point was moot, as I have an emulator and so access to any possible combination of hardware I could desire, AND I would've still have had plenty of more recent demos still on floppies, so I may as well go back all the way with them.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by Foebane

I tried many of these installs, and most of them are many years old and haven't been replaced with more accurate ones.

That's what MAntis reporting is for, report the problems and someone will hopefully pick up the gauntlet and fix the problems.
Not a single person tested every install on every possible configuration so your mileage may vary.

With that said, I just tested the demos you mentioned on WinUAE:
- Watched QED2 to the end
- Minä Omistan, just a black screen after the title, for both normal and AGA versions
- I didn't have 3D Demo 2, only 3D Demo

Now I went to my real CD32 setup, and tested the same two demos, and they worked the exact same way.

I guess Mina Omistan has a problem (at least in your setup it shows something!), but you not being able to watch QED2 seems to be a problem with your setup or files.

[edit] look at that, QED2 also doesn't work on my CD32, it's stuck at the "fullscreen" whatever screen text, both the standard and AGA versions.

[Foebane]

Thanks for testing, Akira.

The thing is, I use a standard A1200 config for everything to do with WHDLoad, and I can't go for A500 or even A600 with it. Besides, A1200 accommodates all chipsets. The strange thing I thought about Mina Omistan is that the demo was originally an A1200 demo and it ran fine on floppy, AND I ran the WHDLoad on a standard A1200 (maybe more Fast mem, but that doesn't make a difference on floppy) and yet it ran differently.

This is part of the problem I have with WHDLoad: maybe I haven't got it configured properly, but if the performance is different between our systems and with different configurations, then that's a definite liability with the WHDLoad system. But floppies seem far more stable to me.

EDIT: QED 2 - that's exactly when it froze for me as well, Akira, I never got to see the cute speeding car animation that follows.

[chip]

I prefer floppies too

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by chip

I prefer floppies too

I was trying some out from Gamebase Amiga last night, and I found that I could reduce the waiting time by moving the floppy drive emulation speed to Turbo. That's bad for demos, but good for games, it seems.