Final Fight: Enhanced - Page 5

viddi · 11 January 2023, 13:03

So cool!
Can´t wait for this.
I hope it´ll be released some time soon.

Cris1997XX · 14 January 2023, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howardphilips

I feel like I have hijacked this thread but still, some news:
https://twitter.com/Brick_Nash/statu...hX25q3246iHX1g
Final Friday:

2P mode is in, & managed to squeeze in graphics for 6 characters+music/SFX (HUD is UC). Made the heartbreaking decision to shave off a row of tiles from the screen + bin some cool instruments from the music, but dem's the breaks.

As He-Man says, "Until next time".

There might still be a chance to have full screen graphics! We can't give up yet

Howardphilips · 16 January 2023, 07:02

From : https://mobile.twitter.com/brick_nash

I'll do my best to make FF:E A1200 compatible, but don't expect stuff like more colours as that would require a whole new set of graphics. It'll prob just run a bit smoother is all. Maybe take advantage of the 2MB RAM as well, but we'll see. AGA was a never a goal.
Final Friday:

Nothing really of interest to show. Been experimenting with different screen sizes and altering the code so that the tables/modulos/display automatically re-jig themselves to fit.

Surprising amount of fun for me, but not a very fascinating update.

Howardphilips · 16 January 2023, 09:18

I keep thinking this guy has some real guts, taking care of the programming, music and some graphics improvements all on his own. I really wish this comes to fruition.

sokolovic · 16 January 2023, 11:03

Maybe someone could provide him a set of AGA graphics ?

jotd · 16 January 2023, 11:26

AGA graphics would be toned down arcade assets (resized, less colors maybe). Amiga graphics are already a toned down version of the arcade graphics that Richard ripped from the board without telling anyone

I hope it's not too off topic, but it's interesting to know that a lot of arcade boards aren't built around 256 global color palette like the amiga or VGA PCs but rather sets of 4/8/16 color palettes per sprite/tile/layer, so much more flexible, less data to move to screen, ... dedicated to 2D. That's why most good ports require AGA and may be slow because of all the data copy on screen with 7 or 8 bitplanes.

Example: Xevious (1982) has a 256 color palette (impressive), but 2 layers of tiles, and the main tile layer has 8x8 tiles that can be configured using 4 colors among the 256 colors. But the same graphics are reused, just with a different palette. There are 128 possible lookup tables of 4 colors.

For sprites it's even worse: 64 different sprites with 8 selectable colors for each sprite using 128 possible lookup tables of 8 colors...

So on a global 256 color palette with 8 bitplanes, you can't possibly generate all bitmaps matching all the possible bitplane configuration if you want to emulate the assets 1:1. Fortunately, not all lookup tables are used with all tiles.

So to sum it up, those arcade boards don't cooperate with the amiga... And it was already true in 1982...

sokolovic · 16 January 2023, 11:29

I was thinking of the work that have been done for previous attempt.

dlfrsilver · 16 January 2023, 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd

AGA graphics would be toned down arcade assets (resized, less colors maybe). Amiga graphics are already a toned down version of the arcade graphics that Richard ripped from the board without telling anyone

I hope it's not too off topic, but it's interesting to know that a lot of arcade boards aren't built around 256 global color palette like the amiga or VGA PCs but rather sets of 4/8/16 color palettes per sprite/tile/layer, so much more flexible, less data to move to screen, ... dedicated to 2D. That's why most good ports require AGA and may be slow because of all the data copy on screen with 7 or 8 bitplanes.

Example: Xevious (1982) has a 256 color palette (impressive), but 2 layers of tiles, and the main tile layer has 8x8 tiles that can be configured using 4 colors among the 256 colors. But the same graphics are reused, just with a different palette. There are 128 possible lookup tables of 4 colors.

For sprites it's even worse: 64 different sprites with 8 selectable colors for each sprite using 128 possible lookup tables of 8 colors...

So on a global 256 color palette with 8 bitplanes, you can't possibly generate all bitmaps matching all the possible bitplane configuration if you want to emulate the assets 1:1. Fortunately, not all lookup tables are used with all tiles.

So to sum it up, those arcade boards don't cooperate with the amiga... And it was already true in 1982...

having Final Fight Megadrive on A1200 would be already excellent. That is 64 colors..... An A1200 should handle that.

sokolovic · 16 January 2023, 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

having Final Fight Megadrive on A1200 would be already excellent. That is 64 colors..... An A1200 should handle that.

Someone with a twitter account should make him that (excellent) suggestion.

d4rk3lf · 16 January 2023, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

having Final Fight Megadrive on A1200 would be already excellent. That is 64 colors..... An A1200 should handle that.

My thought's exactly...
And if A1200 is.. let's say.. too powerful for that, and some memory or proc left to be used, rather then increasing number of colors,. or adding parallax, I'd make more then 4 enemies on the screen at once.
Even Sega, that is awesome version, is limited to 4 max enemies on the screen.

saimon69 · 17 January 2023, 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd

Example: Xevious (1982) has a 256 color palette (impressive), but 2 layers of tiles, and the main tile layer has 8x8 tiles that can be configured using 4 colors among the 256 colors. But the same graphics are reused, just with a different palette. There are 128 possible lookup tables of 4 colors.

Is a bit OT but would seem Xevious shows no more than 16 - max 32 colors at once in the screen, so with some copper magic you could do it almost 1:1 on an OCS/ECS machine ^^

jotd · 17 January 2023, 17:21

I already do some copper magic for the foreground font, but copper magic works well only when you design your game to use it (Devils Temple uses it with great success, Final Fight could use it too as there are status bars and all that could use a different palette without issues). In a game like Xevious (plus with a vertical scroll...), as you cannot predict where which color will be on the screen you're pretty screwed, and which tiles will be displayed. Of course in theory it's always possible but it's also super complex.

Else "with copper magic" no need for AGA "just" change the colors when you need them changed.

Plus the port I'm currently doing is using a rather platform agnostic approach to some point. A ECS version could be done, maybe later.

Howardphilips · 21 January 2023, 07:53

Still from https://mobile.twitter.com/Brick_Nas...C-ocXRye4sAAAA
(video enclosed)

"Final Friday:

Rockin' a 288w screen now. Big performance boost for not much visual cost.

Binned the XFlip routine as I couldn't get it any faster, so starting from scratch. Heartbreaking to know it's this smooth without the CPU having to fill in for the HW. ??

Until next time."

If someone with the technical skills and a Twitter account has a way to help, I think it would benefit the project.

Retro1234 · 21 January 2023, 19:49

No offence to anyone but the original Amiga palette is horrible why would anyone remake FF using the same palette and graphics?

dlfrsilver · 21 January 2023, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro1234

No offence to anyone but the original Amiga palette is horrible why would anyone remake FF using the same palette and graphics?

I think the same. Or someone has to get the colors right......

saimon69 · 23 January 2023, 05:50

I feel that he want to make things work and then tackle the graphics

jotd · 23 January 2023, 11:20

problem is if you have to add more bitplanes, this changes a lot of things. Including performance.

Retro1234 · 23 January 2023, 15:16

Richard did a good job considering but I think something better could be done in 16 colour, there are some guys round here who are really good at that kind of thing.

TCD · 23 January 2023, 15:34

Just had a look at the graphics on HOL and it seems it's the same palette for all stages. Tech noob here, but wouldn't it be possible to change the palette per stage and leave the graphics as they are?

saimon69 · 23 January 2023, 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCD

Just had a look at the graphics on HOL and it seems it's the same palette for all stages. Tech noob here, but wouldn't it be possible to change the palette per stage and leave the graphics as they are?

I second that, probably need some more routines though

16 January 2023, 11:26	#86
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,164	AGA graphics would be toned down arcade assets (resized, less colors maybe). Amiga graphics are already a toned down version of the arcade graphics that Richard ripped from the board without telling anyone I hope it's not too off topic, but it's interesting to know that a lot of arcade boards aren't built around 256 global color palette like the amiga or VGA PCs but rather sets of 4/8/16 color palettes per sprite/tile/layer, so much more flexible, less data to move to screen, ... dedicated to 2D. That's why most good ports require AGA and may be slow because of all the data copy on screen with 7 or 8 bitplanes. Example: Xevious (1982) has a 256 color palette (impressive), but 2 layers of tiles, and the main tile layer has 8x8 tiles that can be configured using 4 colors among the 256 colors. But the same graphics are reused, just with a different palette. There are 128 possible lookup tables of 4 colors. For sprites it's even worse: 64 different sprites with 8 selectable colors for each sprite using 128 possible lookup tables of 8 colors... So on a global 256 color palette with 8 bitplanes, you can't possibly generate all bitmaps matching all the possible bitplane configuration if you want to emulate the assets 1:1. Fortunately, not all lookup tables are used with all tiles. So to sum it up, those arcade boards don't cooperate with the amiga... And it was already true in 1982... Last edited by jotd; 16 January 2023 at 11:34.

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11 January 2023, 13:03	#81
viddi Moderator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Germany Age: 44 Posts: 4,007	So cool! Can´t wait for this. I hope it´ll be released some time soon.

16 January 2023, 07:02	#83
Howardphilips Registered User Join Date: Dec 2022 Location: France Posts: 83	From : https://mobile.twitter.com/brick_nash I'll do my best to make FF:E A1200 compatible, but don't expect stuff like more colours as that would require a whole new set of graphics. It'll prob just run a bit smoother is all. Maybe take advantage of the 2MB RAM as well, but we'll see. AGA was a never a goal. Final Friday: Nothing really of interest to show. Been experimenting with different screen sizes and altering the code so that the tables/modulos/display automatically re-jig themselves to fit. Surprising amount of fun for me, but not a very fascinating update.

16 January 2023, 09:18	#84
Howardphilips Registered User Join Date: Dec 2022 Location: France Posts: 83	I keep thinking this guy has some real guts, taking care of the programming, music and some graphics improvements all on his own. I really wish this comes to fruition.

16 January 2023, 11:03	#85
sokolovic Registered User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Marseille / France Posts: 1,417	Maybe someone could provide him a set of AGA graphics ?

16 January 2023, 11:29	#87
sokolovic Registered User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Marseille / France Posts: 1,417	I was thinking of the work that have been done for previous attempt.

17 January 2023, 17:21	#92
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,164	I already do some copper magic for the foreground font, but copper magic works well only when you design your game to use it (Devils Temple uses it with great success, Final Fight could use it too as there are status bars and all that could use a different palette without issues). In a game like Xevious (plus with a vertical scroll...), as you cannot predict where which color will be on the screen you're pretty screwed, and which tiles will be displayed. Of course in theory it's always possible but it's also super complex. Else "with copper magic" no need for AGA "just" change the colors when you need them changed. Plus the port I'm currently doing is using a rather platform agnostic approach to some point. A ECS version could be done, maybe later.

21 January 2023, 07:53	#93
Howardphilips Registered User Join Date: Dec 2022 Location: France Posts: 83	Still from https://mobile.twitter.com/Brick_Nas...C-ocXRye4sAAAA (video enclosed) "Final Friday: Rockin' a 288w screen now. Big performance boost for not much visual cost. Binned the XFlip routine as I couldn't get it any faster, so starting from scratch. Heartbreaking to know it's this smooth without the CPU having to fill in for the HW. ?? Until next time." If someone with the technical skills and a Twitter account has a way to help, I think it would benefit the project.

21 January 2023, 19:49	#94
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	No offence to anyone but the original Amiga palette is horrible why would anyone remake FF using the same palette and graphics?

23 January 2023, 05:50	#96
saimon69 J.M.D - Bedroom Musician Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: los angeles,ca Posts: 3,519	I feel that he want to make things work and then tackle the graphics

23 January 2023, 11:20	#97
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,164	problem is if you have to add more bitplanes, this changes a lot of things. Including performance.

23 January 2023, 15:16	#98
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	Richard did a good job considering but I think something better could be done in 16 colour, there are some guys round here who are really good at that kind of thing.

23 January 2023, 15:34	#99
TCD HOL/FTP busy bee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 46 Posts: 31,525	Just had a look at the graphics on HOL and it seems it's the same palette for all stages. Tech noob here, but wouldn't it be possible to change the palette per stage and leave the graphics as they are?

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