Games intended for NTSC played on PAL machines

[Retro-Nerd]

But this game clearly looks like it's NTSC running on PAL with the infamous large black gap at the bottom!

It's a PAL only game on the Amiga. If you want to play a true NTSC version you have to play "Soldiers of Fortune" on the Sega Genesis/SNES. And both versions sucks. Like mostly all PAL Amiga games which were converted to US versions for the consoles because they destroyed the original gameplay timing without adapting it for proper NTSC.

[Amiga1992]

TjLazer, having a black border on the bottom does not mean the game is NTSC, and it was well explained before in this very thread by some knowledgeable people. Shot97's point is also this, that just because a game uses a screen with a 320x200 display area, does NOT mean it's made for NTSC. If you switch to NTSC a game like Chaos Engine, if it ran at all, the graphics would be stretched vertically and this would be wrong, because this game was done in Europe for PAL displays, border and all.

However american games like Defender Of The Crown were meant to be displayed on an NTSC display so if you run them on PAL (with the border below), the graphics would look squished vertically.


Shot97:
Your aggression and arrogance about the subject is the main problem here. I doubt you'll find ANY message board, or actually any real people, that would appreciate talking to you in those terms. Is this how you handle yourself in real life? If so, you must be very lonely. You say you don't mean to offend, but how does "some of you are the worst human beings I ever met" not offend anyone? To make matters worse, you don't precisely say who you are referring to, so your blanket statement could apply to anyone in this board that has interacted with you in this thread.

Your point is quite correct but you committed some mistakes in your will to prove it. You have been corrected here by a group of very knowledgeable users (not me) but instead of saying "hey guys, thanks, I didn't know that" you went on a rant like if someone had punched you in the face. Perhaps they did punch you, but in the ego.
Nobody said "you are wrong", actually I see a lot of people agreeing and ADDING to your point by providing even more technical and precise facts. But since you seem to want to be the end all be all voice of NTSC displays on the Amiga, you will not accept this.

You basically said "I could have made mistakes but I refuse the chance to accept them and have a normal human conversation with any of you, I will rather call some of you 'the worst human beings', 'waste of my time', take my football and go somewhere else to play alone".

Originally Posted by Shot97

for such a feet.

It's "feat" by the way, but go on and get angry about being corrected when you are wrong.
I'm just trying to say here, that everyone makes mistakes, and it's rude to dismiss corrections politely made by other people.

If any of us got your attitude wrong, it's only because of your own words. A lot of people here are passionate about the Amiga but they do not resort to aggression to show their passion. Look at your videos, I tried to watch them fully yet I couldn't because your aggression is just too much to take.

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by TjLaZer

What annoys me really bad, especially lately with WHDLoad! Is when they create a slave for a NTSC game, and it will only run in PAL mode! (When run on an NTSC system or PAL with NTSC tooltype, it locks up) One example is Chaos Engine AGA. The game clearly uses an NTSC screen mode, but only runs on PAL... and has that ANNOYING large gap at the bottom! Arrgghhhh.

Chaos Engine was developed in the UK, which uses PAL. When run on an PAL Amiga, Chaos Engine runs in PAL mode – with ugly black borders. That's the way Bitmap Brothers made the game, and that's the way it's intended to look.

Of course, the Bitmaps were doing the wrong thing. The game should have run in 320x256, but as always, Bitmap Brothers hampered their games by aiming for Atari ST compatibility (ST always runs in 320x200) or aiming for the (albeit quite small) NTSC market.

[idrougge]

I'd also like to point out that Jim Sachs is a great artist and that his graphics are indeed meant to be displayed in NTSC mode with oblong pixels. The fact that Sachs drew his circles to be circular at NTSC aspect ratio is testament to his prowess as a graphics artist.

[Retro1234]

Chaos Engine seems much better in NTSC - Bitmap Brothers did release some of there games with NTSC versions I dont know if CE got a US release.

[Retro-Nerd]

No, only the consoles got a NTSC version called "Soldiers of Fortune". You can force the OCS/ECS version into NTSC but then it runs too fast for the intended gameplay, music is faster too. Also the non smooth scrolling gets more jerky then. AGA though doesn't work at all on NTSC machines as it seems.

[Retro1234]

I play CE CD32 NTSC

[Amon_RA]

America... bla bla... America... great... America... bla bla... stupid Europeans... bla bla... you are ALL wrong... America... bla bla... NTSC is the best and so are Americans... bla bla ... Europeans are all pirates... bla bla PAL sucks.... AMERICA!!!!!!

Sigh... 😞

I still don't know how to check if a game is supposed to run in PAL or NTSC mode.

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by Amon_RA

I still don't know how to check if a game is supposed to run in PAL or NTSC mode.

1. Was the game developed in America? Run in NTSC.
2. Was the game developed in Europe and your version sold in Europe? Run in PAL.
3. Was the game developed in Europe and your version sold in America? Run in NTSC.

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

I play CE CD32 NTSC

Indeed forceable to NTSC. But then is suffers from the same issues like other PAL designed games.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

No, only the consoles got a NTSC version called "Soldiers of Fortune". You can force the OCS/ECS version into NTSC but then it runs too fast for the intended gameplay, music is faster too. Also the non smooth scrolling gets more jerky then.

And let's not forget again, all the graphics look stretched vertically, which is stupid.

Originally Posted by idrougge

1. Was the game developed in America? Run in NTSC.
2. Was the game developed in Europe and your version sold in Europe? Run in PAL.
3. Was the game developed in Europe and your version sold in America? Run in NTSC.

Great synopsis of what to do.

[Jope]

Originally Posted by idrougge

1. Was the game developed in America? Run in NTSC.
2. Was the game developed in Europe and your version sold in Europe? Run in PAL.
3. Was the game developed in Europe and your version sold in America? Run in NTSC.

</thread>

[Retro-Nerd]

Some games originally released for PAL machines were also sold in an NTSC version, e.g. various Psygnosis ones. With those the "PAL graphics" would be vertically stretched on an NTSC machine. It's very unlikely any developer redrew their graphics for the NTSC version. They may have adjusted the music tempo though.

And thats the backward essence of what Shot97 "demands" in terms of "..showing how the artist intended it". Jim Sachs would have been forced to redraw his graphics for PAL if he really wanted them geometrically correct on all Amiga machines. Nobody did that because it means more work = costs more money.

[TjLaZer]

Actually Chaos Engine AGA does not run in the correct aspect ratio using a PAL screen, if it did run at 320x200, AKA NTSC, it would be in the correct aspect! How do I know? Because the ECS version runs in NTSC just fine! And the correct aspect ratio. Why did the Bitmap Brothers screw this up?!?

There are a lot of European games that do this and I don't understand why. (Bad and lazy programming?)

[TjLaZer]

Fixed version:

1. Was the game developed in America? Run in NTSC.

2. Was the game developed in Europe and your version sold in Europe? Run in PAL.

3. Was the game developed in Europe and your version sold in America? Run in NTSC.

4. Was the game developed in Europe but uses 320 x 200? Try NTSC to see if it works, if not suffer using PAL and that large gap at the bottom!

[Retro1234]

Run CE CD32 version this is the best version anyway
TjLaZer - back in the day did you have many European games? and were they on sale in the shops?

Side note Gods Pal freezes at one of the bossses in NTSC I did wonder if this was some kind of region lock.

[TjLaZer]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

Run CE CD32 version this is the best version anyway
TjLaZer - back in the day did you have many European games? and were they on sale in the shops?

Side note Gods Pal freezes at one of the bossses in NTSC I did wonder if this was some kind of region lock.

In the late 80s more and more titles on the shelf came from Europe and were PAL. some we would run on NTSC (but they chopped off the bottom of the screen) but by then I had the one meg Agnes so I would just force my machine to PAL.

[TjLaZer]

Some games I actually preferred to run on NTSC because they ran faster, an example is Gods.

Ha ha I wasn't very good I don't think I ever made it to that Boss!

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by TjLaZer

Actually Chaos Engine AGA does not run in the correct aspect ratio using a PAL screen, if it did run at 320x200, AKA NTSC, it would be in the correct aspect! How do I know? Because the ECS version runs in NTSC just fine! And the correct aspect ratio. Why did the Bitmap Brothers screw this up?!?

There are a lot of European games that do this and I don't understand why. (Bad and lazy programming?)

You are still wrong. Of course it's in a correct PAL aspect on a PAL screen. The Amiga has no fixed resolution. The viewable Image is freely programmable. 320x200 doesn't mean it's NTSC atuomatically. It's embedded in a 320x256 PAL screen without squishing the graphics vertically but it has black bars on top/button to save CPU resources. Hell, a Turrican is in a 304x215 viewable resolution on a PAL screen. The separate availabe NTSC version uses the same 304x215 resolution and it's vertically stretched.

Because the ECS version runs in NTSC just fine! And the correct aspect ratio. Why did the Bitmap Brothers screw this up?!?

4. Was the game developed in Europe but uses 320 x 200? Try NTSC to see if it works, if not suffer using PAL and that large gap at the bottom!

Wrong as you can you see in the screenshot comparision (use mouse over). Taken from my Amiga 1200+Sony CRT which supports PAL and NTSC modes. Chaos Engine looks geometrically correct in PAL mode while it's vertically stretched in NTSC mode. This wrong pixel aspect looks exactly as stupid as squished NTSC games on a PAL screen, despite the fact that it fills nearly the full screen.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/174810

[Michael]

As a few have pointed out, 320x200 NTSC and 320x256 PAL are neither 1:1 pixel aspect screenmodes, 320x240 is.

DeluxePaint II came bundled with PAL machines, and worked perfectly in full PAL including overscan.

DeluxePaint and many other paint programs pant circles as 1x1 pixel maths, but most, including DP have and option to correct aspect ratio, and when enabled the circles will be 1:1 and not default 1x1 in pixel terms.
Sadly, this function is broken with some paint tools in final DP-V.

I'll bet not many artists tried to make perfect circles on screen to start of with, and it's even more difficult to keep aspect ratio if you are rotating your bob images, in that case PAL screens were preferred as closest match.

You could in many cases fine tune your monitor by stretching/squeezing geometry controls, and CRT Trinitron tubes were perfect for this, no vertical resolution lock, unlike modern fixed pixel LCDs.

Some games allow PAL/NTSC switching in real time (eg JP2 - Robocod)
to get full screen, change speed, match your TV etc. Late PC ports actually have 320x240 screens, and can be displayed natively in such resolutions.