Workbench disks/Kickstart inmages, can we lift the ban on them?

[Retro1234]

The SPS team stating whats legal -Glass houses.

[thomas]

Originally Posted by mr.vince

I remember other games have cracktros as well... which is... strange.

Many game developers have agreed to distribute cracked versions of their games because the copy protected versions could not be stored as ADF and they were not able or willing to remove the copy protection themselves.

I would have expected you to know that. For example many games on back2roots.org have cracktros on them and all of them were published with permission.

[desiv]

I know the versions of the Amiga games in the "Cinemaware Vault" are cracked versions.
Apparently, they (current owners) didn't have non-cracked versions available..

So, it's looking like AF has some games included on the versions that they distribute, but most likely with license of some kind, however they are using cracked versions of those games.

And, Zetr0 is a huge pirate who routinely buys collections of pirated software...


Well, as long as we have that cleared up...



desiv

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Yes, Cloanto has the rights to distribute them (at least they claim they do), but who gave them the permission?

I'd like to know this as well. Seems like this thread has brought up some interesting debate and old flames revived. I hope something good comes out of it for all involved.

[Melonfish]

i swear, if i won the euromil i'd buy the bloody rights and make workbench open source/free licence.
i was thinking the other day that honestly AmigaOS is a good platform to work from with regards to a modern O/S. Commodore are already Reviving their computers, why not buy the Amiga Name the Workbench rights and anything else and start a company to re-make the market.
All pipe dream stuff i know but damn would it be bloody wonderful...

[mr.vince]

Originally Posted by thomas

Many game developers have agreed to distribute cracked versions of their games because the copy protected versions could not be stored as ADF and they were not able or willing to remove the copy protection themselves.

I would have expected you to know that. For example many games on back2roots.org have cracktros on them and all of them were published with permission.

yes and no. i see a difference in what someone can download for free from a website and what some company is selling on a cd. it just looks ugly. but if that's ok for cloanto - not my cup of tea.

however, would be nice to know that the "other" version above turns out to be a fake only.

[prowler]

Originally Posted by mr.vince

however, would be nice to know that the "other" version above turns out to be a fake only.

If it's labelled "Amiga Forever 5" and it comes on 3 DVDs, then it's got to be fake. AF6 was the last version distributed on a single CD and the first with AmigaOS 3.9 content. DVDs weren't introduced until AF2005 for the Premium Edition.

[Zetr0]

sorry guys I was gonna give him a buzz see if he can confirm he bought it from cloanto,

alas its a bit late now so I shall buzz in the morning to confirm.

[Korodny]

Got a reply from Michele:

Thanks for the heads up. This is the list of games included in Amiga Forever:

http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/15-124

What you describe looks like some pirate material, definitely not from us.

Regards,

Michael

[kolla]

Why don't Cloanto compile, maintain and sell OS 3.9 kickstarts?
Why don't Cloanto compile, maintain and sell OS 3.1 kickstarts with update scsi.device and FFS to support large disks?

It's definely what I would do, instead of chasing around anyone else who do it.

And when did they get license for OS3.9? I must have missed that, even though I have the premium 2009 release. Never cared for the software on it, just watched the DVDs, already happy with my OS3.9 UAE setups

[Korodny]

Originally Posted by kolla

Why don't Cloanto compile, maintain and sell OS 3.9 kickstarts?
Why don't Cloanto compile, maintain and sell OS 3.1 kickstarts with update scsi.device and FFS to support large disks?

Because they neither have a license to build kickstarts, nor a license for 3.9

And when did they get license for OS3.9?

They didn't. They licensed components of 3.9 from the individual authors and assembled their own version of 3.9 which they call 3.X.

[mr.vince]

I also got a long email from Michele and have to go through the various points. But it all sounds very reasonable to me. There should be some corrections to earlier posts to point out that the long list does not correspond to AF2009 being sold...

[Allen1]

Originally Posted by mr.vince

I also got a long email from Michele and have to go through the various points. But it all sounds very reasonable to me. There should be some corrections to earlier posts to point out that the long list does not correspond to AF2009 being sold...

I don't think anyone is thinking that the long list mentioned is from the 2009 version, I merely added the directory on the CD where games were as it was mentioned that the disks only contained 2 games? or something along those lines.

The chances are that Zetr0 or his friend have just added freely downloadable games to make a better version than the original disk for their own use, good lord I know I would prior to Whdload and its packs.

How many games do we all download and where do we put them, the chances are they will eventually end up in a folder under A, B, C etc. There are some good things about Cloanto but I really think it is a pretty expensive disk for its content, especially as most of it can be downloaded free!

[Zetr0]

I just got off the phone with my friend,

it turns out that he says he didn't get it from cloanto, he bought is as an original from ..... yeah you guessed it.... eBay...


As c0cks go, I would be a p0rn star* stand in about now.


Alas he (my friend) has been opperating under the same impression I have over the last 5 years and I owe Micheal from cloanto a HUGE appology,

To micheal (cloanto)

I can only offer my deepest appologies in this matter, I have incorrectly asserted that your compilation holds copyright material that you did not get the licenses or agreements for.

Unfortuantely I have been under the wrong assumption due to a modified copy of your works that I bought about 5 years ago. From this I had assumed that all work that was published by cloanto held the same works as the copy I bought.

This is not the case and I am truly sorry in this matter.

I will put a link in the previous posts to here, the way I see it, if I am going to be damnd I will be damned for whom I am and for the reasons as it stands.


Now, whats actually on the oringal disks? those screen shots show VERY little.

[kolla]

Originally Posted by Korodny

Because they neither have a license to build kickstarts

From what I can tell, they must have a license to build kickstarts, since the kickstarts that are sold are altered with a copy protection (a pretty useless copy protection, though). And anyhow, why would a seperate license be needed for building kickstarts? Just like the rest it's just software stored on a suitable media.

They licensed components of 3.9 from the individual authors and assembled their own version of 3.9 which they call 3.X.

Aha.

[Korodny]

Originally Posted by kolla

From what I can tell

Look, I'm not a Cloanto spokesperson. I suggest you check the FAQ on their site, which says:

The various ROM and operating system files which are included in Amiga Forever have in part been licensed to us [...] for use in the context of Amiga emulation. Although these files may be available for other uses as well, not all items have been specifically licensed for such purposes as part of their publication in Amiga Forever.

And anyhow, why would a seperate license be needed for building kickstarts?

Because a license restricted to an emulator distribution was cheaper and/or easier to get than a broad license that lets you do whatever you want?

[kolla]

OK, so it doesn't make much sense for them to chase after people who distribute EPROMs with updated kickstarts on them.

So did anyone contact Acer about their position on distribution of altered amiga kickstarts?

(btw. the FAQs that Cloanto have are quite biased, basicly saying "You dont want to run on real hardware, you want to run AmigaForever")

[mcb]

Originally Posted by kolla

Why don't Cloanto compile, maintain and sell OS 3.9 kickstarts?

We included everything we could get outside of Haage & Partner, but H&P themselves would not reply to requests concerning the code they developed internally. This is why some (not many) files that are included in 3.9 are missing in the 3.X configuration of Amiga Forever. At the same time though, some files are IMHO better than in 3.9.

Originally Posted by kolla

Why don't Cloanto compile, maintain and sell OS 3.1 kickstarts with update scsi.device and FFS to support large disks?

I think you will find what you are looking for in the 3.X configuration. If not, feel free to PM. Beware of imitations claiming to be Amiga Forever though ;-)

[mcb]

Originally Posted by prowler

Here is the AF2009 DVD1 front-end menu, with the Games option selected, showing the games included on the disc:

This screenshot is somewhat confusing. The full list of games of Amiga Forever 2009, as others noted, is here:

http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/15-124

Amiga Forever Premium Edition consists of one CD and two DVDs. The games are on the CD, not on the DVDs. Because it was very expensive to prepare the dual-layer glass-mastered DVDs, we never changed the DVD masters between the 2005 and the initial 2009 version. That 2005 version of DVD 1 contained an "Express Edition" of the old Amiga Forever 2005. My advice would be to ignore the non-video content of these two video DVDs. It is not representative of newer versions.

In the meantime the two DVDs have been remastered, so the old software is not included any longer. This happened during the 2009 version.

At least one of the games listed in the 2005 version has been removed due to international rating considerations. The 2009 list was specifically tested to be as children-safe as possible.

Mike

[gulliver]

I hereby publicly apologize for being so critical about Cloanto and Amiga Forever on wrong assumptions about piracy.

Mr. Battilana: I am deeply sorry, I was wrong on that .