10,000 programmers cant be that bad.

ECA · 12 June 2002, 14:25

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tre...n/MS02-027.asp

http://apnews.excite.com/article/200...D7K3A8480.html

It is said that--"if you set 10,000 typewriters in a room, and set a minkey at each of those typewriters, that, eventully, they would type every book known to man.

New analogy--"If you set 10,000 programmers in front of computers, writting code, they would still have a piece of @#$% when they finished.

Its funny that after almost 8 years, windows STILL aint finished.

v8juice · 12 June 2002, 14:56

Well, if you're talking windows, I think you'll need quite a few more... monkeys. Uh, minkeys, that is.

ECA · 12 June 2002, 22:17

WELL, did you go to the SITES, as they portry a BAD image for MS.
How manny updates, bug fixes, and Security warnings do we have to DEAL with, to USE windows...
Whats NICE about windows, is that they have made themselves a LARGE stationary TARGET for hackers, and Virus makers.
Its REALLY nice that they do this for AMIGA people, and linux people.
I thank them.

Drake1009 · 13 June 2002, 01:35

I have stopped paying attention to those warnings. I've got no sensitive material on my computer, and since I don't give away my POP3 mail to many people I've managed to get a total of 1 E-mail virus through that. Which I immediately identified as a virus and trashed without looking at it.

As for Linux. Yes it's nice to have an alternative though there are a couple of things I'd have liked for it. Like a standardized layout which means that you wouldn't have to download different versions of software based on which distro you used. Another thing would be a better way to get the binaries installed. I'd think that would be more global variables. As it is now you need to compile many of the programs you download and install yourself and usually need to have it configure a bit first. It's ok with small apps. But larger programs really take time. Especially when you're a linux newbie who most likely makes a mistake or two when installing, and then won't have an idea on how to uninstall. (Really had to go messing about with something I didn't know just to install my NVidia drivers since they installed wrongly first time thus crashing X. wouldn't uninstall or reinstall)

Twistin'Ghost · 13 June 2002, 03:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Drake1009
I have stopped paying attention to those warnings. I've got no sensitive material on my computer, and since I don't give away my POP3 mail to many people I've managed to get a total of 1 E-mail virus through that. Which I immediately identified as a virus and trashed without looking at it.

What about hackers using your machine for DOS attacks?

Drake1009 · 13 June 2002, 09:05

Well as soon as my computer gets sluggish be that because of dos attack or just microsoft I reinstall. And they'd need to get the backdoor in there somewhere. Besides I check my net connection frequently to see what goes and comes.

ECA · 13 June 2002, 15:12

I DO like 56k...
As when someone is hacking me, I can tell VERY quickly...
Esp, when Im gaming.. My ping goes over 400, and I shut down the game and check what progs are running...

Twistin'Ghost · 14 June 2002, 08:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Drake1009
Well as soon as my computer gets sluggish be that because of dos attack or just microsoft I reinstall.

This is something I really cannot conceive. How often some people just "reinstall Windows" completely blows my mind! I hate the thought of having to even do it once. I know my passwords for CuteFTP will get lost, all of my configurations for the installed programs (inconveniently stored in the idiotic registry!), the massive software that has to all be re-installed, the settings in Windows (desktop display, etc.) - there's just so much involved (for me) in doing a Windows re-install, yet people do them almost as often as a defrag (or even more often than that, depending on your defrag schedule).

Drake1009 · 14 June 2002, 09:24

That's why I love ghost so much. I made an image so whenever I want a clean windows it takes me 3 minutes to have one up and running, and then I have an image which has all drivers installed as well as programs like IRC client, ICQ, FTP and the such which is already configured.

ECA · 14 June 2002, 15:24

Last total reinstall of windows, and related data took me 2 weeks. And required that I install NEWER drivers...
Some were nice, but DirectX sucks. I also have Office pro, and that had 16 updates alone. Then you have to RESET each time to make sure they config right. Win98 had 20 updates, then to rediscover all my passwords.. THEN the fun part...all my EMAIL address under Outlook were lost...
ALWAYS make hard copies of INFO files... I lost about 50 persons...but most contacted me and I got them back.

Twistin'Ghost · 15 June 2002, 00:46

Which is why I have yet to make the move (and why I must live with hourly crashes in the interim). I've already made a log of all the programs that are installed, but they will all be a nightmare to reinstall. On the Amiga, most apps smartly use config files that you can save when you have a program the way you like it. On Windows, its typically (and stupidly) kept in the unstable Windows registry. Imagine the time it would take to even attempt to save .reg files for each program (if you were lucky enough to ID all of the references and entries in there). On the PC, usually a program will save its config when you quit the program. Another lame thing, since if you crash (the app or Windows), the settings won't be stored. I prefer saving a config the way you save in an adventure game. That way it's in YOUR control. Some PC apps use .ini files for the settings, but its become quite rare these days.

Nope, I will never fully embrace being a PC user and I'm working my way back to losing the PC and replacing it with a modern Amiga, a classic Amiga, and maybe a Linus box. It's a hefty change, but may keep my hair from turning grey for many more years.

CPC464 · 15 June 2002, 01:13

I know it's not a Brilliant solution BUT, I find it easier to GHOST my Image that way if I need to reformat I just place the ghost image on (about 10 mins) and everything is installed

Saves me hours of work having to re-install Windows and putting Office, Norton etc on

Just a suggestion

Twistin'Ghost · 15 June 2002, 01:45

Well, I have a diiferent program for that (Drive Image, I think it's called...something like that) but at this time, it's useless. W98 degrades over time and thus, I would not want to recreate the way it is right now (with the mishmash of drivers, registry snafus, etc.) I know that ideally it should be imaged once installed and all software is in place the way you want it, but software changes, as do updates and new programs, If I keep making new images when my setup gets updated, then I am also capturing any inefficiencies in that image. Plus the fact that I need that much space free to make a dupe of it all on my D: drive (if only SCSI were more common and functional on PC's...). And if my mirror is larger than a CD, then what? I keep it on my D: drive always?

CPC464 · 15 June 2002, 01:52

Hmmmm I know what you mean I have a GHOST Image of my drive with everything I want on it, then once a month I load it on upgrade all that needs doing (IE, Windows Updates, Virus Defs) then Re-ghost it.

Works a treat

ECA · 15 June 2002, 17:37

I dont mind backups except for a few reasons...

They take up your system with riim you could use.

If they update the program, will it work with a previous version.

If its ON your system, and its ALL corrupted, it Aint there NO more.

Even the best Backup, depends ALOT on GREAT vrus protection. And if you backup the virus or trojan, and it has a timer in it, you may be REALLY out of luck.

A RAW backup, is better then a compressed backup. Bigger yes, but even corrupted you can extract it.

Its better to keep a burned copy of your software and RELOAD it then to deal with all the fun of RELOADING the same stuff.. SOMETHING that you loaded may have been the problem, why put it back on the system.

I hate saying this, but, guess how I learned ALL this....

12 June 2002, 14:25	#1
ECA Obnoxious twit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: wendell, someplace Age: 64 Posts: 37	10,000 programmers cant be that bad. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tre...n/MS02-027.asp http://apnews.excite.com/article/200...D7K3A8480.html It is said that--"if you set 10,000 typewriters in a room, and set a minkey at each of those typewriters, that, eventully, they would type every book known to man. New analogy--"If you set 10,000 programmers in front of computers, writting code, they would still have a piece of @#$% when they finished. Its funny that after almost 8 years, windows STILL aint finished.

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12 June 2002, 14:56	#2
v8juice Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: United States Posts: 86	Well, if you're talking windows, I think you'll need quite a few more... monkeys. Uh, minkeys, that is.

12 June 2002, 22:17	#3
ECA Obnoxious twit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: wendell, someplace Age: 64 Posts: 37	WELL, did you go to the SITES, as they portry a BAD image for MS. How manny updates, bug fixes, and Security warnings do we have to DEAL with, to USE windows... Whats NICE about windows, is that they have made themselves a LARGE stationary TARGET for hackers, and Virus makers. Its REALLY nice that they do this for AMIGA people, and linux people. I thank them.

13 June 2002, 01:35	#4
Drake1009 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,284	I have stopped paying attention to those warnings. I've got no sensitive material on my computer, and since I don't give away my POP3 mail to many people I've managed to get a total of 1 E-mail virus through that. Which I immediately identified as a virus and trashed without looking at it. As for Linux. Yes it's nice to have an alternative though there are a couple of things I'd have liked for it. Like a standardized layout which means that you wouldn't have to download different versions of software based on which distro you used. Another thing would be a better way to get the binaries installed. I'd think that would be more global variables. As it is now you need to compile many of the programs you download and install yourself and usually need to have it configure a bit first. It's ok with small apps. But larger programs really take time. Especially when you're a linux newbie who most likely makes a mistake or two when installing, and then won't have an idea on how to uninstall. (Really had to go messing about with something I didn't know just to install my NVidia drivers since they installed wrongly first time thus crashing X. wouldn't uninstall or reinstall)

13 June 2002, 09:05	#6
Drake1009 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,284	Well as soon as my computer gets sluggish be that because of dos attack or just microsoft I reinstall. And they'd need to get the backdoor in there somewhere. Besides I check my net connection frequently to see what goes and comes.

13 June 2002, 15:12	#7
ECA Obnoxious twit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: wendell, someplace Age: 64 Posts: 37	I DO like 56k... As when someone is hacking me, I can tell VERY quickly... Esp, when Im gaming.. My ping goes over 400, and I shut down the game and check what progs are running...

14 June 2002, 09:24	#9
Drake1009 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,284	That's why I love ghost so much. I made an image so whenever I want a clean windows it takes me 3 minutes to have one up and running, and then I have an image which has all drivers installed as well as programs like IRC client, ICQ, FTP and the such which is already configured.

14 June 2002, 15:24	#10
ECA Obnoxious twit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: wendell, someplace Age: 64 Posts: 37	Last total reinstall of windows, and related data took me 2 weeks. And required that I install NEWER drivers... Some were nice, but DirectX sucks. I also have Office pro, and that had 16 updates alone. Then you have to RESET each time to make sure they config right. Win98 had 20 updates, then to rediscover all my passwords.. THEN the fun part...all my EMAIL address under Outlook were lost... ALWAYS make hard copies of INFO files... I lost about 50 persons...but most contacted me and I got them back.

15 June 2002, 00:46	#11
Twistin'Ghost Give up the ghost Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U$A Age: 33 Posts: 4,662	Which is why I have yet to make the move (and why I must live with hourly crashes in the interim). I've already made a log of all the programs that are installed, but they will all be a nightmare to reinstall. On the Amiga, most apps smartly use config files that you can save when you have a program the way you like it. On Windows, its typically (and stupidly) kept in the unstable Windows registry. Imagine the time it would take to even attempt to save .reg files for each program (if you were lucky enough to ID all of the references and entries in there). On the PC, usually a program will save its config when you quit the program. Another lame thing, since if you crash (the app or Windows), the settings won't be stored. I prefer saving a config the way you save in an adventure game. That way it's in YOUR control. Some PC apps use .ini files for the settings, but its become quite rare these days. Nope, I will never fully embrace being a PC user and I'm working my way back to losing the PC and replacing it with a modern Amiga, a classic Amiga, and maybe a Linus box. It's a hefty change, but may keep my hair from turning grey for many more years.

15 June 2002, 01:13	#12
CPC464 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: York Age: 54 Posts: 393	I know it's not a Brilliant solution BUT, I find it easier to GHOST my Image that way if I need to reformat I just place the ghost image on (about 10 mins) and everything is installed Saves me hours of work having to re-install Windows and putting Office, Norton etc on Just a suggestion

15 June 2002, 01:45	#13
Twistin'Ghost Give up the ghost Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U$A Age: 33 Posts: 4,662	Well, I have a diiferent program for that (Drive Image, I think it's called...something like that) but at this time, it's useless. W98 degrades over time and thus, I would not want to recreate the way it is right now (with the mishmash of drivers, registry snafus, etc.) I know that ideally it should be imaged once installed and all software is in place the way you want it, but software changes, as do updates and new programs, If I keep making new images when my setup gets updated, then I am also capturing any inefficiencies in that image. Plus the fact that I need that much space free to make a dupe of it all on my D: drive (if only SCSI were more common and functional on PC's...). And if my mirror is larger than a CD, then what? I keep it on my D: drive always?

15 June 2002, 01:52	#14
CPC464 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: York Age: 54 Posts: 393	Hmmmm I know what you mean I have a GHOST Image of my drive with everything I want on it, then once a month I load it on upgrade all that needs doing (IE, Windows Updates, Virus Defs) then Re-ghost it. Works a treat

15 June 2002, 17:37	#15
ECA Obnoxious twit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: wendell, someplace Age: 64 Posts: 37	I dont mind backups except for a few reasons... They take up your system with riim you could use. If they update the program, will it work with a previous version. If its ON your system, and its ALL corrupted, it Aint there NO more. Even the best Backup, depends ALOT on GREAT vrus protection. And if you backup the virus or trojan, and it has a timer in it, you may be REALLY out of luck. A RAW backup, is better then a compressed backup. Bigger yes, but even corrupted you can extract it. Its better to keep a burned copy of your software and RELOAD it then to deal with all the fun of RELOADING the same stuff.. SOMETHING that you loaded may have been the problem, why put it back on the system. I hate saying this, but, guess how I learned ALL this....

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