English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Retrogaming General Discussion

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 27 September 2022, 00:15   #1
ZEUSDAZ
Registered User
ZEUSDAZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: England
Posts: 645
Green Beret on the C16, Seriously, why why why???

I never knew Green Beret was released on the C16 back in the day so imagine my surprise when I was requested to play it on the Shit Game Time series.


When I first loaded it up I just could NOT belive what I was seeing and the shock didn't end there when it came with a retail price of £7.95, good god


Well here's my view of it, I would certainly like to know if any of you had the misfortune of playing this let alone being a sucker into buying it.


Green Beret C16 SGT Review: [ Show youtube player ]
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	green beret c16.jpg
Views:	91
Size:	273.3 KB
ID:	76667  
ZEUSDAZ is offline  
Old 27 September 2022, 14:43   #2
d4rk3lf
Registered User

d4rk3lf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Novi Sad, Serbia
Posts: 1,425
Still better then Ruling Thunder on A500.
d4rk3lf is online now  
Old 27 September 2022, 16:45   #3
grond
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,374
That's not even the worst cash grab in C=16 games history. That title goes to "Yie Ar Kung-Fu". I saved my pocket money for quite some time to buy that game (it cost one third of what I had paid for the C=16 with datasette) and it was such an enormous letdown, I still feel bad thinking about the little boy that I was.

I think it was a scheme to make money off well-reputed C=64 games by producing lousy quick ports.
grond is offline  
Old 27 September 2022, 18:17   #4
Tigerskunk
Tigerskunk!

Tigerskunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Amiga Island
Posts: 2,497
Quote:
Originally Posted by grond View Post
That's not even the worst cash grab in C=16 games history. That title goes to "Yie Ar Kung-Fu". I saved my pocket money for quite some time to buy that game (it cost one third of what I had paid for the C=16 with datasette) and it was such an enormous letdown, I still feel bad thinking about the little boy that I was.

I think it was a scheme to make money off well-reputed C=64 games by producing lousy quick ports.
[ Show youtube player ]

haha. That doesn't look like too much fun.

Not even a death animation.
Tigerskunk is offline  
Old 27 September 2022, 20:30   #5
van_dammesque
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: England
Posts: 156
A real shame they didn't include the knife graphics
van_dammesque is offline  
Old 27 September 2022, 22:55   #6
Anubis
Retro Gamer

Anubis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Underworld
Age: 50
Posts: 3,677
I was never good in Green Beret arcade game, and just completed Amiga remake after first playing it in Retro League.

This really shows developer short vision, almost as kids coded it.... actually, kids would probably do better job.
Anubis is offline  
Old 27 September 2022, 23:46   #7
jotd
This cat is no more
jotd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: FRANCE
Age: 51
Posts: 6,737
FYI it's called "Game & Watch"

nice ascii art BTW

Code:
*************
* GAME OVER *
*************
jotd is offline  
Old 28 September 2022, 00:50   #8
gimbal
cheeky scoundrel

gimbal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands
Age: 41
Posts: 5,545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerskunk View Post
haha. That doesn't look like too much fun.

Not even a death animation.
"Prepare for next opponent". I mean "the", "your", costs thousands to have a game print those words out of course.
gimbal is offline  
Old 28 September 2022, 09:19   #9
grond
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,374
One factor that made such cash grabs possible was that C=16 were comparatively rare to the effect that getting copied games wasn't as easy as for the C=64. Thus, if you wanted to have some games at all, you probably bought them. And you bought those that were famous C=64 titles you had seen at your C=64-owning neighbour's place.
grond is offline  
Old 28 September 2022, 21:38   #10
gimbal
cheeky scoundrel

gimbal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands
Age: 41
Posts: 5,545
And I'm sure it was rationalized as "well, 16 is 1/4th of 64, so I guess you also get 1/4th the game experience..."
gimbal is offline  
Old 29 September 2022, 02:07   #11
ImmortalA1000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: london/england
Posts: 782
Why? Because the TED chip was never designed to be sold in a 16kb computer and it's nothing more than Irving Gould Commodore flamingo up (flamingo is much larger than a cockerel )

You can bet your arse that a Commodore 264 for $80 would have given the Amstrad and Atari versions a run for their money but WTF can you actually do with 16kb? Simple stuff like BMX Simulator only, and only then if you cut out all the fancy title pages and music
ImmortalA1000 is offline  
Old 29 September 2022, 13:58   #12
Tigerskunk
Tigerskunk!

Tigerskunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Amiga Island
Posts: 2,497
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalA1000 View Post
Why? Because the TED chip was never designed to be sold in a 16kb computer and it's nothing more than Irving Gould Commodore flamingo up (flamingo is much larger than a cockerel )

You can bet your arse that a Commodore 264 for $80 would have given the Amstrad and Atari versions a run for their money but WTF can you actually do with 16kb? Simple stuff like BMX Simulator only, and only then if you cut out all the fancy title pages and music
Seeing Alpha Ray, the Plus4 seems actually really capable.

Strange that everybody chased that "poor customer" back in the day and it seems it always backfired. See the A600 later on as well.

When was the cheap but worse micro computer released after a much more capable machine ever a success?
Tigerskunk is offline  
Old 29 September 2022, 15:22   #13
grond
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalA1000 View Post
Why? Because the TED chip was never designed to be sold in a 16kb computer and it's nothing more than Irving Gould Commodore flamingo up (flamingo is much larger than a cockerel )

You can bet your arse that a Commodore 264 for $80 would have given the Amstrad and Atari versions a run for their money but WTF can you actually do with 16kb? Simple stuff like BMX Simulator only, and only then if you cut out all the fancy title pages and music
I don't think the 16KB were the bigger problem. The TED had some improvements over the C64, e.g. a much larger and balanced colour palette but it didn't have any sprites because the 264 were designed as office machines. They figured an office computer didn't need any sprites. Office use just wasn't what those computers were bought for. Without the sprites you couldn't do fast movements on the screen, the C=16 games had to use custom character sets (fonts) for graphics which made collision detection difficult and resulted in slow blocky movement and lack of overlap between sprites. All this isn't to say that those games shouldn't have been much better than they were. There were some good C=16 titles that proved that good games could be made for it after all.
grond is offline  
Old 29 September 2022, 21:32   #14
Marce
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: SA
Posts: 272
but meanwhile the c64 ' green beret port was fantastic, and in certain point of view perhaps better than the original arcade

who were doing crap for the C16 in the era are the same kind of ppl who today is doing commercial crap for cells phones, for old computers etc

they make a living doing garbage for/if some idiot buys
history always repeats itself even almost 40 years later
Marce is offline  
Old 29 September 2022, 21:44   #15
Parsec
Registered User
Parsec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lancashire
Age: 47
Posts: 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marce View Post
but meanwhile the c64 ' green beret port was fantastic, and in certain point of view perhaps better than the original arcade
It was great, if a bit on the difficult side!

Even the C64 wasn't totally immune to shit though - remember Enduro Racer? I blew £9.95 on that before the reviews came out, ugh. Because my mate was into bikes and desperate to play it. Apparently the Spectrum version was great. It still upsets me.
Parsec is offline  
Old 29 September 2022, 22:08   #16
Marce
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: SA
Posts: 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parsec View Post
It was great, if a bit on the difficult side!

Even the C64 wasn't totally immune to shit though - remember Enduro Racer? I blew £9.95 on that before the reviews came out, ugh. Because my mate was into bikes and desperate to play it. Apparently the Spectrum version was great. It still upsets me.
yep enduro racer for the c64 was total garbage, the spectrum version was better, even running the game in the 128k this game features music+ engine noise, something not very common in the era
Marce is offline  
Old 30 September 2022, 20:13   #17
sonninnos
Commodork

sonninnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Finland
Posts: 68
The C64 version is indeed excellent, and provides a proper challenge with that logical surprise randomness and tight controls. I still haven't managed to beat level 3, and barely even can beat level 1 without dying, but I keep trying, and having fun doing so.
sonninnos is online now  
Old 01 October 2022, 02:15   #18
ZEUSDAZ
Registered User
ZEUSDAZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: England
Posts: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parsec View Post
Even the C64 wasn't totally immune to shit though - remember Enduro Racer? I blew £9.95 on that before the reviews came out, ugh. Because my mate was into bikes and desperate to play it. Apparently the Spectrum version was great. It still upsets me.

God, Enduro Racer on the C64, bloody awful, I did that on the SGT series a while back along with Chase H.Q, Wec Le Mans, Super Hang-On,...all utter shite on the C64 compared to the ZX versions and dare I say even the CPC versions, Racers certainly wasn't c64's forte looking back, most were way sub par,...look at Hard Drivin' for example,...YUK!
Buggy Boy was good though along with Turbo Outrun.
ZEUSDAZ is offline  
Old 01 October 2022, 06:03   #19
Hewitson
Registered User
Hewitson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 40
Posts: 3,768
The gameplay of Enduro Racer was absolutely terrible. The music was something else though, what a tune!
Hewitson is offline  
Old 01 October 2022, 07:04   #20
Bruce Abbott
Registered User

Bruce Abbott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Hastings, New Zealand
Posts: 1,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalA1000 View Post
Why? Because the TED chip was never designed to be sold in a 16kb computer and it's nothing more than Irving Gould Commodore flamingo up (flamingo is much larger than a cockerel )
Commodore 16
Quote:
The C16 was intended to compete with other sub-$100 computers from Timex Corporation, Mattel, and Texas Instruments (TI). Timex's and Mattel's computers were less expensive than the VIC-20, and although the VIC-20 offered better expandability, a full-travel keyboard, and in some cases more memory, the C16 offered a chance to improve upon those advantages. The TI-99/4A was priced in-between Commodore's VIC-20 and Commodore 64, and is somewhat between them in capability, but TI was lowering its prices. On paper, the C16 is a closer match for the TI-99/4A than the aging VIC-20.
Lets's compare the C16 to its intended competition:-

Mattel Aquarius:- 4k RAM, 38x24 text in 2 of 16 colors, no bitmap graphics, 1 bit sound, no joystick port, no disk drive port, horrible rubber keyboard. At least they had the sense to include a full expansion port, but apart from that it was dire. Amazing that a famous company like Mattel would put their name on such a POS.

Timex Sinclair 1500:- effectively a ZX81 in ZX Spectrum style case with rubber keyboard and 16k RAM. Monochrome 32x24 text, no bitmap graphics, no sound, no disk drive port, CPU runs at ~1/4 speed when the display is active. Not surprising that it was discontinued only one year after launch.

Ti-99/4A:- 16 bit CPU based on minicomputer architecture, same video chip as MSX with 2 of 16 color 8x8 tiles making 256x192 bitmap graphics, plus sprites, 3 channel sound chip, more than 16k of RAM, cartridge and expansion ports, mechanical keyboard, joystick port - and a tragically flawed design. You see, that 'more than 16k' of RAM was actually 16k of video RAM behind the VDP, plus a miserable 256 bytes of main memory (which acted like the zero page does in 6502 machines). This made loading machine code games from tape impractical without an expensive RAM expansion. To make matters worse the BASIC ROM was accessed serially, so it was very slow.

Of the 3 intended competitors the Ti-99/4A was the only one which could better the C16 (for cartridge games only, forget about tape). However it was only 'competitive' because Ti slashed the price below cost in order to match the VIC20.

Wikipedia continues...
Quote:
Commodore president Jack Tramiel feared that one or more Japanese companies would introduce a consumer-oriented computer and undercut everyone's prices. Although Japanese companies would soon dominate the U.S. video game console market, their feared dominance of the home computer field never materialized. Additionally, Timex, Mattel, and TI departed the computer market before the C16 was released...

Hardware designer Bil Herd notes that the C116 is the original member of this family of computers and is the original vision as imparted by Jack Tramiel to the engineering department. It was designed to sell for $49 to $79. The C16 and the Plus/4 came later and were mostly driven by the company trying to figure out what to do with the new computer family after Tramiel's departure from Commodore.
The C116 had a horrible chiclet rubber keyboard. Only 51,000 units were sold. If that was Tramiel's vision...

One could argue that Irving Gould should have axed the C16, but I for one am glad he didn't. It was a much better machine to learn on than others in its class, and many people got their introduction to programming from it. And it's different enough from the C64 to be interesting to retro computing enthusiasts.

Quote:
You can bet your arse that a Commodore 264 for $80 would have given the Amstrad and Atari versions a run for their money but WTF can you actually do with 16kb? Simple stuff like BMX Simulator only, and only then if you cut out all the fancy title pages and music
We will never know if Trameil could have pulled it off, but...

(Wikipedia again)
Quote:
In an early stage of development of the C16, Commodore was planning to have single layer PCBs built in as an attempt of cost reducing, with the manufacturing cost of such a PCB being around $12. But these plans were later discarded possibly due to technical problems. It was the first and only attempt of Commodore using single layer PCBs inside their computers, and only one such PCB is known to be preserved.
I suspect a 'Commodore 264' for $80 was unachievable, even if Tramiel hadn't gutted Commodore on his departure. The main reason the C16 'failed' was that the competition failed earlier, so it had nothing to compete against. It was then seen as wanting compared to the more expensive but more capable C64. The same situation applied to the C65, which Gould did axe (a pity, but the 'right' decision as it would have failed too - just like the Amstrad CPC Plus range failed. by 1991 the 8 bit home computing era was over).

Compared to other machines in its class, the C16's 16k of RAM was a lot. If that wasn't enough then it could be upgraded to 64k via the RAM expansion port, making it equivalent to the Plus4. Note that the ZX Spectrum originally only had 16k RAM, as did the Atari 600XL.

I think the C16 was a good machine for the price, but rather than being taken on its own merits it was seen as a cut down C64 with 'essential' features missing and an incompatible BASIC. Not being able to play C64 games made the C16 a non-starter for C64 fans. They didn't care that it was faster, or had a better BASIC, or more colors. It had to be both cheaper and highly compatible.
Bruce Abbott is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Green Beret for Amiga jarre Amiga scene 179 07 November 2022 15:58
Commodore C16 prabmire MarketPlace 0 06 October 2011 16:33
[Found: Fireforce] Side-scrolling shooter similar to Green Beret Schano Looking for a game name ? 4 01 August 2010 10:28
Green Beret Cover :) blade002 Nostalgia & memories 8 16 April 2010 03:07
Green Beret. Amiga conversion exist? Fred the Fop Looking for a game name ? 19 12 October 2001 18:24

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:16.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.17150 seconds with 14 queries