A1000 prototype found (velvet)

ovale · 25 February 2015, 08:08

http://scacom.bplaced.net/Collection/velvet/velveten.php

jbenam · 25 February 2015, 10:35

Niiiice! I hope the ROM does find its way to the internets

It would be a shame to risk losing it!

mark_k · 25 February 2015, 14:21

Definitely. Perhaps someone from Cloanto can contact the owner and get those EPROMs dumped; since they hold the rights, they could give permission.

Some points of interest:
It uses 6526 CIAs, not 8520. The change to 8520s must have come fairly late in the development process.

The Daphne/Denise chip is marked AM4705A. Paula used to have an early name like that; 4703 is mentioned in the Hardware Reference Manual.

There is no AmigaDOS or Intuition in the Kickstart ROM (if the list of modules is complete).

I wonder if the trackdisk disk format had been finalised at that point. Examining the Kickstart data could provide an answer, and also figure out the requirements for creating a bootable disk.

Toni Wilen · 25 February 2015, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_k

Definitely. Perhaps someone from Cloanto can contact the owner and get those EPROMs dumped; since they hold the rights, they could give permission.

All done already

jbenam · 25 February 2015, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

All done already

Does that mean that in the next beta of WinUAE we get the A1000 prototype in the Quickstart menu?

Toni Wilen · 26 February 2015, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbenam

Does that mean that in the next beta of WinUAE we get the A1000 prototype in the Quickstart menu?

Unfortunately it isn't that simple.

Disk CIA pins seem to be differently wired. No one knows what kind of disk format it uses (it has no dos and no dos filesystem in rom). No one has floppies that originally came with it.

It only shows some green garbage on screen (second copper list contains garbage, first copper list is same as in later official roms). Real hardware shows same corruption.

Lots of unknowns.

It writes some debug info to serial port:

Code:

AMIGA ROM Operating System and Libraries.
Copyright 1984 by Commodore Amiga, Inc..

exec Version 23.93 (Tue Feb 12 11:53:20 PST 1985).
.
Dancing April Fool's GFXLIB 24.20 Apr 1,1985.
timer Version 23.207 (Thu Mar 7 19:38:02 PST 1985)..
TrackDiscDriver/Init: running on a Paula..
TrackDiscDriver Version 23.285 (Thu Mar 7 19:48:54 PST 1985)..
graphics vector nop.
graphics vector nop.
audio Ver 24.3  (Thu Mar 7 17:25:04 PST 1985)..
..
resources: CIA:0x15D0 disk.resource:0x1618 ..
devices: timer:0x1B6A TrackDiscDriver:0x1CBA Keyboard:0x1EBA GamePort:0x2020 Console:0x23B8 ..
libraries: exec:0x1282 graphics:0x1888 math:0x1AEC Utility:0x1E2A input.library: 0x230A audio:0x39B4 debug:0x3B2C ..

(btw, it is "velvet", not "verve")

Mrs Beanbag · 26 February 2015, 20:59

just a question... why is this thread in Coders.Asm forum?

Paul_s · 26 February 2015, 22:33

I wonder if this developer system is related? Although it seems even 'older' than the REV3 Velvet there...

http://only.amiga.free.fr/index.php?...eres&Itemid=50

Toni Wilen · 27 February 2015, 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul_s

I wonder if this developer system is related? Although it seems even 'older' than the REV3 Velvet there...

It probably is older, totally different PCB layout compared to velvet which is very similar to release A1000 (minus daughterboard).

Unfortunately images are too low quality and resolution.

ROM dumps would help but those ancient eproms may lose bits anytime now..

mark_k · 28 February 2015, 02:09

The Velvet board only has 128KB chip RAM; it looks like a setting for that needs to be added to WinUAE...

Kickstart 1.0 and 1.1 should work with 128KB chip RAM. Kickstart 1.2 and 1.3 show a yellow screen.

The metal-cased development system is clearly older. But its Kickstart EPROMs have 24.60 written on the labels, so are probably newer than the velvet one.

My guess is both systems would be mostly compatible at the software level. The older one has some clues about ancient history though; cartridge slot at the front and guides/connector for the cartridge. The cut-out in the casing for the floppy drive is 5.25" size; since the Amiga was originally going to have a 5.25" drive.

Toni Wilen · 28 February 2015, 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_k

The Velvet board only has 128KB chip RAM; it looks like a setting for that needs to be added to WinUAE...

128k chip ram has been supported for years, it is only not visible in GUI.

NorthWay · 28 February 2015, 21:25

Just being curious (and I couldn't find the answer in the docs and settings from a cursory glance): Does WinUAE support the A1000 WOM?

Is there anything else than Dragon's Lair that can use it?
Possibly some intro/demo that wrote out hacked/custom KS?

mark_k · 28 February 2015, 22:09

Yes it does.

A-Max can use it for extra RAM, maybe some Atari ST emulator can too?

Amiten · 28 February 2015, 23:48

amazing!!!!

thanks for the link

Paul_s · 01 March 2015, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_k

The Velvet board only has 128KB chip RAM; it looks like a setting for that needs to be added to WinUAE...

Kickstart 1.0 and 1.1 should work with 128KB chip RAM. Kickstart 1.2 and 1.3 show a yellow screen.

The metal-cased development system is clearly older. But its Kickstart EPROMs have 24.60 written on the labels, so are probably newer than the velvet one.

My guess is both systems would be mostly compatible at the software level. The older one has some clues about ancient history though; cartridge slot at the front and guides/connector for the cartridge. The cut-out in the casing for the floppy drive is 5.25" size; since the Amiga was originally going to have a 5.25" drive.

The older one from looking at the other pics on the link I posted come from the 'Lorraine' days when the custom chips were on outboard pcbs!

It'd be nice to own either system imo, the Lorraine system sold for $1750 in the end (minus custom pcbs - I'm pretty sure they still exist)

ovale · 02 March 2015, 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_k

My guess is both systems would be mostly compatible at the software level. The older one has some clues about ancient history though; cartridge slot at the front and guides/connector for the cartridge. The cut-out in the casing for the floppy drive is 5.25" size; since the Amiga was originally going to have a 5.25" drive.

If the metal box is the Lorraine prototype then, I guess, the software compatibility is limited. As far I know the Amiga chip set was luma-chroma based. It was converted to RGB after Commodore acquired Amiga.

mark_k · 02 March 2015, 18:01

The wire-wrapped breadboards are not, as far as I know, from the same stage of development as the black-box developer system.

They appeared in the same photos, sure. Maybe someone who used to work for Amiga exhibited both units at a computer show or user group etc.

ovale · 02 March 2015, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_k

They appeared in the same photos, sure. Maybe someone who used to work for Amiga exhibited both units at a computer show or user group etc.

You are right. Both the prototypes have two hc244 and 3 transistor plus the 3 resistors ladders. So they are RGB machines.

pandy71 · 03 March 2015, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ovale

You are right. Both the prototypes have two hc244 and 3 transistor plus the 3 resistors ladders. So they are RGB machines.

They can be also YPbPr, YUV etc - sure is that there are 3 channels - how data was coded is purely up to coder.

ovale · 03 March 2015, 17:03

Yes, who knows... anyway I doubt commodore did a spin of the chips in Yxx before RGB.

25 February 2015, 08:08	#1
ovale Registered User Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: milan / italy Posts: 174	A1000 prototype found (velvet) http://scacom.bplaced.net/Collection/velvet/velveten.php

26 February 2015, 22:33	#8
Paul_s Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Amigaville Age: 46 Posts: 3,334	I wonder if this developer system is related? Although it seems even 'older' than the REV3 Velvet there... http://only.amiga.free.fr/index.php?...eres&Itemid=50 Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Paul_s; 26 February 2015 at 22:38.

28 February 2015, 02:09	#10
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,333	The Velvet board only has 128KB chip RAM; it looks like a setting for that needs to be added to WinUAE... Kickstart 1.0 and 1.1 should work with 128KB chip RAM. Kickstart 1.2 and 1.3 show a yellow screen. The metal-cased development system is clearly older. But its Kickstart EPROMs have 24.60 written on the labels, so are probably newer than the velvet one. My guess is both systems would be mostly compatible at the software level. The older one has some clues about ancient history though; cartridge slot at the front and guides/connector for the cartridge. The cut-out in the casing for the floppy drive is 5.25" size; since the Amiga was originally going to have a 5.25" drive. Last edited by mark_k; 28 February 2015 at 02:21.

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25 February 2015, 10:35	#2
jbenam Italian Amiga Zealot Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Italy Age: 36 Posts: 1,910	Niiiice! I hope the ROM does find its way to the internets It would be a shame to risk losing it!

25 February 2015, 14:21	#3
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,333	Definitely. Perhaps someone from Cloanto can contact the owner and get those EPROMs dumped; since they hold the rights, they could give permission. Some points of interest: It uses 6526 CIAs, not 8520. The change to 8520s must have come fairly late in the development process. The Daphne/Denise chip is marked AM4705A. Paula used to have an early name like that; 4703 is mentioned in the Hardware Reference Manual. There is no AmigaDOS or Intuition in the Kickstart ROM (if the list of modules is complete). I wonder if the trackdisk disk format had been finalised at that point. Examining the Kickstart data could provide an answer, and also figure out the requirements for creating a bootable disk.

26 February 2015, 20:59	#7
Mrs Beanbag Glastonbridge Software Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Edinburgh/Scotland Posts: 2,243	just a question... why is this thread in Coders.Asm forum?

28 February 2015, 21:25	#12
NorthWay Registered User Join Date: May 2013 Location: Grimstad / Norway Posts: 839	Just being curious (and I couldn't find the answer in the docs and settings from a cursory glance): Does WinUAE support the A1000 WOM? Is there anything else than Dragon's Lair that can use it? Possibly some intro/demo that wrote out hacked/custom KS?

28 February 2015, 22:09	#13
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,333	Yes it does. A-Max can use it for extra RAM, maybe some Atari ST emulator can too?

28 February 2015, 23:48	#14
Amiten Banned Join Date: May 2011 Location: Spain Posts: 519	amazing!!!! thanks for the link

02 March 2015, 18:01	#17
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,333	The wire-wrapped breadboards are not, as far as I know, from the same stage of development as the black-box developer system. They appeared in the same photos, sure. Maybe someone who used to work for Amiga exhibited both units at a computer show or user group etc.

03 March 2015, 17:03	#20
ovale Registered User Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: milan / italy Posts: 174	Yes, who knows... anyway I doubt commodore did a spin of the chips in Yxx before RGB.

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