Mac Emulation

asm1 · 01 November 2009, 22:48

Hi

I'm interested in Emulating a "Classic Mac" On my A1200.I know there are one or two people on here who have had much success. I intend using OS 8.1 which is about as far as I beleive I can go with my 68060 (non PPC)

I have managed to get a copy of Fusion 3.2C from the zone and I am now wondering which is the best rom to use? I have read from various sourcess that on an 060 Amiga, the 1MB rom "macs" can be emulated, but know little else. I am not asking for people to supply rom images. All I am asking is "What have you successfully emulated?"

The third prong to my question is, can this all be setup in Winuae? Reason being that the CF I run in My 1200 also works perfectly fine in Winuae... as an 060 Amiga, since my "Hardware build" is currently in progress, and basically I want something to faff around with

Why ?... Because I can, or at least I think I can.

I plan for my Blizzard card to have 256MB on it so memory wont be an issue.

Any input/advice apreciated.

Andrew

prowler · 01 November 2009, 23:21

Hi Andrew,

I'm not very familaiar with Mac emulation on the Amiga. I own several Macs and emulation, when I need it, is carried out in DOS/Windows on a PC.

However, there are several common features between Mac emulation on a PC and an Amiga.

This site can provide all the ROM and disk images you will need for successful Mac emulation on any platform.

In particular, ROMs are available here:
http://nbbemulation.free.fr/forum_ma...opic.php?id=69
Several 1MB ROMs are listed, but I would advise you to go with the Quadra 700-900 ROM for Mac OS 8.

I would recommend that you download Macintosh System 7.1.2 disk images for the Quadra from here to get started with the emulator. The disk images you will need are the following:
Additions.image.sit.bin
Disk_Tools.image.sit.bin
Goodies.image.sit.bin
InstallMeFirst.image.sit.bin
Printing_Fonts.image.sit.bin

A useful addition to your toolbox for Mac emulation on the Amiga is CrossMAC. Versions of this software have been uploaded to the Zone on occasions, so you will probably find one on the EAB File Server.

I will stop here so that you don't have to wait all night for a reply!

If you have any specific questions, please feel free to ask.

gulliver · 02 November 2009, 04:17

Hi, i have emuated MACs on my Amiga and this is what i can tell you from my experience:

-Use if possible a 1MB Quadra ROM
-Use either Fusion 3.2 or Shapeshifter 3.11
-MacOS 8.1 is nice but 7.6.1 is twice faster & more stable
-Go to http://main.system7today.com/ to get information, programs and games to run

An emulated mac is good for:
-Using desktop publishing and image processing apps
-Runing games
-Using some NLE video editors such as QuickFli, Premiere and Videoshop
-Using MS Office stuff, like Excel, Word and Powerpoint
-And of course for playing with a different OS and surfing the internet.

Speaking about internet on emulated Macs:
-There is a Twitter client program
-Netscape 4.08 works really well
-iCab 2.99 is a browser with CSS support
-You can use older but functional Flash v3

Any other question just ask! Good luck!

Of course you can use WinUAE to run Mac emulation! I used not too long ago an A1200 040 64MB to run those emulators.

Retro1234 · 02 November 2009, 11:38

Theres a ShapeShifter HDF ready to run with all the nescerray files to boot Mac OS 7.. this can then be copied over to a real Amiga -Its only about 6mb if you want ill Zone it.

asm1 · 02 November 2009, 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

Theres a ShapeShifter HDF ready to run with all the nescerray files to boot Mac OS 7.. this can then be copied over to a real Amiga -Its only about 6mb if you want ill Zone it.

if you would that would be cool... means I can mess around

prowler · 02 November 2009, 23:16

Hi Andrew,

I have a copy of the hardfile originally uploaded by Boo Boo. I've Zoned it for you.

Retro1234 · 03 November 2009, 02:16

Yep thanks prowler -The HDF QuickStart A1200 + JIT + 8Mb Fast
Enable Shapeshifter Suport under Roms on WinUae - Or on real Amiga add something like "PrepareEmul A1200" to your startup-sequence
There were? some ADFs of Apps like Work, Excel somewhere on the EAB file server your need crossmac for these.

prowler · 03 November 2009, 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

The HDF QuickStart A1200 + JIT + 8Mb Fast
Enable Shapeshifter Suport under Roms on WinUae - Or on real Amiga add something like "PrepareEmul A1200" to your startup-sequence

Thanks for those details, Boo Boo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

There were? some ADFs of Apps like Work, Excel somewhere on the EAB file server your need crossmac for these.

ADF versions of these applications were uploaded to the Zone by Supamax to be used with the A-Max Macintosh Plus emulator in WinUAE. The versions which are on the EAB File Server in the Emulators/Amiga Macintosh folder are A-Max disk images and will only work with ShapeShifter running on a real Amiga.

There could well be ADF versions on the EAB File Server in The Zone! folder, which were put there when they dropped out of the Zone, but they are experimental and may not work properly.

@Andrew,

If you are interested in trying ADF versions of these applications with ShapeShifter in WinUAE, then either Supermax, myself or another contributor to the A-Max Disks thread can upload them for you. Please bear in mind, however, that they are the Italian versions (but nonetheless useable for that

).

And CrossMAC 1.05 can be found on the EAB File Server in the Emulators/Amiga Macintosh folder.

klapdeur · 19 November 2009, 08:02

Hi asm1

wel im running a mac on my A4000 060 with shapeshifter the last one that was made because this one has good cd support

im running mac os 8.0 (8.1 has some problems that freezes the amiga)

it runs great at full speed here using cybergraphx.

shapeshifter is better then fusion at the emulation part i tried fusion and ifusion and shapeshifter shapeshifter came out as the fastest.

you can get it from the net search for shapeshifter 3.11 if you cant find i will make an archive from mine and upload it for ya.

gr
klapdeur

Angus · 19 November 2009, 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by asm1

Hi

I'm interested in Emulating a "Classic Mac" On my A1200.I know there are one or two people on here who have had much success. I intend using OS 8.1 which is about as far as I beleive I can go with my 68060 (non PPC)

A couple of random thoughts, Andrew. I think at the time I was doing this, Fusion was the faster option if you were using AGA - but when I got a Mediator and Voodoo 3 I could not get Fusion to run, no problems because Shapeshifter did very well.

There was a thread a while back on Amiga.org and one of the very knowlegeable guys there (Flashlab) found that he got better performance not by using a separate partition for Mac emulation, but by using a hard disk file that was on a partition formatted with one of the custom systems. Forget the name now, but just a thought.

I managed to get Photoshop running, not that fast but useable (060) I think the last 68k version was 3 (or 4?).

asm1 · 26 January 2010, 03:30

Resurrecting this thread again....

Have successfully got a 32MB "Mac" running in Winuae thanks to prowler's system 7.01 in colour too.

When I start shapeshifter I get several errors:

(emu10kx.audio)
Unable to open 'openpci.library' version 1

(maestropro.audio request)
Couldn't open maestix.library V36

(Toccata.audio)
Cannot open 'toccata.library' v12

Now I understand that these are probably to do with sound emulation and since I am running under winuae, I suspect that something might be needing tweaked. I have enabled "shapeshifter support" under ROMS in winuae.

Retro1234 · 26 January 2010, 09:25

They look like librarys for AHI Soundcard?

Madcrow · 26 January 2010, 21:08

Has anyone compared the performance of WinUAE running a Mac Emulator with the performance of native PC Mac emulator such as Basilisk II? It's at least possible that WinUAE's RTG performance and more-recently updated 68k emulation code might give it a performance advatage of a "native" solution, but absent any numbers to prove such I thing, I don't know...

For real hardware, Mac emulation is certainly a cool thing to do though, as the fact that both systems used the same CPU family means that Amiga Mac emulators are actually virtualizing the CPU (which gives near-native performance) rather than emulating it! That means that even a basic 1200 with a stock 8 MB RAM expansion can be a great system to use classic Mac-based productivity software with. By the time you get to 060-upgraded Amiga, you've got a system that puts not only all the 68K Mac, but evenmost of the first-gen PPC Macs to shame speed-wise.

DDNI · 26 January 2010, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madcrow

By the time you get to 060-upgraded Amiga, you've got a system that puts not only all the 68K Mac, but evenmost of the first-gen PPC Macs to shame speed-wise.

Oh yes....

[ Show youtube player ] (again

)

prowler · 26 January 2010, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by asm1

Have successfully got a 32MB "Mac" running in Winuae thanks to prowler's system 7.01 in colour too.

When I start shapeshifter I get several errors:

(emu10kx.audio)
Unable to open 'openpci.library' version 1

(maestropro.audio request)
Couldn't open maestix.library V36

(Toccata.audio)
Cannot open 'toccata.library' v12

Now I understand that these are probably to do with sound emulation and since I am running under winuae, I suspect that something might be needing tweaked. I have enabled "shapeshifter support" under ROMS in winuae.

Hi Andrew,

That's really not bad at all for a first attempt.

OpenPCI unified library and drivers for Amiga PCI/AGP Bus Project Page:
http://bvernoux.free.fr/DevPCI.php

OpenPCI library v2.1 (68k and PPC/MorphOS)
OpenPCI library v2.0 (68k and PPC/MorphOS)

MaestroPro driver V41.40 + AHI driver V2.2:
http://aminet.net/package/util/libs/Maestix
(includes maestix.library v41.40)

Toccata.library V12.0:
http://aminet.net/package/util/libs/toclib12

With a bit of luck these links will fix those dependencies.

Quick update:

Quote:

Originally Posted by asm1

(emu10kx.audio)

Unable to open 'openpci.library' version 1

If you find that only OpenPCI.library v1.0 will do, it might actually be okay to delete the emu10kx.audio driver from DEVS:AHI instead.
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=253947&postcount=4

Fabie · 26 January 2010, 23:07

asm1,

I think that shape shifter want that libraries because you have made a bad installation of AHI
Im sure When you installed AHI you have selected all the amiga sound cards....so shapeshifter thinks that you have lots of soundcards
I suggest that you unistall AHI and install it again

prowler · 26 January 2010, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabie

I think that shape shifter want that libraries because you have made a bad installation of AHI

Perhaps it's just an old version of AHI.

@Andrew:
The current AHI release version is 6.0.

asm1 · 27 January 2010, 19:56

I wasnt aware I had installed AHI

All i am working with is cwb os 3.9. Any AHI installed will be in that or BB3. Might be that it is looking for old version.

Ty for tips

asm1 · 31 January 2010, 04:29

Havent done the "fixes" for the amiga side dependencies (lazy) But have managed to get Os 7.55 up and running

I would like to get 7.6 going. The version I have (us) installs fine but when I boot it, I get to the Mac OS start up screen which goes for about a second then "black screen" crashes the Amiga (Winuae)

I'm no expert, Winuae is generating a dump file... I'm having trouble getting CDroms going in shapeshifter under Winuae (is it possible?) so it could be that the download of 7.6 I have is bad.

Must fix the dependencies... might be half the prob.

Off to bed, been fiddling far too long

Retro1234 · 31 January 2010, 12:32

You add uaescsi.device or something

Or you could set up your Mac HardFile under Basilisk as the hardfiles are compatible.

01 November 2009, 22:48	#1
asm1 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Age: 44 Posts: 637	Mac Emulation Hi I'm interested in Emulating a "Classic Mac" On my A1200.I know there are one or two people on here who have had much success. I intend using OS 8.1 which is about as far as I beleive I can go with my 68060 (non PPC) I have managed to get a copy of Fusion 3.2C from the zone and I am now wondering which is the best rom to use? I have read from various sourcess that on an 060 Amiga, the 1MB rom "macs" can be emulated, but know little else. I am not asking for people to supply rom images. All I am asking is "What have you successfully emulated?" The third prong to my question is, can this all be setup in Winuae? Reason being that the CF I run in My 1200 also works perfectly fine in Winuae... as an 060 Amiga, since my "Hardware build" is currently in progress, and basically I want something to faff around with Why ?... Because I can, or at least I think I can. I plan for my Blizzard card to have 256MB on it so memory wont be an issue. Any input/advice apreciated. Andrew

02 November 2009, 04:17	#3
gulliver BoingBagged Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The South of nowhere Age: 46 Posts: 2,358	Hi, i have emuated MACs on my Amiga and this is what i can tell you from my experience: -Use if possible a 1MB Quadra ROM -Use either Fusion 3.2 or Shapeshifter 3.11 -MacOS 8.1 is nice but 7.6.1 is twice faster & more stable -Go to http://main.system7today.com/ to get information, programs and games to run An emulated mac is good for: -Using desktop publishing and image processing apps -Runing games -Using some NLE video editors such as QuickFli, Premiere and Videoshop -Using MS Office stuff, like Excel, Word and Powerpoint -And of course for playing with a different OS and surfing the internet. Speaking about internet on emulated Macs: -There is a Twitter client program -Netscape 4.08 works really well -iCab 2.99 is a browser with CSS support -You can use older but functional Flash v3 Any other question just ask! Good luck! Of course you can use WinUAE to run Mac emulation! I used not too long ago an A1200 040 64MB to run those emulators. Last edited by gulliver; 02 November 2009 at 04:27.

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01 November 2009, 23:21	#2
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	Hi Andrew, I'm not very familaiar with Mac emulation on the Amiga. I own several Macs and emulation, when I need it, is carried out in DOS/Windows on a PC. However, there are several common features between Mac emulation on a PC and an Amiga. This site can provide all the ROM and disk images you will need for successful Mac emulation on any platform. In particular, ROMs are available here: http://nbbemulation.free.fr/forum_ma...opic.php?id=69 Several 1MB ROMs are listed, but I would advise you to go with the Quadra 700-900 ROM for Mac OS 8. I would recommend that you download Macintosh System 7.1.2 disk images for the Quadra from here to get started with the emulator. The disk images you will need are the following: Additions.image.sit.bin Disk_Tools.image.sit.bin Goodies.image.sit.bin InstallMeFirst.image.sit.bin Printing_Fonts.image.sit.bin A useful addition to your toolbox for Mac emulation on the Amiga is CrossMAC. Versions of this software have been uploaded to the Zone on occasions, so you will probably find one on the EAB File Server. I will stop here so that you don't have to wait all night for a reply! If you have any specific questions, please feel free to ask.

02 November 2009, 11:38	#4
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	Theres a ShapeShifter HDF ready to run with all the nescerray files to boot Mac OS 7.. this can then be copied over to a real Amiga -Its only about 6mb if you want ill Zone it.

02 November 2009, 23:16	#6
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	Hi Andrew, I have a copy of the hardfile originally uploaded by Boo Boo. I've Zoned it for you.

03 November 2009, 02:16	#7
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	Yep thanks prowler -The HDF QuickStart A1200 + JIT + 8Mb Fast Enable Shapeshifter Suport under Roms on WinUae - Or on real Amiga add something like "PrepareEmul A1200" to your startup-sequence There were? some ADFs of Apps like Work, Excel somewhere on the EAB file server your need crossmac for these.

19 November 2009, 08:02	#9
klapdeur Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Almere/Holland Posts: 50	Hi asm1 wel im running a mac on my A4000 060 with shapeshifter the last one that was made because this one has good cd support im running mac os 8.0 (8.1 has some problems that freezes the amiga) it runs great at full speed here using cybergraphx. shapeshifter is better then fusion at the emulation part i tried fusion and ifusion and shapeshifter shapeshifter came out as the fastest. you can get it from the net search for shapeshifter 3.11 if you cant find i will make an archive from mine and upload it for ya. gr klapdeur

26 January 2010, 03:30	#11
asm1 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Age: 44 Posts: 637	Resurrecting this thread again.... Have successfully got a 32MB "Mac" running in Winuae thanks to prowler's system 7.01 in colour too. When I start shapeshifter I get several errors: (emu10kx.audio) Unable to open 'openpci.library' version 1 (maestropro.audio request) Couldn't open maestix.library V36 (Toccata.audio) Cannot open 'toccata.library' v12 Now I understand that these are probably to do with sound emulation and since I am running under winuae, I suspect that something might be needing tweaked. I have enabled "shapeshifter support" under ROMS in winuae.

26 January 2010, 09:25	#12
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	They look like librarys for AHI Soundcard?

26 January 2010, 21:08	#13
Madcrow Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 228	Has anyone compared the performance of WinUAE running a Mac Emulator with the performance of native PC Mac emulator such as Basilisk II? It's at least possible that WinUAE's RTG performance and more-recently updated 68k emulation code might give it a performance advatage of a "native" solution, but absent any numbers to prove such I thing, I don't know... For real hardware, Mac emulation is certainly a cool thing to do though, as the fact that both systems used the same CPU family means that Amiga Mac emulators are actually virtualizing the CPU (which gives near-native performance) rather than emulating it! That means that even a basic 1200 with a stock 8 MB RAM expansion can be a great system to use classic Mac-based productivity software with. By the time you get to 060-upgraded Amiga, you've got a system that puts not only all the 68K Mac, but evenmost of the first-gen PPC Macs to shame speed-wise.

26 January 2010, 23:07	#16
Fabie Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: France Posts: 478	asm1, I think that shape shifter want that libraries because you have made a bad installation of AHI Im sure When you installed AHI you have selected all the amiga sound cards....so shapeshifter thinks that you have lots of soundcards I suggest that you unistall AHI and install it again

27 January 2010, 19:56	#18
asm1 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Age: 44 Posts: 637	I wasnt aware I had installed AHI All i am working with is cwb os 3.9. Any AHI installed will be in that or BB3. Might be that it is looking for old version. Ty for tips

31 January 2010, 04:29	#19
asm1 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Age: 44 Posts: 637	Havent done the "fixes" for the amiga side dependencies (lazy) But have managed to get Os 7.55 up and running I would like to get 7.6 going. The version I have (us) installs fine but when I boot it, I get to the Mac OS start up screen which goes for about a second then "black screen" crashes the Amiga (Winuae) I'm no expert, Winuae is generating a dump file... I'm having trouble getting CDroms going in shapeshifter under Winuae (is it possible?) so it could be that the download of 7.6 I have is bad. Must fix the dependencies... might be half the prob. Off to bed, been fiddling far too long

31 January 2010, 12:32	#20
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	You add uaescsi.device or something Or you could set up your Mac HardFile under Basilisk as the hardfiles are compatible.

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